Bike Prices and Quantum Entanglement

[K78]

I know nothing about bikes, but looking at Porsche values after 3 years of boom is sobering.

Borrowing money is no longer free. It’s going to be a shock for anyone under 35.

 

[irie]

I know nothing about bikes, but looking at Porsche values after 3 years of boom is sobering.

Borrowing money is no longer free. It’s going to be a shock for anyone under 35.

What is sobering about Porsche residuals after 3 years? eBike residuals are far worse.

 

[K78]

What is sobering about Porsche residuals after 3 years? eBike residuals are far worse.

Porsches have enjoyed a lot of appreciation over the last few years.

A decent spec 718 gt4 was 100k this time last year and hard to come by. There are a stack on autotrader from £80k that have sat unsold for a while.

My point was if gt Porsches are taking a battering. Everything is in trouble. Even houses will depreciate this year.

 

[Dave Jenvey Superfan]

Porsches have enjoyed a lot of appreciation over the last few years.

A decent spec 718 gt4 was 100k this time last year and hard to come by. There are a stack on autotrader from £80k that have sat unsold for a while.

My point was if gt Porsches are taking a battering. Everything is in trouble. Even houses will depreciate this year.

I'm in Australia, but I'm not seeing it yet. Haven't been looking at supercars, but with e-mtb's I'm still seeing second hand bikes being listed at outrageous prices and if something goes up cheap it sells instantly.

 

[K78]

I'm in Australia, but I'm not seeing it yet. Haven't been looking at supercars, but with e-mtb's I'm still seeing second hand bikes being listed at outrageous prices and if something goes up cheap it sells instantly.

European performance car prices in Australia are really high compared to the U.K.

Something like a 2018 R8 V10 is double the price in Aus.

Cars have been selling for crazy prices since covid started in the U.K. it’s ground to a halt over Christmas. Im getting calls from car dealers who I bought cars off over 10 years ago so things must be slow.

I know nothing about bike values. I’m watching a couple on eBay(Turbo Levo 2021 and a Whyte E180-RS) now to try and get a idea of demand and what they sell for.

I don’t really like buying anything with a battery second hand, but these bikes are so expensive. It’s impossible to justify for what I’ll use it for.

Sorry for taking this thread off subject.

 

[irie]

Porsches have enjoyed a lot of appreciation over the last few years.

A decent spec 718 gt4 was 100k this time last year and hard to come by. There are a stack on autotrader from £80k that have sat unsold for a while.

My point was if gt Porsches are taking a battering. Everything is in trouble. Even houses will depreciate this year.

With ~10% inflation in the UK anything which does not appreciate by at least 10% will be depreciating.

Don't need Porsches to figure that out.

 

[Mikerb]

Premium car prices are no guide to general market changes.........especially premium cars that are unlikely to feature on company car lists given that the majority of new cars are bought/leased by companies not individual consumers. Private buyers that are prepared to pay £100k for a car are unlikely to be impacted by general cost of living increases.

We have had 2+ years of economic havoc caused by the pandemic and Government responses to it so it should be no surprise that we see the repercussions now.
Sticking to the bike market we know the factors that created a "bull" market..............a combination of the general increase in demand for electric bikes coupled with changes of lifestyle imposed by lockdowns. The result was inflated prices and supply shortages.

These kinds of market turbulence are nothing new if you have been around long enough. Anyone remember mortgage interest rates of 12%??, the housing market crash?? 2008 Global Financial crisis??

 

[K78]

With ~10% inflation in the UK anything which does not appreciate by at least 10% will be depreciating.

Don't need Porsches to figure that out.

Gt3’s have been selling for £100k over list.

There hasn’t been a better investment for the price.

 

[JP-NZ]

I'm in Australia, but I'm not seeing it yet. Haven't been looking at supercars, but with e-mtb's I'm still seeing second hand bikes being listed at outrageous prices and if something goes up cheap it sells instantly.

Same in NZ for EMTB's but we are coming off a REALLY hot market where ALL MTB's including electric have been selling 2nd hand for insane values. Have had numerous mates that owned 2018/19 MTB's and sold them in 21/22 for more than they paid for them.

The market is changing fast and people will soon realise the glory days are over and most bikes should get back to there 2019 values IMO.

