Best battery design?
- Thread starter Rob Rides EMTB
- Start date
Mabman
E*POWAH Elite World Champion
To me it has turned into a form following fashion statement. The demand for "stealth" and adherence to conventional looking frames, no matter how bulbous the dt, is the driving force towards the semi and integrated batteries. Biggest issues I see with this other than mentioned are the fact that carrying a spare battery can be an issue due to their length and forward compatibility with new cells such as the 2170's on the horizon. Integrated must makes no sense to me YMMV.
External batteries are the oldest format and should stand the test of time as more people accept the fact that it is an eBike afterall and they have a battery stealth be damned. It is the most economical way and perhaps the strongest/lightest frame wise as the dt is fully intact. Also there can be varying ah/wh batteries that fit the same dock to allow for choice dependent on range requirements and their overall size allows them to be carried in several different ways if another pack is necessary for the days adventures. Forward compatibility perhaps will be more fluid for the 2170 format also dependent on how the manufacturer in question decides to support their older models.
External batteries are the oldest format and should stand the test of time as more people accept the fact that it is an eBike afterall and they have a battery stealth be damned. It is the most economical way and perhaps the strongest/lightest frame wise as the dt is fully intact. Also there can be varying ah/wh batteries that fit the same dock to allow for choice dependent on range requirements and their overall size allows them to be carried in several different ways if another pack is necessary for the days adventures. Forward compatibility perhaps will be more fluid for the 2170 format also dependent on how the manufacturer in question decides to support their older models.
I have enjoyed several bikes with an external battery, and I wasn't really that exited about frame integration, especially if it comes with a huge weight penalty. But I can't help it, riding a really stealth emtb actually makes me feel extra happy! So as long as the future brings lower weight and lower price, then it might as well be more stealth.
Have to say I love the external Shimano batteries, when I was first looking at EMTB's I didn't want an external battery, but got the Vitus as the spec was so good, and decided I could live with the looks.
However after 9 months of ownership the ability to swap out the battery in 30secs, the compact nature of the battery if carrying in a rucksack, and the fact that the design of it allows the weight to be placed about as low as you can get it on an EMTB ( something I have noticed when riding some bikes where the weight is higher up the downtube/front due to the battery design) means that I wouldn't go down another route unless there was a compelling reason.
One thing I have learnt is never buy an EMTB based on looks, buy the best EMTB for you and your situation, not the one that looks the best!
However after 9 months of ownership the ability to swap out the battery in 30secs, the compact nature of the battery if carrying in a rucksack, and the fact that the design of it allows the weight to be placed about as low as you can get it on an EMTB ( something I have noticed when riding some bikes where the weight is higher up the downtube/front due to the battery design) means that I wouldn't go down another route unless there was a compelling reason.
One thing I have learnt is never buy an EMTB based on looks, buy the best EMTB for you and your situation, not the one that looks the best!
I agree wholeheartedly. I also changed my mind to prefer external batteries. And with two bikes that have the same battery I can carry an extra, swap if I forget to charge (yep, I've already done that...
).And around here, there's more chance other bikers are going to give me a positive reaction if I turn up on an eBike. #RobNevyn has even demo'd his bike to someone on the trail while we were out for a ride. I get admiring glances when people see my battery. haha.....
Gordon
highpeakrider
E*POWAH Master
I love my Focus, light and built in, real design for adding an external extra battery, no rucksack required.
+1 for external it's much more convenient for my use.
I have a spare battery which I carry sometimes for long rides and it's small, light(ish) and it can easily fit in any of my backpacks. I don't have a heated garage and I keep/charge the battery in the house it takes seconds to take it off/put it on.
While many of the integrated battery solutions look good but the function is more important for me than the 'stealth look'. I hope at least some of the manufacturers will continue to make good bikes with external batteries in the future too. At the moment we have some awesome selection thanks to Commencal, Vitus, Canyon, Merida etc.
I have a spare battery which I carry sometimes for long rides and it's small, light(ish) and it can easily fit in any of my backpacks. I don't have a heated garage and I keep/charge the battery in the house it takes seconds to take it off/put it on.
While many of the integrated battery solutions look good but the function is more important for me than the 'stealth look'. I hope at least some of the manufacturers will continue to make good bikes with external batteries in the future too. At the moment we have some awesome selection thanks to Commencal, Vitus, Canyon, Merida etc.
