Bosch performance Line CX intermittent motor cut rears it’s ugly head again.

[The EMF]

Hi all, my intermittent motor cut off problems have resurfaced with error code 501.
This first happened on a trip out in the Howgills with @The Hodge on Aug 4th, a wet ride to be honest. So after a firmware upgrade and diagnostic check to reset fault codes not shown on the Purion no other fault could be found ( at least the problem was recorded with Bosch)
This left an uneasy feeling with me but I’ve ridden locally, the Lake District, The Cheviots and one particular mud plugging 20 miler in the deepest sleck and puddles I could find as fast as I could ride through them as to try and replicate the fault but after about 100 miles of hard riding I thought great all seams fine.
Yesterday along a very scenic dry road climb along the Breamish Valley and up into the hills on sketchy
double ply tracks the fault came back. So a tough return to the car with a mixture of granny ring pedalling, pushing and spells on the portable Iron Lung that I’ve added to my back pack I’m somewhat resigned to another trip to the Lbs for a very long winded Bosch diagnostic process along with fact that the motor was out of warranty in July I’m feeling glum and saddened by what could be a long time off the bike and probably a huge bill for my 2020 Great Whyte E150-RS having only covered 2300 miles……….ho hum

 

[The Hodge]

Let's hope it's not as bad as you fear ..and you are up & running again very quickly .
For the benefit of anyone else reading this ..we both got the same error code within minutes of each other on that Howgills ride ..and just like The EMF ..my motor seemed to fix itself too..
I'm feeling a little trepidation as although my motor is still working OK..I was out of warranty on 1st October ( yesterday ) ..so I hope the curse of the 501 error code is not co.ing back to haunt me too

 

[Mikerb]

The most vulnerable component is the Purion especially after a couple of years, because it is completely exposed and is subject to constant use on every ride. I would just replace it and see if that resolves the issue. Any water ingress or even accumulation of the effects of humidity will eventually damage the contacts inside and it is none serviceable, so worth replacing after a while.
I do not have a lot of faith in error codes. A fault that "fixes itself" is much more likely to be due to electrical contacts than any solid state componetry. The purion has contacts and the battery to harness is of course electrical contacts.

 

[The EMF]

Thanks for reply @Mikerb, are the Purion controller a Whyte spare part of just a generic control unit?

I’ve just looked on the internet so looks like a easy to source part

Thanks

 

[Mikerb]

Thanks for reply @Mikerb, are the Purion controller a Whyte spare part of just a generic control unit?

I’ve just looked on the internet so looks like a easy to source part

Thanks

Its a Bosch component so available from any Bosch Ebike parts stockist. Note it also requires 2 off CR2016 button cell batteries. The Purion is the Controller on the system. It is battery operated and those batteries are not charged by the system so need changing after a couple of year. Its first function is to switch the system on. As you know that button is on the leading edge of the purion and pretty vulnerable in wet conditions ( I use a cover on my Purion to give it a bit extra protection). The same switch turns the system off. Note however if the Purion merely has dicharged batteries you should be a ble to start the bike by using the on/off button on the battery.
Seems to me if you are sure your main battery connections are good, the Purion is the obvious next place to look....unfortunately only possible by buying another or borrowing someone else's (maybe the Hodge's when he is not looking )

 

[The EMF]

I would try to get the Hodges Purion but I think his has the same symptoms as my controller

 

[Tribey]

Does you speed reading change briefly when you get the motor cut?

I had those symptoms, no fault codes present, but LBS diagnosed a faulty speed sensor/cable. Fixed under warranty, no further issues in the following 18 months.

 

[The EMF]

Does you speed reading change briefly when you get the motor cut?

I had those symptoms, no fault codes present, but LBS diagnosed a faulty speed sensor/cable. Fixed under warranty, no further issues in the following 18 months.

Unfortunately no……the Purion just switched itself off. When the Purion restarted the default mode it switched on to was “Tour” mode, it would give power to the motor for another 30 seconds and then switch off again. The bike is back with the supplying Lbs going through the Bosch fault diagnostic process…… it’s been 3 weeks and no further forward .
The bike is 2 months out of warranty

 

[yorkshire89]

Unfortunately no……the Purion just switched itself off. When the Purion restarted the default mode it switched on to was “Tour” mode, it would give power to the motor for another 30 seconds and then switch off again. The bike is back with the supplying Lbs going through the Bosch fault diagnostic process…… it’s been 3 weeks and no further forward .
The bike is 2 months out of warranty

I've had similar happen when I've had a crash and broken my Kiox off it's mount. I could push the connectors back together and turn the bike on but because it was losing connection when I started riding it would turn back off again 30 seconds later and I'd just have to repeat until I got back.

It sounds to me like it's a dodgy connection so I'd check where it connects to the motor. If it all looks good and there's no corrosion I'd try a new Purion.

 

[The EMF]

I've had similar happen when I've had a crash and broken my Kiox off it's mount. I could push the connectors back together and turn the bike on but because it was losing connection when I started riding it would turn back off again 30 seconds later and I'd just have to repeat until I got back.

It sounds to me like it's a dodgy connection so I'd check where it connects to the motor. If it all looks good and there's no corrosion I'd try a new Purion.

