Best EMTB fork?.

[Waynemarlow]

Interesting, so the article on the Z2 is not correct ? Or were you talking about the early version Z1 ?

"The Z2," said Estes, "was the team's first beginning-to-end fork design," and he hinted that its new semi-open-bath Rail damper would be proof enough that it was an authentic Marzocchi fork.

 

[Gary]

OG marzocchi closed down manufacturing in 2015.
Fox later bought the remnants and the name. Other than the name current marzocchi suspension bears no resemblance at all to the original products you remember from the 90s and 2000s.

 

[Growmac]

I know Fin at Full Factory had a fresh-serviced Zeb Ultimate 29 170 for sale when I was talking to him the other day. Could be worth a look?

I'm personally running a coil converted Lyric Ultimate on an Enduro and a Fox 36 Factory ebike and find both of them absolutely fine. I'm about 80 kg and ride hard but not massively aggressively. For me the extra weight of the Zeb wouldn't be worth it.

 

[Waynemarlow]

OG marzocchi closed down manufacturing in 2015.
Fox later bought the remnants and the name. Other than the name current marzocchi suspension bears no resemblance at all to the original products you remember from the 90s and 2000s.

Gary it is 2022 and front shocks have come a long way since those early Bombers of 30 years ago. Mind you take one of them apart and all the same components are all there, just upgraded in 2022. Marzocchi like Ohlin had been making motorcycle front suspenders for a long time before it became popular on bikes.

We can only presume the new owners of Marzocchi have bought the brand for a reason, to set up a mid brand, with reliability without the frills, at a price level and doesn't compete directly with the main Fox brand. Marzocchi has a big following in parts of the world, good move I would say.

 

[CJaMTB]

Some of those original Marzocchis, not many mind, are still going strong without a single service! They were built, for sure. The modern ones though, even the Rail damper version, is running on Fox hand-me-down architecture. The 34, on which it's based, is too flexy for ebike use, so they got around this by making it heavier. A lot of people won't notice that on ebikes, so there's a potential market there, but I would not want a Z2 on the front of one of my bikes, it would have to be a Z1. That said, I don't need a 38mm stanchioned fork either, I'm just a small bloke and I don't add as much weight to the system as some! That's not to say the Z2 isn't good, 'cos it is, but in my opinion there are better ebike alternatives available, for the same money, that are running their own programme, some of which are also upgradeable to a higher standard (dampers and airsprings), should the owner want to, at a later date. One thing I do rate the current Marzocchi company for, is the coil conversions they offer, which are fully reversible. Not many of those around and certainly a feature I'd appreciate on more forks. For what it's worth, the choice of fork on my newest bike came down to Z1 and Durolux 36, I wound up going with the latter because I was able to get it at a price I simply could not ignore.

 

[R120]

My experience is that for ease of set up a Lyric or a Zeb is the best bet, if you really feel you can set up a Factory 36 or 38 correctly then they probably just edge it, but in my opinion you would have to be a hell of a rider to really notice.

I have a Factory 36, Lyric Ultimate, and Zeb Ultimate on various bikes, and my favourite fork in isolation is the Lyric, but thats on a mid travel bike.

In my opinion if you are running 170 or 180mm of travel a Zeb or 38 is a much better choice. I am not the world best rider, but there is a noticeable difference in stiffness on my 180mm Lyric vs 180mm Zeb. At lesser travel the stiffness difference is not really noticeable.

One thing worth noting too is brake rotor size.

If you are running a 220/223m front rotor, i would definitely go for a Zeb. The fact that the Zeb is direct mount for a 200mm rotor, means that you are running a relatively small adapter with a 220mm rotor. When running a 220mm rotor on the Lyrics/36’s, which are 180mm mount, you are using a big adapter, and i found the force of the big rotor going though the adapter meant that the brakes where constantly going out of alignment under heavy braking. Never had this issue on the Zeb. Also in my opinion the benefits of the extra stiffness is most noticeable under heavy braking, especially with a bigger rotor.

I dont know if the 38 is also 200mm mount, but same would apply if it is.

 

[Waynemarlow]

Some of those original Marzocchis, not many mind, are still going strong without a single service!

I have one of the probably first batch of Bombers in the UK, 1991-92, all 70mm of travel, was used and abused on a prototype full suspension frame together with its rear shock Marzocchi brother and neither has ever been apart.

