Alan wolfe
Member
Just had my bike serviced got this for my motor good to c if buying second hand if it's ever been chipped are not.just stop all those people that are deristricted them that it voids us warrany
Bosch motor service print off
- Thread starter Alan wolfe
- Start date
Old Mike
Member
Where does it show if its been chipped?
Sportsman
Member
Thats nonsense no way of telling sorry 
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Afraid its not, if they think you had derestricted it they will refuse the warranty, and its pretty obvious on all the major manufacturers diagnostic software when things like 0 unassisted miles show up, or battery drain vs mileage show a discrepancy.Thats nonsense no way of telling sorry
Several people have fallen foul of this.
Alan wolfe
Member
- Thread starter
- #6
Yep when was in shop told just done bike last week only 6 months old had tell person his warranty was now void cause used some chip on bike
Alan wolfe
Member
- Thread starter
- #7
In distance at bottom on pie chart it comes up with discrepancies on modes.so if bike is chipped kiss goodbye to warranty
Alan wolfe
Member
- Thread starter
- #8
I thought they would not be able to tell but but shop said done few bikes now told customers that warranty is void. Glad never chipped mine besides 15.5 mph is fast enough
Alan wolfe
Member
- Thread starter
- #9
This is only with bosch motor not sure about rest so it's up to yourself if chip it most motors have diagnostic software so prob can tell on rest my advise is if want keep warranty don't chip it.until it runs out that is lol
Rusty
E*POWAH BOSS
I am not so sure about that. Unless they have some other way of proving a motor has been chipped distance without assistance is not a way to prove anything.
I have a friend and his wife with the exact same bike - both with 2000km give or take a couple. They always ride together and the discrepancy in mileage is John doubling back if he has accidentally dropped Jean. When they decided to upgrade last month they got a similar print-out. John showed about 380km without assistance but Jean only showed 30 or 40km.
Why? Because she was always using assist to stay with John.
Refusing a warranty claim based on those charts is a sure way to a decent law-suit.
I have a friend and his wife with the exact same bike - both with 2000km give or take a couple. They always ride together and the discrepancy in mileage is John doubling back if he has accidentally dropped Jean. When they decided to upgrade last month they got a similar print-out. John showed about 380km without assistance but Jean only showed 30 or 40km.
Why? Because she was always using assist to stay with John.
Refusing a warranty claim based on those charts is a sure way to a decent law-suit.
Sportsman
Member
Excuse me but this pie charts says your bike is chipped your warranty is void
Marke
Member
You'd think bosch would be concerned about class action lawsuits and the damage to their reputation associated with renaging on warranties. The above doesn't conclusively prove anything. I'm calling bs until someone posts they been denied warranty due to chipping
Will Ridealpine
New Member
Have you tried the new Bosch? Maybe @Rob Hancill has? Wondering how much quieter it is than last years version?
Marke
Member
No going to buy one as bosch will probably just use any old excuse to get out of ponying up for warranty work
Is not just Bosch, its across that brands where people have been refused warranties if they suspect the bike has been chipped.No going to buy one as bosch will probably just use any old excuse to get out of ponying up for warranty work
Marke
Member
Let's see some evidence of a bosch refusal. You must be able to cite at least one case. Otherwise its bs
Will Ridealpine
New Member
Yep, just dont chip it. I think they top out factory set at 20 mph., thats good enough for the trail riding, only would need more for road riding in my nekc of the woods from experience. Plus, with the new Bosh 2020, the top end wall of 20 mph is not supposed to be even noticeable. If it is quieter than last years, then thats great. Would you rather have a new 2020 Kenevo with whatever motor that will have or a 2020 Trek Rail with the new bosch?
Will Ridealpine
New Member
Yep, last years boshe had more of a wall at top end they say and this years is way better so no need to do that now days. You should not derestrict anything because if there is an accident then when people find out that you modified it and its deemed your not supposed to with that model, your shot.
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Will Ridealpine
New Member
Yep
Rusty
E*POWAH BOSS
Only a carpark ride but seemed much quieter. Not as quiet as my Levo but quieter than my Scott with the Shimano.
I dont need to site evidence, its just a plain fact that if they think you have tinkered with the restriction or modified the motor they won't warranty it, no company is going to hand over a 1k motor fro free if they dont have to - if they pick up on it or not is a different matter.
With the Bosch system you have to derestict it via tricking the motor into thinking you are going at a lower speed than you are, which means they have to rely on an anomaly in the service record - according to mechanics I know they can nearly always tell if its been modified, but only prove it if the data shows compelling evidence.
With Shimano and Brose (in the Levo) you can change the software with third party apps, and this can be picked up on by the manufacturer as they can tell if the software has been fiddled with/replaced, so I would be wary of doing so.
However its down to the dealer handling the warranty claim to report any suspicions, and as most LBS's dont want to loose business many will turn a blind eye, I also know that in the case of Specilized some of their own riders use bLevo, and I know several of the pros you see round Surrey Hills have derestricted their various brands of motor.
My point is you are taking a risk if you blow your motor and it has been derestricted, but that's you choice, and I believe its up to individuals if they want to do so or not.
Rusty
E*POWAH BOSS
None of the various hacks I have seen so-far do anything but work around an arbitary number. Changing the speed a motor will assist to does not make a motor susceptible to blowing - that is bad design and poor quality components. A design engineer working on one particular brand advised me that they can run double the peak output of their motor for several hours with no issues.
Exactly.
Will Ridealpine
New Member
Nice, let us know what it’s sounding like on the trails compared to the Levo, etc. going to decide between the new 2020 Kenevo or Trek Rail.
