BLEvo Game Over (with MasterMind TCU)

[PaoloBLEvo]

@PaoloBLEvo Could you modify Blevo a bit ? (I know there's a whole thread on that).

At the moment when you run it and record a ride with no bike connected, all the fields are blank (the map still works).

Could you make it so the none bike fields still work, speed, altitude, heart rates and so on ?

Then people with Masterminds could still use it for some of it's functionality (not heart rate controlled speed or anything motor/battery related) but a lot of that is available on the mastermind anyway.

It might also be the beginnings for Blevo to branch out and not be just for Spesh bikes ? People can use it for ride tracking, mapping and so on like RidewithGPS for example (where you have to subscribe to get Strava upload capability).

Sorry but you can use BLEvo without the bike connected (like with the MasterMind TCU). Just select the speed and KM from GPS and not from the bike.. Obviusly you will not get the battery and assistance value from the bike..

 

[PaoloBLEvo]

The other thing to consider in all of this, is that the Motor and TCU hardware and firmware design would be the intellectual property of Brose in Switzerland. There would be some coordination of function and design between Brose and Specialized, but if Brose decides to close the communication protocol of Mastermind for reasons of its own, Specialized would have to wear that. Brose may have decided that closing the BLE protocol is a further enhancement to IP protection against copying by other parties, for example.

I guess that only time will tell if this is going to significantly affect sales of new bikes with the Mastermind TCU. That will be be the metric that Specialized will be watching closely. I am pretty happy with my 2019 Levo, and although the extra features of the Mastermind are attractive, am not considering upgrading any time soon. Even less so after discovering this bombshell.

Pretty much every Levo/Kenevo etc. rider who has used BLEVo agrees that it leaves Mission Control in the dust for presentation, usability, function etc. etc... Specialized may find themselves in the position that if they want to claw market share back with Mastermind closed architecture, they will need a SERIOUS re-write of Mission Control. Their IT developers are somewhat lacking in this department.

The protocol from Brose and the TCU is not yet cripted.. Only bluetooth protocol..
The interesting feature of the masterMind TCU is the micro tune, but you can do also with BLEvo..

 

[PaoloBLEvo]

@PaoloBLEvo have you looked into using the same encryption in the app that spesh use in the mission control app? Figuring out how they encrypt it on the app side shouldn’t be that hard. It’s not magic just decompile the app and take a look.

I know that I can do like this, but it is illegal..

 

[#mitch]

I know that I can do like this, but it is illegal..

Is it actually illegal? I’m no lawyer but I don’t see what would be illegal about it. Encryption protocols are generic nothing special there. Buy hey if you don’t want to risk it I totally understand.

 

[PaoloBLEvo]

Is it actually illegal? I’m no lawyer but I don’t see what would be illegal about it. Encryption protocols are generic nothing special there. Buy hey if you don’t want to risk it I totally understand.

I'm not a lawyer too, but I asked to someone who told me that the reverse engineering of an app is not totally legal.. But I can try to ask to Specialized if this can be a risk for me..
But they encrypted the protocol in order to use only Mission Control..for better service...
I think they will not be happy if BLEvo will continue to work also on MasterMind TCU

 

[Zimmerframe]

Sorry but you can use BLEvo without the bike connected (like with the MasterMind TCU). Just select the speed and KM from GPS and not from the bike.. Obviusly you will not get the battery and assistance value from the bike..

Thanks Paolo .. You made me investigate further

As far as I was concerned I had it set like that :

With the display configured like this :

And all the fields .. Except - They all just come up blank when you ride.

Then I noticed at the bottom, there's another section I've never seen before .. "Date fields available with no bike connected" - So I've populated them and will give it a try later. I'm guessing a lot of people haven't noticed that section and are unaware you need to populate those fields separately - for instance if you wanted to use Blevo for mapping etc with a Mastermind equipped bike.

 

[PaoloBLEvo]

Thanks Paolo .. You made me investigate further

As far as I was concerned I had it set like that :

View attachment 71360

With the display configured like this :

View attachment 71361

And all the fields .. Except - They all just come up blank when you ride.

View attachment 71362

Then I noticed at the bottom, there's another section I've never seen before .. "Date fields available with no bike connected" - So I've populated them and will give it a try later. I'm guessing a lot of people haven't noticed that section and are unaware you need to populate those fields separately - for instance if you wanted to use Blevo for mapping etc with a Mastermind equipped bike.

View attachment 71363

I did the separate display configuration because some users asked to me the possibility to used BLEvo with eBike and with normal bike, without changing the configuration every time...
So now you can enjoy with BLEvo also with Levo 2022.. (but non as before...)

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

I did the separate display configuration because some users asked to me the possibility to used BLEvo with eBike and with normal bike, without changing the configuration every time...
So now you can enjoy with BLEvo also with Levo 2022.. (but non as before...)

Non BLEvo related… but I see a huge opportunity if you ever wanted to produce a minimalist Bosch handlebar controller! I’m sure someone like you could make this happen!

You can even call it Bish Bash ?

 

[PaoloBLEvo]

Non BLEvo related… but I see a huge opportunity if you ever wanted to produce a minimalist Bosch handlebar controller! I’m sure someone like you could make this happen!