On the front was a prototype Hope mechanical disc brake, all 160mm with a weird mounting config. The whole bike weighed not more than a follow through on a fart. At the time a full suspension bike with hydraulic damping both ends were about as rare as rocking horse shite.

 

[R120]

Marzocchi are just Fox’s more affordable line up now, and the marketing is aimed more at the free ride bro crew. Despite being cheaper than the Fox forks they are based off, they are still usually considerably more than a RS equivalent, and as such I can’t see any reason you would buy one, unless you are going for the coil option.

 

[CJaMTB]

I have one of the probably first batch of Bombers in the UK, 1991-92, all 70mm of travel, was used and abused on a prototype full suspension frame together with its rear shock Marzocchi brother and neither has ever been apart.

On the front was a prototype Hope mechanical disc brake, all 160mm with a weird mounting config. The whole bike weighed not more than a follow through on a fart. At the time a full suspension bike with hydraulic damping both ends were about as rare as rocking horse shite.

Have you got photos?!? I was still riding fully ridgid then, I remember clearly when my mate got his first set of suspension forks for his bike, a whopping 50mm!

 

[CJaMTB]

When running a 220mm rotor on the Lyrics/36’s, which are 180mm mount, you are using a big adapter, and i found the force of the big rotor going though the adapter meant that the brakes where constantly going out of alignment under heavy braking. Never had this issue on the Zeb. Also in my opinion the benefits of the extra stiffness is most noticeable under heavy braking, especially with a bigger rotor.

Just brake less!

 

[Gary]

C'mon How the hell do you expect anyone to get back down the Surrey Alps without lots of braking?

 

[Gary]

In 91 the Bomber hadn't been dreamt of yet. 96/97 was the first iteration of the Marzocchi Bomber by the 00s they'd changed hugely to full one piece lower castings and one piece CSUs

 

[Growmac]

Have you got photos?!? I was still riding fully ridgid then, I remember clearly when my mate got his first set of suspension forks for his bike, a whopping 50mm!

I remember opting for the long travel fork in 1995 - the 60 mm (!) Judy SL. Elastomer stacks, and a hydraulic damper that was practically a one-ride disposable unit. Still have that bike though, only weighs about 23 lb all in.

 

[militantmandy]

I dont know if the 38 is also 200mm mount, but same would apply if it is.

It's a 180mm mount. I'm running RSC with the 220mm HS2 rotors. No issues so far.

 

[InRustWeTrust]

@CJaMTB


Do you work at sunrace? I'm starting to get a little bit of that feeling

 

[Waynemarlow]

Have you got photos?!? I was still riding fully ridgid then, I remember clearly when my mate got his first set of suspension forks for his bike, a whopping 50mm!

Always ready to be corrected but pretty sure we had a pre production Z1 and Z2 around the end of 92 and the rear shock came to us in 93. But thats a long time ago and the memory may well fail me, but I have another time line which sort of backs that up. You'll have to excuse the dirt and dust, they were way down the back of my shed and probably haven't seen the light of day for 20 years.

 

[Growmac]

In 91 the Bomber hadn't been dreamt of yet. 96/97 was the first iteration of the Marzocchi Bomber by the 00s they'd changed hugely to full one piece lower castings and one piece CSUs

It was the XC51 that was introduced in '91 wasn't it? 50 mm travel. Bomber was 100 mm and 1997 I think?

 

[Gary]

The orange Z1 Yeah. But they were around the race scene in 96. A mate had em on his 95 GT LTS DH

 

[Gary]

Yeah. Wayne. Your memory isn't serving anyone well on this day.

 

[Waynemarlow]

You may well be right Gary, beg to differ, but thats an argument way outside of the original thread discussion.

 

[Gary]

I remember opting for the long travel fork in 1995 - the 60 mm (!) Judy SL. Elastomer stacks, and a hydraulic damper that was practically a one-ride disposable unit. Still have that bike though, only weighs about 23 lb all in.

Judy DH was a, whopping 80mm then 100mm carts could be installed. (eventually Judy's did increase to 100mm. Nico Vouilloz used to run his 80mm Judy DH with the stanchions pushed thru the bolted crown to shorten the axle to crown and steepen H/A. Mental, huh!