Yep, I prefer external too for all the reasons stated above. However I suspect we will not have much choice on this at the end of the day, certainly in the more premium brands - if sales and focus groups tell them integrated is what the majority want, that is what they will produce.
billwarwick
E*POWAH Elite
Agree with that MattyB. No denying the good looks of integrated, but l hope there will always be a choice. One small positive of external for me is being able to remove the battery quickly before wrestling the bike into the back of my not so large car. At my age and history of bad backs, it helps.
steve_sordy
Wedding Crasher
I have just taken delivery of my first emtb, so I 100% acknowledge that I have a lot to learn in many aspects of ownership. But the very first item of my selection criteria was the "look back factor" (always has been). When I walk away from the bike, I needed to "want" to look back at the bike as something nice to look at. Not just the colour, but the form. I don't care how highly rated the bike is, nor what cracking value it is; if it is neon pink with a great wart of a battery on the down tube, I will not even test ride it, no point as I wouldn't consider buying it.
Fortunately there are many really good bikes out there that fit the bill so that I could then concentrate on the function. I chose a Focus Jam2, which has an integrated battery that is not a practical proposition for the owner to remove. And yes I do accept that adding the optional range extender will involve "a great wart of a battery".
I have a garage attached to my house that I keep the bikes and all our garden crap in. It has power and lighting. Crucially, the builder's brickies made a mistake when building it and it was built to the same standard as the house. As a consequence the brick garage has a thermal insulating breeze block layer and the cavity is filled with rockwool. Therefore despite the two up and over garage doors (un-insulated plain steel), the garage is actually quite warm. The tumble drier is in there too, which helps. Even when we had a few nights at -17degC, water in the garage never froze. I freely admit that before I committed to the bike, I knew nothing about the perils of charging a battery below zero, but it turns out that I need not be concerned. Lucky me!
If global warming starts to reverse and we have an unexpected extra cold spell, then I can wheel the bike into the house to charge.
Right now I'm feeling like I made the correct decision. But I might change my tune in a few years time when I have taken the bike away overnight and found no safe place with power to store my bike overnight while the battery charges. (I could always take an extension lead to power it from the place I was staying). But until that moment comes, I'm just happy with my bike.
Fortunately there are many really good bikes out there that fit the bill so that I could then concentrate on the function. I chose a Focus Jam2, which has an integrated battery that is not a practical proposition for the owner to remove. And yes I do accept that adding the optional range extender will involve "a great wart of a battery".
I have a garage attached to my house that I keep the bikes and all our garden crap in. It has power and lighting. Crucially, the builder's brickies made a mistake when building it and it was built to the same standard as the house. As a consequence the brick garage has a thermal insulating breeze block layer and the cavity is filled with rockwool. Therefore despite the two up and over garage doors (un-insulated plain steel), the garage is actually quite warm. The tumble drier is in there too, which helps. Even when we had a few nights at -17degC, water in the garage never froze. I freely admit that before I committed to the bike, I knew nothing about the perils of charging a battery below zero, but it turns out that I need not be concerned. Lucky me!
If global warming starts to reverse and we have an unexpected extra cold spell, then I can wheel the bike into the house to charge.
Right now I'm feeling like I made the correct decision. But I might change my tune in a few years time when I have taken the bike away overnight and found no safe place with power to store my bike overnight while the battery charges. (I could always take an extension lead to power it from the place I was staying). But until that moment comes, I'm just happy with my bike.
@steve_sordy That's awesome to hear, enjoy your new bike! Luckily there is a big selection of ebikes in all shapes and forms so we all find the one that suits our preferences.
highpeakrider
E*POWAH Master
@steve_sordy The other option is to just run it off the TEC pack if you can’t get the bike to power, although this will limit the range.
ULEWZ
Active member
Here in the states, there is a stigma still attached to riding and E-bike, so a more concealed look was prime in my decision. Though things are changing in places like Arizona. Hopefully a trend.
Most of my rides are <2hrs, so a smaller in-frame battery suits fine, and the option of the TEC pack works well for longer adventures.
If I had to choose between a 500Wh internal or external, I'd find the decision much harder. Like @steve_sordy, I can't buy an ugly vehicle and enjoy it, but if I lived in the Scottish highlands (and didn't have a heated shed) I'd probably feel somewhat differently. Guess it comes down to context as to which is right for each of us, but ultimately market forces will do what they always do and make the decision for you.
If I had to choose between a 500Wh internal or external, I'd find the decision much harder. Like @steve_sordy, I can't buy an ugly vehicle and enjoy it, but if I lived in the Scottish highlands (and didn't have a heated shed) I'd probably feel somewhat differently. Guess it comes down to context as to which is right for each of us, but ultimately market forces will do what they always do and make the decision for you.
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My Trek fell out of the ugly tree and hit every branch on the way down but I don't care because it's just so much fun to ride.
Agree with all said here about external batteries , I bought a bike to use and be practical . looks are personal taste , I think the external battery looks better especially the shimano . All the bikes that use it are nice looking to me but that’s also to do with geo being sorted too , so it looks like a normal bike with a motor rather than a bike that’s been built to accept a motor that wasn’t really designed to fit
For me the huge downtube is ugly and that huge square motor housing on the Levo in particular is even uglier and waiting to get bashed . I think giant have made a great looking bike for An integrated .