You can even call it Bish Bash ?

Are you sure that the Bosch system can send the information via Bluetooth? Is the protocol open? Do you have more information about it?

 

[PaoloBLEvo]

I just released the version 3.10.0 of BLEvo for Android.
One of the important innovations introduced is the management of the data received by the Levociraptor Gen2 to be able to record the ride with BLEvo even if the new TCU MasterMind is used. BLEvo will only work in reading data, so the Smart Power cannot work. Furthermore, the ECO / TRAIL / TURBO assistance levels will not be identified, but only the assistance percentage will be detected.

Let me know if someone is able to test this new feature..

 

[s56wbv]

I am the owner of a new Turbo Expert 2022 that I am not able to connect to BLEVO. Searching the internet, I found this thread. An important part of my decision to pay an unreasonable amount for the e-bike was the BLEVO app. Unfortunately, I didn't do my homework, but I really did not see this coming. Why would bike manufacturer disable the use of sail promotor such as BLEVO? It enables me to accommodate my riding to various riding partners and my training styles. It gives me stats that I need for tracking progress and analyzing rides, this is crucial - biker Wh, bike Wh, percentage of support, power at different stages, and many more. This helped me to enjoy riding and get in shape. MissionControl can not compare, not even close. Currently, I am in considerable shock. When I recover, I will most probably cal my retailer and start discussing the bike's return.

 

[Jersey Skier]

I am the owner of a new Turbo Expert 2022 that I am not able to connect to BLEVO. Searching the internet, I found this thread. An important part of my decision to pay an unreasonable amount for the e-bike was the BLEVO app. Unfortunately, I didn't do my homework, but I really did not see this coming. Why would bike manufacturer disable the use of sail promotor such as BLEVO? It enables me to accommodate my riding to various riding partners and my training styles. It gives me stats that I need for tracking progress and analyzing rides, this is crucial - biker Wh, bike Wh, percentage of support, power at different stages, and many more. This helped me to enjoy riding and get in shape. MissionControl can not compare, not even close. Currently, I am in considerable shock. When I recover, I will most probably cal my retailer and start discussing the bike's return.

I agree with everything you said. Just know the bikes are still a blast to ride without Blevo. I just use the remote alot more.

 

[PaoloBLEvo]

I am the owner of a new Turbo Expert 2022 that I am not able to connect to BLEVO. Searching the internet, I found this thread. An important part of my decision to pay an unreasonable amount for the e-bike was the BLEVO app. Unfortunately, I didn't do my homework, but I really did not see this coming. Why would bike manufacturer disable the use of sail promotor such as BLEVO? It enables me to accommodate my riding to various riding partners and my training styles. It gives me stats that I need for tracking progress and analyzing rides, this is crucial - biker Wh, bike Wh, percentage of support, power at different stages, and many more. This helped me to enjoy riding and get in shape. MissionControl can not compare, not even close. Currently, I am in considerable shock. When I recover, I will most probably cal my retailer and start discussing the bike's return.

What I can suggest to you is to buy the OLD TCU and continue to ride with BLEvo.. Specialized wants to have to complete control of all their bike. If the rider uses BLEvo, they cannot control the statistics of the bike.
I asked to Specialized to have the possibility to run BLEvo in "read-only mode", but they don't want to share any information about the new Bluetooth protocol.
I'm very sad for this decision... Not for the money that I will no longer earn, but for the users who like to have all the information provided by BLEvo and now are not more available...

 

[ruppia]

I am the owner of a new Turbo Expert 2022 that I am not able to connect to BLEVO. Searching the internet, I found this thread. An important part of my decision to pay an unreasonable amount for the e-bike was the BLEVO app. Unfortunately, I didn't do my homework, but I really did not see this coming. Why would bike manufacturer disable the use of sail promotor such as BLEVO? It enables me to accommodate my riding to various riding partners and my training styles. It gives me stats that I need for tracking progress and analyzing rides, this is crucial - biker Wh, bike Wh, percentage of support, power at different stages, and many more. This helped me to enjoy riding and get in shape. MissionControl can not compare, not even close. Currently, I am in considerable shock. When I recover, I will most probably cal my retailer and start discussing the bike's return.

I'm using the old TCU with great plesure. Consider this before give back

 

[HugoPolog40]

Hi Paolo,

I purchased a Turbo Levo Comp Alloy 2022, Gen3 engine, but with the same MCU as the Gen2, I'm not sure if the BLEVO app will work. I read your discussion regarding compatibility on the new models, and I am in doubt considering that the 2 new models in Alloy will come with the previous MCU. I await your feedback.

 

[PaoloBLEvo]

Hi Paolo,

I purchased a Turbo Levo Comp Alloy 2022, Gen3 engine, but with the same MCU as the Gen2, I'm not sure if the BLEVO app will work. I read your discussion regarding compatibility on the new models, and I am in doubt considering that the 2 new models in Alloy will come with the previous MCU. I await your feedback.

If the TCU has only the LEDs, BLEvo will work correctly..

