Battery Size and Range Research

[Wombat Breath]

If you have 2 minutes to spare we are trying to collect some data about battery sizes and ranges. If you can spare the time to answer these four questions we would be really grateful...

Two different use cases, so some questions need two answers:
1a. Ride distances: XC/Exercise= 50-100 kms; Bikepacking= 65-120 kms
1b. Ride times : XC/Exercise= 2-4 hrs; Bikepacking= 3-6 hrs
2. Battery size: 750wh (Bosch CX smart system)
3. Charge used : XC/Exercise= 40-80%; Bikepacking= 70-100%
4. XC/Exercising= Pushing against limiter (Eco/Tour) most of the time as restricted to 25kph in Aus;
Bikepacking= Use low motor output (Eco/Tour) to preserve range.

 

[Semmelrocc]

What is your average ride length (time or distance)?
Based on my riding statistics of 2023 so far: 16 km / 51 min

What size is your battery?
320 Wh

Does your average ride consume all of your charge?
No, bike consumes about 40% of the battery on this average ride.

Do you let your motor do as much of the work as possible or do your legs contribute fairly?
In general, I prefer a proper workout and less motor assistance. One exception: uphills in the local bike park.

 

[ThierryGTLTS]

If you have 2 minutes to spare we are trying to collect some data about battery sizes and ranges. If you can spare the time to answer these four questions we would be really grateful.

1. What is your average ride length (time or distance)?
2. What size is your battery?
3. Does your average ride consume all of your charge?
4. Do you let your motor do as much of the work as possible or do your legs contribute fairly?

Thank you in advance to anyone who takes the time to answer.

View attachment 128317

Most important, please add: 5. rider weight?
It changes everything!

Thierry

 

[militantmandy]

1. What is your average ride length (time or distance)?

Around 25km / 1.5 hours / 1000m elevation

2. What size is your battery?

750

3. Does your average ride consume all of your charge?

No, around 70%

4. Do you let your motor do as much of the work as possible or do your legs contribute fairly?

Turbo all the time. My local trails require almost no pedalling on the downhills though.

ETA - I am around 87kg in riding gear.

 

[Guyt]

I have 2 E-BIKES, a Spherik (EP8) Fatbike and Orbea Rise H10 2023. I ride the fatbike mostly the winter (-10C avg temp) and the Orbea in MTB trails. I weight 77 Kg

1. What is your average ride length (time or distance)?
Spherik: 26 km
Orbea: 28 km

2. What size is your battery?
Spherik: 630W
Orbea: 540W

3. Does your average ride consume all of your charge?
Spherik: 60-80% (cold temperature is a major factor)
Orbea: 40-50%

4. Do you let your motor do as much of the work as possible or do your legs contribute fairly?
I like to throw in some energy.

 

[Rod B.]

If you have 2 minutes to spare we are trying to collect some data about battery sizes and ranges. If you can spare the time to answer these four questions we would be really grateful.

1. What is your average ride length (time or distance)?
2. What size is your battery?
3. Does your average ride consume all of your charge?
4. Do you let your motor do as much of the work as possible or do your legs contribute fairly?

Thank you in advance to anyone who takes the time to answer.

View attachment 128317

1. What is your average ride length (time or distance)?
Average Ride Time: 2.0 Hours
Average Distance: 20 miles/32 Km

2. What size is your battery?
700Wh (Specialized Levo)

3. Does your average ride consume all of your charge?
For my area of riding, battery life is dependent upon the elevation gain of the ride and steepness of the trail. Southern California is very mountainous. Average ride elevation gain for this year has been 2,600 feet/792 meters, with some rides having a maximum elevation gain of 6,000 feet/1,829 meters. I typically have between 30 to 60 percent of battery remaining. The maximum I have drained my battery level down to has been 18%, during a 42 mile/68 Km ride.

4. Do you let your motor do as much of the work as possible or do your legs contribute fairly?
I try to let my legs do as much work as possible. I tend to use full power only on the steepest of climbs, or if my legs are feeling tired. On some occasions, I may ride five to seven days in a row. This tends to wipe my legs out and I will rely more upon the motor.

