Best tyres for mixed use? Help required!

[pagheca]

Hi Folks,

I own a Trek Powerfly 7 FS Large that I use almost every day for commuting but also on quite challenging off-road tracks (stony or muddy mountain trails with difficult passages and steep inclines).

The roads here are very twisty, narrow and sloping. Even to get home from work I have to overcome long 30% inclines and a bit of trails that often put a strain on my (limited... ) skills.

The original Bontrager (XR4 29 x 2.40) on my ebike (with tires) are quite worn out at this point and I am not really happy about them. Finally, I would like to convert to tubeless and try Maxxis.

What models do you guys suggest? I need a lot of grip and agility as this Trek model is not really the best in this regard...

Thanks!

 

[pagheca]

Does nobody at all feel like helping me?

 

[Randy]

My go to tyres are the Michelin Wild/Force combo... They roll well, side wall are robust without weighing a bomb, grip pretty well and progressive and don't wear that fast...

 

[pagheca]

thanks folks! "Ebikeable" trails here are extremely steep and often covered with sharp stones (I'll try to post some photos as soon as I can), as was common in the old days to make it easier for goats and horses to grip. This causes frequent punctures. So, rubber resistance to shear and punctures is essential, and Kevlar tires would presumably be ideal.

Regarding conversion to tubeless, which I have read decreases the likelihood of punctures, do you think it can be done at home? What product do you suggest? I have some manual dexterity and experience with practical work but few tools (I'm renting and have no space for a workshop) and relatively little time to spend.

 

[Bones]

I'd be inclined to fit tyres with a downhill casing and also inserts.
The inserts will allow you to get home should you get a flat tyre.
I'm using specialized tyres with some cheap inserts on my bike.

 

[Montana St Alum]

If your priority is dirt performance, you could go Maxxis Assegai front and back. They're pretty aggressive, though. They hold air well, tubeless and because the tread is closely packed, are okay on roads. A DHRII on the back will climb marginally better but would be unpleasant on roads.
I wouldn't bother with a tubeless conversion unless you're getting lots of flats.
There are tubeless conversion kits (like from Stan's) for non-tubeless ready rims, but not knowing what rims you have, I can't help. I've run tubeless on all of my bikes here in Utah for decades and would never consider going back, but they are really necessary here!
I run a Magic Mary front/Big Betty rear on my ebike, but that's probably not optimum for your needs. I'm also running an Assegai/Dissector combo on my mtb and that is also something that might work, but the Dissector wears pretty fast.
You can run inserts, but it doesn't sound like you need them.

 

[steve_sordy]

Since I went tubeless, I've had loads of punctures, but no flats.
Except for the two tyres that failed at the bead, both manufacturing defects.

100% recommend that you go tubeless. It is easy to do, but if you don't have the space or the time then get your bike shop to do it for you. Pretty much any tire can be made to go tubeless as long as you use a latex sealant.

 

[pagheca]

If your priority is dirt performance, you could go Maxxis Assegai front and back. They're pretty aggressive, though. They hold air well, tubeless and because the tread is closely packed, are okay on roads. A DHRII on the back will climb marginally better but would be unpleasant on roads.
I wouldn't bother with a tubeless conversion unless you're getting lots of flats.
There are tubeless conversion kits (like from Stan's) for non-tubeless ready rims, but not knowing what rims you have, I can't help. I've run tubeless on all of my bikes here in Utah for decades and would never consider going back, but they are really necessary here!
I run a Magic Mary front/Big Betty rear on my ebike, but that's probably not optimum for your needs. I'm also running an Assegai/Dissector combo on my mtb and that is also something that might work, but the Dissector wears pretty fast.
You can run inserts, but it doesn't sound like you need them.

Actually... you know what? The Assegai where my first choice after reading a few reviews over the internet.

And I am getting a lot of flats...

Thanks again to you all!

 

[pagheca]

Since I went tubeless, I've had loads of punctures, but no flats.
Except for the two tyres that failed at the bead, both manufacturing defects.

100% recommend that you go tubeless. It is easy to do, but if you don't have the space or the time then get your bike shop to do it for you. Pretty much any tire can be made to go tubeless as long as you use a latex sealant.

there is a shop that could do the conversion for me at a reasonable cost. They have Maxxis, but not Assegai. However, they told me they have no problems to mount the tyre I bring them, at the very same cost.

 

[pagheca]

A couple of questions before placing the order.

