Battery life

[ChrisB NZ]

Now that the Steps system has been around for about 3 years, I'm just wondering what your experiences are with battery life:

How many Km's/miles (total) have you got out of your battery so far?
How many charge cycles have you done?
Have you had to replace a battery yet?
Any issues with the battery range or performance over time?

I've had my E8000 battery for about a year and done 1400 Km. Not sure how many charge cycles but probably only about 25.

Battery life still seems good, but I notice that it has died completely on me a few times recently while still showing 2 bars on the battery/display. Putting it in boost up a hill has killed it both times. A few other people have reported this. I've also noticed that riding in boost when the battery is getting low (2-3 bars) drains it really quickly. The display goes to one bar red but when I turn the bike off for a minute or two and turn it back on, it goes back to 2 bars.

What this shows is that remaining battery life estimation is not accurate and battery depletion not linear. Probably not a surprise - but it's a pain not being able to rely on the range estimate when you're a long way from base.

 

[Cisco]

My original E-8010 battery is a bit over a year old and well used. I got a newish spare second hand and can see now when comparing them that the original battery is well past its' best. I would guestimate that it lasts about 60% of the duration of the new battery for equivalent use.

 

[Zimmerframe]

E-8010 + E8000 Motor.

4 Months. 1200km. Shows 21 Charge cycles and has just dropped to 99% Capacity.

After about 2 months it did feel like it's capacity/range rapidly dropped off significantly, but this seemed to sort itself out . Unusual and doesn't make any sense, so most likely user reality distortion, though it did co-incide with discovering the display cable was too tight which also caused system reboots (taped solidly to rear brake hose. Taped every 10cm works fine).

I think the bars are best thought of as showing the capacity of an inverted pyramid, though not that an exaggerated shape.

 

[PeterM]

19 months old.
90% health.
65 charge cycles.
5000km total.
Noticing reduced range.
But still able to do a 40km ride with 1000m elevation yesterday. Eco the whole way.
The cold temps do play a part too.
There is no way it will reach the 1000 charge cycles before being unusable.

 

[ChrisB NZ]

19 months old.
90% health.
65 charge cycles.
5000km total.
Noticing reduced range.
But still able to do a 40km ride with 1000m elevation yesterday. Eco the whole way.
The cold temps do play a part too.
There is no way it will reach the 1000 charge cycles before being unusable.

5000km is impressive. Any motor problems? It seems that the Shimano Steps gear is pretty reliable.

Yeah - maybe if you charged your battery 3 or 4 times per day, you'd get 1,000 charge cycles before it bit the dust - but it would have to last about 20 years for me to get that far!

 

[PeterM]

5000km is impressive. Any motor problems? It seems that the Shimano Steps gear is pretty reliable.

Yeah - maybe if you charged your battery 3 or 4 times per day, you'd get 1,000 charge cycles before it bit the dust - but it would have to last about 20 years for me to get that far!

 

[PeterM]

No problems with the motor at all. Got a little worried when i had some creaky clicking coming from that area. But i found loosening off and retightening the cranks and chain ring got rid of that. phew.

 

[Gary]

My first Emtb's battery did somewhere around 3000 km in 12 months of use and was on its 3rd replacement motor. Battery was fine though and it still managed the same range as when new when I got returned it.
Second emtb (same model bike) is 10 weeks old and has covered just over 1600km and is showing 100% health @ 27 charge cycles
In reality this battery has been charged at least 4 or 5 times per week every week since new. (not often from completely discharged though) so has probably had closer to 50 actual charging sessions.

but I notice that it has died completely on me a few times recently while still showing 2 bars on the battery/display. Putting it in boost up a hill has killed it both times. A few other people have reported this. I've also noticed that riding in boost when the battery is getting low (2-3 bars) drains it really quickly. The display goes to one bar red but when I turn the bike off for a minute or two and turn it back on, it goes back to 2 bars.

Is your motor derestricted?
If so try removing/turning off the derestriction and you'll probably find the battery indication bars depleat less quickly and the motor doesn't kill the assist straight from 2 bars anymore.
I certainly found this to be the case anyway.
Estimated Range is all to cock on derestricted motors too.

 

[ChrisB NZ]

My first Emtb's battery did somewhere around 3000 km in 12 months of use and was on its 3rd replacement motor. Battery was fine though and it still managed the same range as when new when I got returned it.
Second emtb (same model bike) is 10 weeks old and has covered just over 1600km and is showing 100% health @ 27 charge cycles
In reality this battery has been charged at least 4 or 5 times per week every week since new. (not often from completely discharged though) so has probably had closer to 50 actual charging sessions.