Thanks for that @yorkshire89. @Mikerb suggested the same fix. When I spoke to the LBS last week there were numerous motor and battery fault codes evident on the diagnostic analysis. All the connections and plugs were in good order and they’ve cleaned them just for good measure ( I checked out the connections before taking the bike to the shop ) still not resolved so I’m stuck in their diagnostic process for now.
Thanks for reply’s

 

[yorkshire89]

Have they passed the diagnostic report back to Bosch? I've heard a few stories of Bosch helping people out after their warranty has expired, so hopefully they can resolve this for you.

 

[The EMF]

Have they passed the diagnostic report back to Bosch? I've heard a few stories of Bosch helping people out after their warranty has expired, so hopefully they can resolve this for you.

That’s why the bike is back at he Lbs where I purchased my E150 RS, they are a Whyte main dealership. I hope they have been in contact with Bosch as they said it’s in the Bosch system now
So fingers crossed

 

[Mikerb]

The problem with the software diagnosis is that it diagnoses very little in fact but does give a history of what you already know...which is unexpected shutdowns. So what happens is Bosch suggests a series of component changeouts...but only one at a time! To be honest if it is out of warranty you re better sorting it yourself.
For electrical faults on an ebike system the most common reason for power loss is any electrical connection. Obviously most of those are cable connectors but there is also the battery connector .All are easy to clean and check. The only other connections are "switches". In this case the only component with a switch is the Purion....and it is non serviceable. So changing it is the only way to prove or disprove if it is responsible.
If a system cuts out intermittently when riding it certainly suggest a bad connection, which as I said above could be within the Purion assuming all other connections have been checked.
If however a system powers up but then switches off after a few seconds, and that is a permanent state of affairs, it suggests the power supply is OK but that the system failed to successfully complete its boot up procedure which largely consists of the controller ( Purion) checking that all components required to enable the function of the bike are working. note that failure could still be within the Purion but there is one other potential culprit and that is the speed sensor cable. The reason the speed sensor cable could be faulty is that it has to withstand the movement of the rear triangle and is exposed between the chainstay and where it enters the motor covers area. It could therefore be externally damaged or the cnductor could fractured due to the constant flex.
Certainly worth changing that first............and then the Purion if that makes no difference.

 

[The EMF]

The problem with the software diagnosis is that it diagnoses very little in fact but does give a history of what you already know...which is unexpected shutdowns. So what happens is Bosch suggests a series of component changeouts...but only one at a time! To be honest if it is out of warranty you re better sorting it yourself.
For electrical faults on an ebike system the most common reason for power loss is any electrical connection. Obviously most of those are cable connectors but there is also the battery connector .All are easy to clean and check. The only other connections are "switches". In this case the only component with a switch is the Purion....and it is non serviceable. So changing it is the only way to prove or disprove if it is responsible.
If a system cuts out intermittently when riding it certainly suggest a bad connection, which as I said above could be within the Purion assuming all other connections have been checked.
If however a system powers up but then switches off after a few seconds, and that is a permanent state of affairs, it suggests the power supply is OK but that the system failed to successfully complete its boot up procedure which largely consists of the controller ( Purion) checking that all components required to enable the function of the bike are working. note that failure could still be within the Purion but there is one other potential culprit and that is the speed sensor cable. The reason the speed sensor cable could be faulty is that it has to withstand the movement of the rear triangle and is exposed between the chainstay and where it enters the motor covers area. It could therefore be externally damaged or the cnductor could fractured due to the constant flex.
Certainly worth changing that first............and then the Purion if that makes no difference.

Morning @Mikerb
Thanks for another thorough and sound explanation for the faults on electronic side of things and I’m in full agreement. The motor is very quiet and performs as it should when running……..I’m going to speak to the Lbs.
I really appreciate the time and effort you’ve shown over my problem.
Thanks mate

 

[The EMF]

Bike back from the Lbs today……Bosch replaced the motor even though the bike is 3 months out of warranty, had to pay a labour charge for swapping the motor out. I’m well pleased great service from Bosch and the Lbs……
I’ll be back on the trails next week
Hooray, I’ve missed being out

 

[The Hodge]

I was due to meet up with the boys last Saturday for a ride and was up early 6.00am to give my bike the once over as having stated previously on this thread I had the same fault code as @The EMF ..within 5mins of his error code on the same ride in The Howgills..
I switched on the Purion display and it powered up showing all 5 bars switched off then on again just to be certain and ..nothing ..zilch ..kaput ..fuck all.
Had a cup of coffee and contacted the lads with my tale of woe and my no show and while speaking to The EMF thought I would try switching on again ..and bugger me but it did ( great excitement) then just to make sure off then back on again ..and it chuffing didn't..grrrrr!!
The decision taken right then to contact the shop( Wheelbase , Staveley) when it opened at 9.00am .
I'd previously contacted them when the fault code originally occurred ( 501) and had spoken to Adrian in the workshop..but the bike was now just over one month out of warranty ..however to my relief I was asked to bring the bike straight down ( 2.5 hour drive) and a diagnostic check would be done & forwarded to Bosch on Monday ..while there the Purion display was plugged in and one of the codes thrown up was something to do with cadence which Adrian said he hadn't seen before...so with fingers crossed and a prayer to the great emountain bike gods in the sky I returned home ..
Fast forward to Tuesday this week and an email from Adrian to say that Bosch had agreed to a warranty replacement of the motor ...
To say that I'm a happy chappy would be an understatement ..hopefully getting the bike back in a week or so when a ride out of Staveley is on the cards with Wayne & Jaco ..
A HUGE thanks from me to Adrian at Wheelbase & not least to Bosch for excellent customer service