Actually when I run a diagnostic on any Bosch motor there is a place where it says Tampering if it says yes next to it, warranty is voided.
The EU handed down regulations to the manufacturers that they must have a way of detecting tampering and derestriction to be in compliance. It’s not just Bosch and it wasn’t their idea. Most Levo motor replacements I have seen in my shop were due to shredded belts. What most of these bikes have had in common is the use of the BLEvo app. The belt doesn’t hold up when the motor is tasked with going more than 30mph.
I check the settings with the BLEvo app first before plugging the bike into the Turbo Studio diagnostic software. I’ll call the customer and ask them if they use BLEvo. They usually lie to me and when I plug the bike into the diagnostic tool, it pops up on the screen that minimum wheel circumference is below the legal limit.
After that it’s a motor swap charged to the customer. Specialized does show mercy in that you can get a motor for half price under their crash replacement policy.
The EU handed down regulations to the manufacturers that they must have a way of detecting tampering and derestriction to be in compliance. It’s not just Bosch and it wasn’t their idea. Most Levo motor replacements I have seen in my shop were due to shredded belts. What most of these bikes have had in common is the use of the BLEvo app. The belt doesn’t hold up when the motor is tasked with going more than 30mph.
I check the settings with the BLEvo app first before plugging the bike into the Turbo Studio diagnostic software. I’ll call the customer and ask them if they use BLEvo. They usually lie to me and when I plug the bike into the diagnostic tool, it pops up on the screen that minimum wheel circumference is below the legal limit.
After that it’s a motor swap charged to the customer. Specialized does show mercy in that you can get a motor for half price under their crash replacement policy.
Will Ridealpine
New Member
Yep, don’t know why you need to pedal faster than 20mph on the trails anyway, can save that for when going down hill. The new bosch must max out at 20mph and with less resistance when reaching it, if I am right, maybe its quieter, have you listened to one?
Marke
Member
Actually this thread is about bosch motors not levos. I dont beleive this tampering diagnostic flag exists for bosch. Why don't you post up a picture? Someone somewhere must have had a warranty claim rejected if it exists. Smells like more bs to me.
Actually, I run a bike shop that sells a lot of Emtbs and I perform all of the service. I am a Bosch certified factory technician with all of the Bosch specific tools and diagnostic software.
When I was being trained at Bosch, they told me about the EU regulations while I was being trained. I was also taught the proper protocol to follow if I encounter a motor that has been tampered with. I have never encountered one in person outside of the Bosch service facility where they used one for an example.
I will post a picture when I am back in my workshop tomorrow morning, even though I shouldn’t have to, since you are offering no evidence to the contrary.
I only used the Levo example to explain that’s not just Bosch that has tampering detection. Sorry if you took offense, but that is really no concern of mine, now is it?
But if you like, you could always hit the ignore button on my profile and continue to make irresponsible speculations you have no evidence to support.
I will never understand the mentality that feels entitled to a warranty after it’s terms have been violated and it’s somehow justified for the manufacturer and dealer to endure the costs.
Have I used a cheat app on my Ebike? Yes
Have I used a cheat device on my Ebike? Yes
But when the motor finally shit the bed, I accepted my accountability and never tried make someone else pay for a replacement.
I suspect derestriction won’t be an issue much longer. With the federal government allowing Class 1,2 and 3 Ebikes to be used on all federal land, the manufacturers will be able to update Ebikes to travel at 28mph instead of 20mph. It will be almost double what it is Europe
Rusty
E*POWAH BOSS
From a purely legal point of view, as discussed with a lawyer who specializes in product warranties in the IT industry .... Without a policy that has the dealer verbally and verifiable advising a purchaser that any modifications to the motor or control software could void any warranty explicit or implied or the buyer signs an agreement that to perform modifications could/would void warranty it is a very big grey area.
His advice is that in most markets a counter argument could be brought up about whether or not the motor was fit for purpose would be completely justifiable - especially taking into account the large numbers of documented failures.
If the motor or control units had Warranty Seals that would go a huge way to justifying some failures but as he pointed out - on computers these stickers have been deemed to be outside the terms of fair warranty if they have been broken by a certified specialist.
Of course, in that socialist nanny state cesspit that is the EU there is a good chance if you protested a warranty claim failure some watchdog or another would have you in front of a tribunal for circumventing their arbitrary numbers.
His advice is that in most markets a counter argument could be brought up about whether or not the motor was fit for purpose would be completely justifiable - especially taking into account the large numbers of documented failures.
If the motor or control units had Warranty Seals that would go a huge way to justifying some failures but as he pointed out - on computers these stickers have been deemed to be outside the terms of fair warranty if they have been broken by a certified specialist.
Of course, in that socialist nanny state cesspit that is the EU there is a good chance if you protested a warranty claim failure some watchdog or another would have you in front of a tribunal for circumventing their arbitrary numbers.
Beekeeper
🍯Honey Monster🍯
My purion display has a USB socket so presumably I can connect this to a laptop and run the diagnostic software and see that pretty pie chart in the comfort of my own home. Then I can see for myself how my bike is tracking my every move
My next question is how can I obtain the diagnostic software for my PC?
Don’t tell me, Bosch only allow trained technicians access to it???
Or is it actually available to us mere mortals? I mean we are not doing anything illegal, we just want to know what data our bike has on us ?
Surely we can have that under GDPR rules??
Hey e-bike, what data you got on me??
My next question is how can I obtain the diagnostic software for my PC?
Don’t tell me, Bosch only allow trained technicians access to it???
Or is it actually available to us mere mortals? I mean we are not doing anything illegal, we just want to know what data our bike has on us ?
Surely we can have that under GDPR rules??
Hey e-bike, what data you got on me??
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