Is your motor derestricted?
If so try removing/turning off the derestriction and you'll probably find the battery indication bars depleat less quickly and the motor doesn't kill the assist straight from 2 bars anymore.
I certainly found this to be the case anyway.
Estimated Range is all to cock on derestricted motors too.

3rd motor! Must be the Scottish Highlands. All covered under warranty I presume? It seems replacement motors are pretty common for Specialized/Brose bikes but not so much for Shimano. I've heard motors are quite hard to come by - maybe demand is outstripping supply. I'd have a go at fixing it myself if parts were readily available.

No my bike is standard (although luckily 32Km/hr limit here). I find that fast enough. I guess the lesson is not to use Boost too much when the battery is getting low as it kills the remaining charge pretty quickly. It's a bit of a wake-up call riding with no motor!

 

[Gary]

No. Lowlands (the high/low part has nothing to do with hilliness BTW)
Yes they were warrantied
"having a go" invalidates all warranty. Out of warranty I'd have opened it and replaced the bearings myself too.
Warranty on a motor with worn bearings = replacement motor.
Shimano don't even attempt to fix them

I tend to ride with my motor off from the beginning of rides when fresh rather than at the end when tired.
the steps motor isn't bad to pedal switched off. it has no noticable drag. It's just a bit harder to accelerate and slower to climb with the extra 15lb the motor and battery add. The main reason most Emtbs pedal like pigs without the motor isn't the weight it's the large volume, heavy, tough casing, super soft, low pressure draggy tyres most folk run on them.
My tyres have none of those traits.

 

[ChrisB NZ]

No. Lowlands (the high/low part has nothing to do with hilliness BTW)
Yes they were warrantied
"having a go" invalidates all warranty. Out of warranty I'd have opened it and replaced the bearings myself too.
Warranty on a motor with worn bearings = replacement motor.
Shimano don't even attempt to fix them

I tend to ride with my motor off from the beginning of rides when fresh rather than at the end when tired.
the steps motor isn't bad to pedal switched off. it has no noticable drag. It's just a bit harder to accelerate and slower to climb with the extra 15lb the motor and battery add. The main reason most Emtbs pedal like pigs without the motor isn't the weight it's the large volume, heavy, tough casing, super soft, low pressure draggy tyres most folk run on them.
My tyres have none of those traits.

Yeah, I'll wait until the warranty is expired (2 years I think).

Our ancestors were probably running around together. My father was born in Paisley - but left when he was 3. Been to Scotland once way back in the 80's.

What are you running tyre-wise now? Did you wear your first bike out?

 

[Gary]

Paisley is nowhere near any of my ancestors running around grounds. The culture in Paisley is completely different to where I'm from, where I live now and where my ancestors ran around.

Do you know Scottish Paul? He lives in Queensland?

I'm running a 2.3 SS rear and DHF 2.5 front on the E sommet. Both Exo and dual compound.
I like fast rolling, fast acceleration, nimbleness and DRIFT. Emtbs are terrible at all of these traits with BIG heavy super soft DH tyres most folk seem to run.

I occasionally run a Magic Mary 2.35 up front and DHRII or HRII when I want wet conditions grip (not very often)

The history of the first bike is a very looooooooong story.

 

[ChrisB NZ]

Paisley is nowhere near any of my ancestors running around grounds. The culture in Paisley is completely different to where I'm from, where I live now and where my ancestors ran around.

Do you know Scottish Paul? He lives in Queensland?

I'm running a 2.3 SS rear and DHF 2.5 front on the E sommet. Both Exo and dual compound.
I like fast rolling, fast acceleration, nimbleness and DRIFT. Emtbs are terrible at all of these traits with BIG heavy super soft DH tyres most folk seem to run.

I occasionally run a Magic Mary 2.35 up front and DHRII or HRII when I want wet conditions grip (not very often)

The history of the first bike is a very looooooooong story.

Thanks. Interesting. No don’t know Scottish Paul.

 

[Zimmerframe]

19 months old.
90% health.
65 charge cycles.
5000km total.
Noticing reduced range.
But still able to do a 40km ride with 1000m elevation yesterday. Eco the whole way.
The cold temps do play a part too.
There is no way it will reach the 1000 charge cycles before being unusable.