 

[VELOMONT]

People are giving you a lot of data but it will not be much use. You also need to know rider weight, elevation change vs distance and tyres. These items make a huge difference to range. My wife can get 30% farther than me on the same ride profile due to her lower body weight and less draggy tyres. Range is really difficult to assess. In reality bikes with the same battery capacity and NM torques probably have the same range so don't get range anxiety

Thank you for your kind words advising us not to get range anxiety but that's not what we are doing here.
Everyone's experiences are different and the data is extremely useful to us; we are trying to identify factors which accompany the obvious fact that some riders just rely on assistance more than others.
Are you really saying your wife rides the same bike as you, on the same trails and her battery is the same age as yours yet she gets 30% farther because of tyre choice and weight? It may be useful to get more information about your bikes, tyres and rider weights; is your wife's bike newer than yours?
Does your wife ever use the phrase "You are not pulling your weight"? (asking from experience)

 

[VELOMONT]

@VELOMONT In the same token, I'm also curious how will the data you're collecting here about battery size and range be used? What's the objective/ purpose of this informal survey?

Our eMTB's offer high power to weight ratio (95Nm at 21.5kg) and we are researching what size batteries to use in our next batch of bikes. Brands like to boast of large batteries but we find they are brands who make heavy bikes. We are not sure we want to make heavy bikes and are gathering this info. to see if our 'gut feeling' is right or wrong.

 

[B1rdie]

Rudeness? Not rude at all. Wear a helmet if u think that was rude. I'm simply stating the facts that have been well established Over the last 10 years.


A other thing to consider that's also been well established over the decades is that the battery % left meter on most ebike is notoriously inaccurate. So u claim 20% left. But in reality you got 30-40% left.

this has been well documented. And is irrefutable

Could you please provide a link to the documents that backup your argument?

 

[mswinche]

If you have 2 minutes to spare we are trying to collect some data about battery sizes and ranges. If you can spare the time to answer these four questions we would be really grateful.

1. What is your average ride length (time or distance)?
2. What size is your battery?
3. Does your average ride consume all of your charge?
4. Do you let your motor do as much of the work as possible or do your legs contribute fairly?

Thank you in advance to anyone who takes the time to answer.

View attachment 128317

1. Average ride is 20 miles.
2. Battery size is 1700 Wh, 54.7V nominal, charge to 62.5V, 50A connector, 30.9 Ah, 24lb, located in bike trailer with 6awg wires running to mid drive on bike, 70 mile range pulling 100+ lb trailer with 20C weather
3. Never
4. Yes, due to back problems

 

[B1rdie]

I wish someone developed an app that ,based on one’s personal bike/fitness, could provide the most assintance to a given route, based on gps distance and elevation…

 

[Zimmerframe]

I wish someone developed an app that ,based on one’s personal bike/fitness, could provide the most assintance to a given route, based on gps distance and elevation…

"Smart Control" in Mission Control (Spesh) pretty much does that. I've not used it for years, but it used to work pretty well. Set your distance and expected elevation and how much battery you want left at the end and it then controls the level of assistance you get through the ride. It works out when you're going up hills and gives you a bit more automaticaly.

 

[Semmelrocc]

And it's supposed to work in the new Specialized App now as well.

 

[theremotejuggernaut]

I wish someone developed an app that ,based on one’s personal bike/fitness, could provide the most assintance to a given route, based on gps distance and elevation…

Nah, It just wouldn't be as much fun if I didn't keep up my frugal use of eco the whole way, finishing the ride half dead.

Still with 40% battery left and unable to walk

 

[JP-NZ]

If you have 2 minutes to spare we are trying to collect some data about battery sizes and ranges. If you can spare the time to answer these four questions we would be really grateful.