1. My wheel sizes (with tube) are 29 x 2.40. Do the tubeless tires have to be exactly the same size? I can't find the Assegai 2.4's. 2.5 or 2.6 only.
2. In case the answer is YES, do you suggest having the same tyres model and sizes on the front and back?

The wheels on my ebike are Bontrager Line Comp 30, "Tubeless Ready" ( Rueda Bontrager Line Comp 30 TLR Boost 29" Disc Montaña - Trek Bikes (ES) ).

I didn't understand what the tire margins are. Here [Tested] Bontrager Line Comp 30 Wheelset the author fits a 2.6" on the front wheel and a 2.4" on the rear, but it seems to me there is enough margin to mount a slightly wider tire in the rear as well. This shouldn't affect performances.

These are the current ones:

Any help very welcome!

 

[Bones]

The 2.5s will be fine, but if you want to go wider it depends on if you have enough mud clearance for a wider rear tyre. Front probably won't be an issue.
I run a wider front rim and tyre on my old mullet ebike, but on my 29er it's got 30mm rims and 2.5 tyres.
WIder tyre allows a little bit less pressure and more rubber on the trail for a bit more grip.
I'm not so sure if it works jugging by the amount of times I crash on the old bike

 

[E-MAD MALC]

The 2.5s will be fine, but if you want to go wider it depends on if you have enough mud clearance for a wider rear tyre. Front probably won't be an issue.
I run a wider front rim and tyre on my old mullet ebike, but on my 29er it's got 30mm rims and 2.5 tyres.
WIder tyre allows a little bit less pressure and more rubber on the trail for a bit more grip.
I'm not so sure if it works jugging by the amount of times I crash on the old bike

I run a 2.5 front and 2.4 rear on 30 internal rims no problem

 

[Montana St Alum]

The Maxxis WT tires are supposedly optimized for 30 to 35mm inner rim width, but I've run 2.6 on both 27mm and 30mm inners with no issues. There are numerous YouTubes on mounting tubeless tires that may be helpful even if the shop does the initial install. Since your rims are tubeless ready, it may be that all you have to do is, pull the tube, pour in sealant and pump them up.

 

[edruid]

I'd be inclined to fit tyres with a downhill casing and also inserts.
The inserts will allow you to get home should you get a flat tyre.
I'm using specialized tyres with some cheap inserts on my bike.

If your priority is dirt performance, you could go Maxxis Assegai front and back. They're pretty aggressive, though. They hold air well, tubeless and because the tread is closely packed, are okay on roads. A DHRII on the back will climb marginally better but would be unpleasant on roads.
I wouldn't bother with a tubeless conversion unless you're getting lots of flats.
There are tubeless conversion kits (like from Stan's) for non-tubeless ready rims, but not knowing what rims you have, I can't help. I've run tubeless on all of my bikes here in Utah for decades and would never consider going back, but they are really necessary here!
I run a Magic Mary front/Big Betty rear on my ebike, but that's probably not optimum for your needs. I'm also running an Assegai/Dissector combo on my mtb and that is also something that might work, but the Dissector wears pretty fast.
You can run inserts, but it doesn't sound like you need them.

yep. Have run all of the above, the Assegai is the best all-rounder I now run front and back. Only downside is it is a veeeeeerrrrrrryyyyy sssslloooooooowwwwwww roller on dirt

 

[pagheca]

Ordering the Assegai right now! Thanks folks!!!!

 

[Bones]

Ordering the Assegai right now! Thanks folks!!!!

You don't want them, there shite

 

[Harry Vandsome]

If your priority is dirt performance, you could go Maxxis Assegai front and back. They're pretty aggressive, though. They hold air well, tubeless and because the tread is closely packed, are okay on roads. A DHRII on the back will climb marginally better but would be unpleasant on roads.
I wouldn't bother with a tubeless conversion unless you're getting lots of flats.
There are tubeless conversion kits (like from Stan's) for non-tubeless ready rims, but not knowing what rims you have, I can't help. I've run tubeless on all of my bikes here in Utah for decades and would never consider going back, but they are really necessary here!
I run a Magic Mary front/Big Betty rear on my ebike, but that's probably not optimum for your needs. I'm also running an Assegai/Dissector combo on my mtb and that is also something that might work, but the Dissector wears pretty fast.
You can run inserts, but it doesn't sound like you need them.

I wanted to reply EXACTLY this

 

[pagheca]

yep. Have run all of the above, the Assegai is the best all-rounder I now run front and back. Only downside is it is a veeeeeerrrrrrryyyyy sssslloooooooowwwwwww roller on dirt

Inspired by your comment, I searched the internet and found a lot of people complaining about the Assegai being extremely slow on dirt. See for example , essentially because it is optimized for downhill use.