For me the huge downtube is ugly and that huge square motor housing on the Levo in particular is even uglier and waiting to get bashed . I think giant have made a great looking bike for An integrated .
Mike F
New Member
Just adding to the external battery pros.
Just ordered a spare Shimano battery which my partner and I can share on longer rides. The BT8010 battery is relatively easy to transport in a back back.
Obviously have not done it yet however what we will do is one starts on the spare battery until about half then change to the existing battery. When the other is near empty change to the spare which still has half charge.
In effect gives us 750wh each.The key is to balance so that we do not have 2 flat batteries and one fully charged battery with distance to ride.
However we have balanced our existing batteries (I tend to use more battery) by simply changing batteries (remember to take your keys) on the longer rides.
The pro is the change of battery is a 30 second exercise.
Just ordered a spare Shimano battery which my partner and I can share on longer rides. The BT8010 battery is relatively easy to transport in a back back.
Obviously have not done it yet however what we will do is one starts on the spare battery until about half then change to the existing battery. When the other is near empty change to the spare which still has half charge.
In effect gives us 750wh each.The key is to balance so that we do not have 2 flat batteries and one fully charged battery with distance to ride.
However we have balanced our existing batteries (I tend to use more battery) by simply changing batteries (remember to take your keys) on the longer rides.
The pro is the change of battery is a 30 second exercise.
dirt huffer
E*POWAH Master
The external battery took awhile to grow on me for looks but now I really like how it looks. I personally think water bottles are even uglier... Lol. That said the Norco eBike and Levo are two of the best looking bikes IMO.
I think most new shoppers what to look as stealth as possible when riding an eBike especially In the US where there are a lot of people who still don't understand them. And I think internal batteries will continue to dominate in sales.
I think most new shoppers what to look as stealth as possible when riding an eBike especially In the US where there are a lot of people who still don't understand them. And I think internal batteries will continue to dominate in sales.
I did this recently when out with a hyper-fit rider. I was down to 2 bars and he was on 4 (of 5) when we swapped. At the end of the ride both batteries were on 2 bars...
He does weigh somewhat less than fuck all though and sometimes rides his Bosch motored bike uphill with the power off for fun!
Admittedly I live in the UK, but I don't quite get this logic...
- Anyone who's into their cycling but anti-ebike is not going to miss even "stealth" machines like the Norco, Focus or Levo - they still have much bigger downtubes and a prominent motor at the BB. Even if they do miss it at first glance they are going to notice the vast difference in performance at the first hill.
- Anyone who's a keen cyclist but likes ebikes won't comment negatively anyway.
- The majority of non-cyclists are either anti-bike, pro-bike or ambilvalent, but few have an opinion on on ebikes (yet). That may change over time, but for now you are a lot more likely to get "you can't ride a bike here" (almost always incorrectly ) than "you can't ride an ebike here".
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Yeah, it's still an ebike and it's clearly visible...Admittedly I live in the UK, but I don't quite get this logic...
By all means buy a stealth ebike if it is the right one for you and you like the looks, but I it wouldn't be a major part of my purchasing decision even if I lived in the US. For now we just need to ignore any stick we get and respond with a gentle "Cheating who?" ; these attitudes will change over time as ebikes become more prevalent. If you're not doing anything illegal and you behave with decent trail etiquette then the problem is theirs, not yours.
- Anyone who's into their cycling but anti-ebike is not going to miss even "stealth" machines like the Norco, Focus or Levo - they still have much bigger downtubes and a prominent motor at the BB. Even if they do miss it at first glance they are going to notice the vast difference in performance at the first hill.
- Anyone who's a keen cyclist but likes ebikes won't comment negatively anyway.
- The majority of non-cyclists are either anti-bike, pro-bike or ambilvalent, but few have an opinion on on ebikes (yet). That may change over time, but for now you are a lot more likely to get "you can't ride a bike here" (almost always incorrectly
I have friends who prefer the 'stealth' look because they feel less embarrassed and they think others will not see that they are riding an ebike...
Couchy
Well-known member
Both my Scott’s are external battery and can swap between them easily, looking for a new bike and I’d like to keep the same power pack but loads are going to integrated, I prefer external for ease of carrying too
steve_sordy
Wedding Crasher
wildsau2
Active member
Hi, very good info. thank you. I changed my perspective since i ve bought my first eMTB in 2017 - a Levo HT 450Wh, then in 2018 i grabbed a Rotwild 630 Wh. Now, in 2019, i prefer - in theory - an external standard battery, because of easy handling. The downside of ext. battery is only 500 Wh and no place for the water bottle, both are showstoppers for me.. I found a really cool approach - have a look at the intense eMTB. They designed an inframe solution in the downtube with standard shimano battery packs. waterbottle problem solved´ looks good, easy handling. very cool
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