Hi velomont,

1. What is your average ride length (time or distance)? 40-45km (25-28 Miles) with 1,000-1,200m climbing (3200-4000ft)- 2 to 2.5 Hours riding time
2. What size is your battery? 750wh Bosch Smart system
3. Does your average ride consume all of your charge? No, Normally home with 35-45% remaining
4. Do you let your motor do as much of the work as possible or do your legs contribute fairly? I'm a sucker for wanting a workout, looking back over my previous 20 or so rides my average HR is 85% of max and I reach 100% often on climbs. My Rail lifetime mode usage is 43% Eco, 50%Tour+ and 7% EMTB.
5. Rider weight etc? 43y, 110kg kitted up

 

[billp91311]

1. What is your average ride length (time or distance)? 2 - 2.5 hours 20 miles or so at El Escorpion to Chesebro loop which is a mix of downhill and climbing. I mostly use trail and some boost for the loner climbs. My bike has s a Shimano E8000 drive with 504wh battery. Bike with original battery and motor are 6 years old with just over 3000 miles on the odo.
2. What size is your battery? 504wh
3. Does your average ride consume all of your charge? Yes for my weekends 2-2.5 hours and no for weekdays which are 1-1.5 hours
4. Do you let your motor do as much of the work as possible or do your legs contribute fairly? I rely on motor because its a faster pace and way more fun and thats why I ride an ebike plus getting up hills I would not or probably could not do unless I maybe had a skinny tire carbon bike but f that. I ride mostly trail with some boost on longer climbs and eco when I am getting low on juice which can be a grind at the end of the ride to make it back to the car.

My riding bud has a 418wh battery with an E7000 Shimano motor and does a little better than my bike but his rig is about 2 years old.

 

[Streddaz]

1. What is your average ride length (time or distance)?
50Km/2hrs/260m, for commuting and 25km/1.5hrs/320m for trail riding
2. What size is your battery?
320Wh
3. Does your average ride consume all of your charge?
No, less than half most of the time.
4. Do you let your motor do as much of the work as possible or do your legs contribute fairly?
Commuting my legs to most of the work. Trail riding it's more 50/50.

A big day out would be 60km/3.5hrs/1300m and use pretty much all of my battery.
Bike: 2021 Levo SL Comp

 

[Base]

1. What is your average ride length (time or distance)?
27-30km around 2hr average

2. What size is your battery?
800Wh

3. Does your average ride consume all of your charge?
No, usually 40% left

4. Do you let your motor do as much of the work as possible or do your legs contribute fairly?
Left on 3rd setting and only use 4-5 for the few tough climbs.

Giant claims 75km in conditions extreme which I highly doubt I'll ever see since my ride today was just 53km and it left me with 3% battery, previous week 40km and left with 35%. As for climbs everything is short ups/downs here as I prob average 150-200m of climbing.

 

[Semmelrocc]

I had the opportunity to reach my bike's limits last weekend by doing some downhill runs on a nearby mountain. The data for that specific ride:

1. What is your average ride length (time or distance)?
27km, ca. 2hr and 1.000 hm

2. What size is your battery?
320Wh

3. Does your average ride consume all of your charge?
Yes, less than 10% left

4. Do you let your motor do as much of the work as possible or do your legs contribute fairly?
Kept bike in trail mode (40-80% power depending on my own input)

 

[G-Sport]

Our eMTB's offer high power to weight ratio (95Nm at 21.5kg) and we are researching what size batteries to use in our next batch of bikes. Brands like to boast of large batteries but we find they are brands who make heavy bikes. We are not sure we want to make heavy bikes and are gathering this info. to see if our 'gut feeling' is right or wrong.

Possibly should have provided this info at the start? I think you will find the current market split between full weight and light-weight bikes is mirrored in how people use the bikes. If you try to cater to everyone you will end up with a bike in no-man's land that no-one wants.
Personally I have almost zero interest in anything much over 19kgs.

My average ride is about 20km with 700-900m of (mostly) off-road climbing (elevation arguably more significant then distance and surface makes a difference too)
I'm about 80kgs in gear.

320Wh battery (gen 1 Levo SL) very very occasionally with 160Wh range extender but I try to avoid this wherever possible because it significantly changes the behaviour of the bike and means I can't have a water bottle so end up running a hydration pack on my back rather than a bum bag which also significantly "spoils" the ride.

Typically about 30% battery left if on "normal" tyres, but winter (mud orientated) tyres make a surprisingly big difference and reduce this to about 20% or less.

These numbers would be based on a mixture of mostly trail and some eco, so 60% and 35% assistance respectively. If I am riding with non-e bikers I will typically just use eco and have 50% plus left at the end.

I'd rather have a lighter bike and a range extender option but I probably wouldn't buy the range extender until I needed it rather than getting it at the same time as the bike and would look for the option to keep a water bottle cage while running it.