If the TCU has the display, BLEvo will NOT work

 

[Repsol]

Just seen this thread and read it's entirely. I'm absolutely gutted to discover this after purchasing the new gen3 2022 levo comp carbon. I'm glad in a way that I have seen this as I was about to purchase the levociraptor.
So to derestrict bikes with this new mastermind tcu, what are the options apart from reverting it back to the old tcu? Something I didn't want to have to do as one of the reasons why I bought this model over the alloy was because it had this new tcu and the larger battery.
I'm beginning to think I wish I'd never bought the bike now and I haven't been out on it yet!
That's what you get for customer loyalty and sticking with Specialized again, SHAME ON YOU SPECIALIZED

 

[RebornRider]

So to derestrict bikes with this new mastermind tcu, what are the options apart from reverting it back to the old tcu?

The planetary gear devices may work, unless the new TCU has some logic that compares motor power and cadence with speed or something like that. There are at least 2 guys making a planetary gear products here on the forum.

 

[Frank_Denmark]

If you only ride on private land - you can get the Bikespeed RS.
RS = Real Speed
The setup removes the max speed - and still shows accurate speed and distance
bikespeed - tuning for your pedelec or e-bike

 

[Zimmerframe]

As far as I know the Levociraptor works with the Gen3 :

Blevo can then access the levociraptor for some of the data it can no longer get from the Mastermind TCU (post #70 in this thread - though that mentions the gen2 levociraptor).

Speed and distance shown with the levociraptor in place will be incorrect though on the Mastermind TCU.

 

[Repsol]

This is what it's saying on the levociraptor website regarding the gen3 mastermind tcu.

- Turbo LEVO Gen3 2022 with 2.2 Brose Specialized motor. At this moment Levociraptor will not work with Blevo app on Specialized 2022 Gen3 models.

Does anyone know exactly what other function the levociraptor has other than overriding the limiter?
It seems to me that your not going to be able to get the full advantage of mapping the rest of the bikes motor characteristics with it not working with the BLEvo app.
It may be better fitting the bikespeed RS or plannet 3 instead.

 

[PaoloBLEvo]

This is what it's saying on the levociraptor website regarding the gen3 mastermind tcu.

- Turbo LEVO Gen3 2022 with 2.2 Brose Specialized motor. At this moment Levociraptor will not work with Blevo app on Specialized 2022 Gen3 models.

Does anyone know exactly what other function the levociraptor has other than overriding the limiter?
It seems to me that your not going to be able to get the full advantage of mapping the rest of the bikes motor characteristics with it not working with the BLEvo app.
It may be better fitting the bikespeed RS or plannet 3 instead.

Levociraptor works with MasterMind TCU. BLRvo doesn't work with MasteMind TCU. What you can get with Levociraptor Gen2 and MasterMind TCU is that BLEvo can read out the data and you can see in BLEvo the data from bike (cadence, power, battery, assistant percentage,..).. But BLEvo cannot control the bike like it does with Smart Power.
Where you get this sentence?

Turbo LEVO Gen3 2022 with 2.2 Brose Specialized motor. At this moment Levociraptor will not work with Blevo app on Specialized 2022 Gen3 models.

 

[sebsic]

Levociraptor works with MasterMind TCU. BLRvo doesn't work with MasteMind TCU. What you can get with Levociraptor Gen2 and MasterMind TCU is that BLEvo can read out the data and you can see in BLEvo the data from bike (cadence, power, battery, assistant percentage,..).. But BLEvo cannot control the bike like it does with Smart Power.
Where you get this sentence?

Hi,
Will Blevo be able to show real speed if we set up real wheel circumference ? Or we do have to use GPS speed only ?
Thanks

Edit : this is unclear to me because if BLEvo is able to read the data (false speed from TCU based on data received by levociraptor) BLEvo should be able to correct it, if we configure the real wheel circumference in the app? So why should rely only on the GPS speed?

 

[PaoloBLEvo]

Hi,
Will Blevo be able to show real speed if we set up real wheel circumference ? Or we do have to use GPS speed only ?
Thanks

Edit : this is unclear to me because if BLEvo is able to read the data (false speed from TCU based on data received by levociraptor) BLEvo should be able to correct it, if we configure the real wheel circumference in the app? So why should rely only on the GPS speed?

With BLEvo you can see the correct speed and the correct km. BLEvo corrects the fake speed/km in function of the setup of BLEvo and the real wheel circunference..

 

[sebsic]

With BLEvo you can see the correct speed and the correct km. BLEvo corrects the fake speed/km in function of the setup of BLEvo and the real wheel circunference..

Well I meant with mastermind ... I saw that the Bike setup is not available then

 

[PaoloBLEvo]

Well I meant with mastermind ... I saw that the Bike setup is not available then

you are right.. I have to check if it is possible to change the real wheel circumference also when the bike setup is disabled...

 

[galaga187]

Is there a small rugged Android phone that works well with Blevo please? I don’t need a large screen for mapping.

 

[eagerly]

King Kong mini

 

[Frank_Denmark]

I use the phones from Caterpiller
Link

 

[galaga187]

King Kong mini

I was a bit nervous about googling that on a work computer but it looks good thanks. @eagerly