 

[Mikerb]

Inflation figures can be very misleading. In the UK we have 2 different measures ( RPI/CPI) each based on a different basket of goods and services and it largely depends how many of those you as a consumer buy. Each measure is also quoted both dynamically ( which is transient) and annual ( which is more meaningful). Inflation is moderated by Interest rates as set by central banks, so assuming you have some investments/savings, your interest income increases as inflation increases. As usual it is the poor that suffer ....and that almost certainly does not include the EMTB customer base!!

 

[irie]

Y’all both way off on the residuals of marrying a woman. You literally have to pay half of your life to get rid of them after they hit a certain age….

Not me, I got a "Clean Break".

 

[Bones]

Premium car prices are no guide to general market changes.........especially premium cars that are unlikely to feature on company car lists given that the majority of new cars are bought/leased by companies not individual consumers. Private buyers that are prepared to pay £100k for a car are unlikely to be impacted by general cost of living increases.

We have had 2+ years of economic havoc caused by the pandemic and Government responses to it so it should be no surprise that we see the repercussions now.
Sticking to the bike market we know the factors that created a "bull" market..............a combination of the general increase in demand for electric bikes coupled with changes of lifestyle imposed by lockdowns. The result was inflated prices and supply shortages.

These kinds of market turbulence are nothing new if you have been around long enough. Anyone remember mortgage interest rates of 12%??, the housing market crash?? 2008 Global Financial crisis??

My mortgage rate was 16% in the 70s

 

[#lazy]

My mortgage rate was 16% in the 70s

But you could buy a house for 3x the average salary back then !

 

[Bones]

1st house a semi bungalow was £7100 and I was earning £22 a week. In them days only my wage was considered. No double glazing or central heating or fancy cars like now.
Now if people don't budget for all the nice things they go on strike and blame the government.

 

[RustyMTB]

1st house a semi bungalow was £7100 and I was earning £22 a week. In them days only my wage was considered. No double glazing or central heating or fancy cars like now.
Now if people don't budget for all the nice things they go on strike and blame the government.

Yeah. that'll be it. Boomers, the great post war beneficiaries pointing fingers

 

[yorkshire89]

1st house a semi bungalow was £7100 and I was earning £22 a week. In them days only my wage was considered. No double glazing or central heating or fancy cars like now.
Now if people don't budget for all the nice things they go on strike and blame the government.

How much is that bungalow worth now?
Would it be still be affordable for someone on an average salary?

 

[Bones]

Double dormer 3 bedroom plus lounge and dining room in Harrogate. Probably around 260k. I sold it for 54k in 1988.

 

[K78]

 

[The Hodge]

Even houses will depreciate this year.

That all depends on which part of the country you live in ..

 

[w2ge]

Wish emtb had more USA followers.. but thats besides the point. Along with besides the point, Porsche and Rolex prices are still crazy and in demand in the US, but are cooling. But even with “cooling” .. still ridiculous.
I don‘t know of any real deals like that Pivot Rob listed at the top here in the US.. I’m gonna start looking! Would love to get the son out riding with me.

 

[K78]

That all depends on which part of the country you live in ..

We will see. 99.9% of property will go down.

 

[Suns_PSD]

Not bike related but I've been watching used Tesla prices here in the US, which are lagging behind the price drops on new ones.
Never- the- less they are losing around $1k/ day of value, going on about 2 weeks now.
The Tesla order backlog is down 85%, in 6 months.
They are not done dropping imo.

 

[SwampNut]

Tesla themselves did a massive price drop on new cars to be able to get the tax credits. This drives used prices down of course. But it didn’t start recently, it started in very early December when all car prices started downward.

Back to bikes, I’ve seen a bunch of deals at local bike shops, in the 20-40% range.

 

[cappuccino34]

Premium car prices are no guide to general market changes.........especially premium cars that are unlikely to feature on company car lists given that the majority of new cars are bought/leased by companies not individual consumers. Private buyers that are prepared to pay £100k for a car are unlikely to be impacted by general cost of living increases.

We have had 2+ years of economic havoc caused by the pandemic and Government responses to it so it should be no surprise that we see the repercussions now.
Sticking to the bike market we know the factors that created a "bull" market..............a combination of the general increase in demand for electric bikes coupled with changes of lifestyle imposed by lockdowns. The result was inflated prices and supply shortages.

These kinds of market turbulence are nothing new if you have been around long enough. Anyone remember mortgage interest rates of 12%??, the housing market crash?? 2008 Global Financial crisis??

My first mortgage in 1991 was 14.7%

Fortunately, it was a small mortgage and got paid off quickly.