I wonder if it wouldn't be a problem for me by reducing the range (which is quite a problem here)... Some people suggest to put a DHR on the back and Assegai on the front.

I can still change the order... Help please!

Maxxis internal rating for the AssegaI:

from Assegai

 

[Harry Vandsome]

Assegai = GRIP = rolling resistance.

No too bad, but if you're looking for optimal rolling resistance look elsewhere.

I'm also running the Magic May F/ Big Betty R combo which is even more aggressive but I prefer traction over rolling resistance in this shit weather on the trails.

You can't have it all.

DHR & DHF are less rolling resistance but you better be a pro on the trails.

 

[pagheca]

Makes sense... I'll keep the Assegai order.

The photos I took today while returning home unfortunately do not render the depth and the actual incline, but this is the "commuting" between office and home.

It's beautiful of course for those like me who love MTB but, especially considering I'm carrying a bag with laptop and other things, keeping my balance is not trivial. The real problem is that in certain sections the bike tends to tip over, like here.

From the bottom:

... and from the top:

I often have to stop (trying to maintain balance), push and somehow try to get going again, which is not always trivial, but I'm getting better at it...

Here is one of the steepest point, 33% on the left.

Here you can't quite see it, but it is the classic goat track covered with sharp volcanic stones, with several holes where you have to use extreme caution not to fall (I got a puncture here once):

These sections are all impassable for a reason or the other with a car, even a 4WD.

Many of you are young and strong and would probably laugh at it. For me, however, these are sometimes tricky stretches to overcome. And that's not counting the off-road trails I do for fun on Sundays.

 

[Base]

I put some Conti Rubans tubeless on my emtb since the trails I ride are mostly hardpack/clay and since I also ride to the trail on the road. If more worried about punctures they also have eRuban Plus that has puncture/cut protection.

Maxxis has the Metropass AT which also has maxxprotect which is a 3mm insert for puncture protection. Something like these tires with a tighter center tread would be better for whats in the pics while still being ok for offroad.

Judging from the pics the Assegi is over kill and will wear out faster especially for mostly road or whats in the pics. Unless you are riding real off road dirt trails on sunday but then its a pick which type of tires will be better for commuting or off road.

Maybe there's some skills clinics you can attend or youtube videos on better bike handling skills that can translate to the paths/road. There's also some rear racks you can attach to the bike like the Topeak Tetrarack M2

 

[Montana St Alum]

Assegai = GRIP = rolling resistance.

No too bad, but if you're looking for optimal rolling resistance look elsewhere.

I'm also running the Magic May F/ Big Betty R combo which is even more aggressive but I prefer traction over rolling resistance in this shit weather on the trails.

You can't have it all.

DHR & DHF are less rolling resistance but you better be a pro on the trails.

That's funny. I have this same combo on my ebike - MM/BB. They may be slow rolling, but I do have a motor, after all!
I haven't used the Assegai on the back of anything, and an Assegai on the front has less impact, but I have a climbing PR here in Utah on a 1000' with the Assegai up front and a Dissector rear on my mountain bike.

 

[pagheca]

Me again...

I am even more confused then earlier as I understood now that there are many versions of the Assegai, only a few of them available for 29 x 2.50:

What really puzzles me is why some versions are only available in a few size, and why some sizes are only available in a few version. And, of course, what's the real difference to the average user.

I neither understand if these points refer to the product or is a list of different versions:

For example, does it mean that there are versions for trail, ones for enduro and ones for downhill, or that each Assegai is good for the 3 different specialties? Or could it be that these differences are only seen by highly skilled racers and/or on very technical tracks, and that for the average person one model is worth the other?

The Maxxis website doesn't help much. On one page they also say that the Assegai is only recommended for "front".

Can you please help? I canceled the order while waiting for a better understanding of the situation. The Assegai costs 50+ € and I'm discovering more and more categories as I look more into the bikes products. I also had to search to understand the real difference between trail, enduro and downhill...

As I said, I am not a racer, but I do quite technical trails here, with big climbs, and I need to make sure I get the right product for me as I do not like surprises.

I am also planning a "Camino de Santiago de Compostela" this fall (not sure if alone or with my wife, walking or biking yet) but want to buy the right gear well in advance.

Thank you and please be patient with me!