Those carts were incredibly simple and piss easy to rebuild. I ran one I rebuilt with finish line wet chain lube (all I had to hand) at one point.

 

[Rich-EMTB-UK]

Had the Fox 36 on my TL now got the 38 e-bike version on my Yeti and 38 definitely a better fork but as always depends on whereabouts and what you are riding. Have a Fox 34 on my hardtail which is also fine for where that is ridden.

 

[2WheelsNot4]

Always ready to be corrected but pretty sure we had a pre production Z1 and Z2 around the end of 92 and the rear shock came to us in 93. But thats a long time ago and the memory may well fail me, but I have another time line which sort of backs that up. You'll have to excuse the dirt and dust, they were way down the back of my shed and probably haven't seen the light of day for 20 years.

View attachment 84988

View attachment 84989
View attachment 84990

That was my first fork, the Z2 65mm, and a 2nd generation Hope cable brake. Though i was using a C2 on sport lever. Certainly a rare sight back in them days. Most others had canti's or V's on Judy's (Or Indy's if you were poor)

i think I've a bikes worth of new 2nd gen Hope cable calipers in my box of bits,
Crap brake though Forks were best of the era. Outshone RS or Pace easily

 

[Alex Ebiker]

If you're interested i have some 27.5" Fox 36's off my Heckler that I took off last night to try a Mullet set up?

Running 29’s thanks

 

[Alex Ebiker]

My experience is that for ease of set up a Lyric or a Zeb is the best bet, if you really feel you can set up a Factory 36 or 38 correctly then they probably just edge it, but in my opinion you would have to be a hell of a rider to really notice.

I have a Factory 36, Lyric Ultimate, and Zeb Ultimate on various bikes, and my favourite fork in isolation is the Lyric, but thats on a mid travel bike.

In my opinion if you are running 170 or 180mm of travel a Zeb or 38 is a much better choice. I am not the world best rider, but there is a noticeable difference in stiffness on my 180mm Lyric vs 180mm Zeb. At lesser travel the stiffness difference is not really noticeable.

One thing worth noting too is brake rotor size.

If you are running a 220/223m front rotor, i would definitely go for a Zeb. The fact that the Zeb is direct mount for a 200mm rotor, means that you are running a relatively small adapter with a 220mm rotor. When running a 220mm rotor on the Lyrics/36’s, which are 180mm mount, you are using a big adapter, and i found the force of the big rotor going though the adapter meant that the brakes where constantly going out of alignment under heavy braking. Never had this issue on the Zeb. Also in my opinion the benefits of the extra stiffness is most noticeable under heavy braking, especially with a bigger rotor.

I dont know if the 38 is also 200mm mount, but same would apply if it is.

Cheers. I’m leaning towards a Zeb.

 

[Alex Ebiker]

Always ready to be corrected but pretty sure we had a pre production Z1 and Z2 around the end of 92 and the rear shock came to us in 93. But thats a long time ago and the memory may well fail me, but I have another time line which sort of backs that up. You'll have to excuse the dirt and dust, they were way down the back of my shed and probably haven't seen the light of day for 20 years.

View attachment 84988

View attachment 84989
View attachment 84990

Wow. That’s old school!.

 

[Growmac]

Judy DH was a, whopping 80mm then 100mm carts could be installed. (eventually Judy's did increase to 100mm. Nico Vouilloz used to run his 80mm Judy DH with the stanchions pushed thru the bolted crown to shorten the axle to crown and steepen H/A. Mental, huh!

Those carts were incredibly simple and piss easy to rebuild. I ran one I rebuilt with finish line wet chain lube (all I had to hand) at one point.

I don't think I ever rebuilt one? I've still got the fork, I coil converted it years ago when you couldn't get the elastomers any more, maybe I need to sort it out? Remind myself how good we have it now.

 

[mas]

One thing I do rate the current Marzocchi company for, is the coil conversions they offer, which are fully reversible.

After switching them to coil you can't convert them back to air. Not sure why but read it when I did mine.

 

[CJaMTB]

@CJaMTB


Do you work at sunrace? I'm starting to get a little bit of that feeling

First off, I think you mean Suntour, and second, no.

 

[CJaMTB]

After switching them to coil you can't convert them back to air. Not sure why but read it when I did mine.

I'm sure I read that the Marzocchi coil conversion used a sleeve, specifically so that you could convert back, or was that a different fork..?