 

[steve_sordy]

You don't have to put the same tyre on both ends. The front tyre does a different job to the rear.so it is not surprising that you see many, many bikes that have mismatched tyres. You can afford to have a less grippy tyre on the rear because you can easily recover if the rear drifts out on a corner, but if the front slides out it might not end well. Even if you go for low rolling resistance tyres front and rear, you must have better grip on the front because it's the front tyre that gets you round the corner. (Yes, I know that you can use the rear brake to assist cornering).

 

[pagheca]

Thanks Steve. Got it!

Keep in mind that my goal is not to drive at a speed that would end me... at the (only) local hospital, but to keep my balance in difficult sections, uphill and downhill (and save range).

It is difficult to explain, but on this small island there is not a single flat track, once you get off the dirty road designed for cars. There is no grass, not even prepared tracks. Most of the time you have to stop and negotiate pointed rocks - never flat. Other times the ground is covered with a thick layer of very slippery pine needles: if you end up there at high speed, it can be difficult to control your bike.

I read somewhere that La Palma is the island in the world with the highest average altitude. I question if this is true but surely we are not in England!

 

[steve_sordy]

Because you are commuting, avoid the heavy "Downhill" ones and get the lighter "Mountain" versions. You then have to choose between the "Maxx Grip" and the "Maxx Terra". The "Terra" are lighter, have a slightly harder compound and will have less rolling resistance than the "Maxx Grip". All are excellent tyres. From your description of your use, I would opt for the 3C "Maxx Terra". If you like the tyres to match, then go for a "Maxx Grip" up front and a "Maxx Terra" on the rear.

You don't have to fit them both at the same time! Experiment with just one new tyre on the front first and observe the difference, then try the other.

 

[pagheca]

that's very useful. Thanks again.

I don't care about having the same tires on both wheels. I do whatever is better.

 

[steve_sordy]

I ride on sandy soil that is covered in pine needles. When the trail is dry, I agree it can be a deadly combination. It is even more important that the front is more grippy than the rear, but also good braking technique is essential. If you just clamp full on, you will end up floating along on a raft of sand and pine needles, with no directional control at all. You have to release pressure on the brake levers to allow the tyre to roll off the raft of pine needles (packed earth, wet grass, pebbles, mud, sand, ...whatever). Then brake again to momentarily restore control, before braking again. It is called cadence braking and you need to practice it because releasing the brakes does not feel natural. I squeeze/release as fast as I can. When I say "release", I don't mean fully off, just off enough for the wheel to roll. Practice first on a safe slope where you can just descend without having to corner and where there is a safe runout (no cliff edges!).
Try cadence braking with both brakes at the same time, then front and rear alternately. I have never dared try rear only because that leaves the front without control.

 

[pagheca]

Thanks for the suggestions.

I have "learned" to go off-road here. I am quite... "differently young" and my technique is probably s****y, but I have gained a lot of experience just by going up and down the island.

So far I have only fallen once on a rather complicated section of trail on a recent lava flow, with no consequences, but I am very aware of the dangers and try to avoid injury.

Even to just leave my house I have to go down a very steep road with a sharp turn at the end: the ground is worn concrete and I have to be very careful not to fall. I usually use my drop seat. Whatever I do, the rear tire slips a little. On the way back home I had to find out a way to start pedalling without tipping after negotiating a simple chain when is locked.

The beauty of this place is that for several things is like living in the '50s...

 

[steve_sordy]

@pagheca I have ridden several times in Tenerife. The trail was in part known as "The Esperanza Trail" which is on the side of Mount Teide, the local volcano. It was always dry and usually quite grippy. The trees were Eucalyptus and not pine, so dry leaves instead of needles. Despite that they could be treacherous whenever there was one leaf on top of another. The worst conditions were when it had rained during the night and the exposed clay terrain that had been polished smooth over time became like wet ice. The rental bikes had very worn tyres and the combination was not at all good.

I braked on a tricky bit and went in a dead straight line into a shaggy-barked redwood. I ended up with bark shreds embedded into my left leg from where my shorts finished to where my socks started. Then fell onto the clay and that painted my whole right side with dark red. I didn't make a pretty sight when I got back to the hotel!

The following morning, I was limping down to breakfast (in my usual shots and tee shirt). The skin of my left leg was inflamed from all the bark particles under the skin and it was throbbing and stinging. An old lady who my wife had sat next to on the coach trip she'd been on whilst I was out enjoying myself asked her "Is that your husband? Has he had a fall?" She replied, "Oh no, he crashed his mountain bike coming down the side of a volcano!" (God bless her!) Exit stage left one confused old lady!

By the way we do not "have a fall!" (FFS), We crash, we go OTB, we have an "off". WE DO NOT HAVE A FALL!