Peter, it looks like you're our average range winner/expert on the stats submitted so far.

Your 5000k & 65 charge cycles put you up at a whopping 76k average per charge - even more impressive when considering your battery health level.

Be interesting to know other peoples stats as time goes on and their techniques for charging (after a ride, when almost empty, before a ride) and modes used whilst riding to determine how to get the most range on a charge (other than the obvious things like use eco, ride slower and avoid hills) and how to extend battery health. Your's is at 90% after 65 cycles. I'm at 99% after 20+ cycles. Gary's at almost 30 cycles but still has 100% health.

In fairness Gary lives in Scotland where they don't have electricity yet, so he has to charge his batteries in the evenings using an old exercise bike (with no saddle) running two 1980's dynamo's to trickle charge. Imagine trying to eat your dinner whilst on an exercise bike with no saddle, he has the core strength and balance of a giraffe !

 

[Spiff]

How do you check Battery Health? I tried with Etube for tablet, but I believe it did not specified Health.

 

[Zimmerframe]

How do you check Battery Health? I tried with Etube for tablet, but I belive it did not specified Health.

Hi Spiff,

If you're on IOS then you can use Stepsunlocker or e-max tuning .

For Android, Stepsunlocker, I don't think there's an e-max android app yet ? Later this year.

Stepsunlocker base version is €1.69 I think, but is worth having just for ease of connection (I find it easier than etube) and for ease of changing assistance levels, especially eco mode.

For me standing on the left of the bike gets me connected 100% of the time. On the right, less so - though this might just be down to where other items are in proximity to the bike which are causing interference with bluetooth.

 

[ChrisB NZ]

Hi Spiff,

If you're on IOS then you can use Stepsunlocker or e-max tuning .

For Android, Stepsunlocker, I don't think there's an e-max android app yet ? Later this year.

Stepsunlocker base version is €1.69 I think, but is worth having just for ease of connection (I find it easier than etube) and for ease of changing assistance levels, especially eco mode.

For me standing on the left of the bike gets me connected 100% of the time. On the right, less so - though this might just be down to where other items are in proximity to the bike which are causing interference with bluetooth.

Anyone got any idea how Shimano actually assesses/measures battery health? I presume the app is just reading a parameter stored in the BMS. But how is this calculated?

 

[Spiff]

Anyone got any idea how Shimano actually assesses/measures battery health? I presume the app is just reading a parameter stored in the BMS. But how is this calculated?

I believe that Shimano hides this battery health information on purpose. Etube for tablet includes a battery test which only verifies if the LEDS shine, the battery health and charge cycles are not shown.

The Shimano reason to hide this information is probably to avoid warranty claims in case that battery healh degrades during warranty period. The less information customers have, the less claims Shimano will receive.

Which is an insane way to avoid claims because if battery has health issues that we are not aware of, then we may have serious problems far from home or even sudden lack of assistance in a difficult track.

 

[Lowkku]

I had 7 cycles on battery when I checked battery health (now 9) and steps unlocker shows battery health at -63%. Guessing the minus is to be ignored but % seems really low if it's correct.
Battery life seems normal, hauls my fat ass for 30-70km depending on terrain.

Anything to worry about? Unlikely it would go under warranty and if it did, I think they'd want whole bike sent back that I'm not into

 

[Zimmerframe]

battery health at -63%

Is this on an e8000 or an e7000 ? There's a bug with the e7000's that shows the incorrect battery health.

 

[Lowkku]

Is this on an e8000 or an e7000 ? There's a bug with the e7000's that shows the incorrect battery health.

Yes indeed, some background info might have been helpful. E7000 engine with black/white E7000 display. Attached to Vitus e-sommet.
Good to know!

 

[Akiwi]

As a Comparson to Bosch, I recently updated my Motor Firmware and checked my Battery statistics.
I had done 4250 KM and 55 full charge cycles.
Battery was also rated at about 90% of full capacity (I think)
Anyway I definitely notice a difference in Range from when the bike was new.

Since then the motor started to sound like a coffee grinder, and Bosch replaced it under guarantee about a week ago. I replaced my front cog, rear Casette and chain all together so my drivetrain is completely new now.

 

[Jamsxr]

After 2 months of ownership. Mix of Surrey trails and a few bike parks - 70% trail and 30% eco. I’m averaging around 22 meters of ascending per KM.

Battery is stored at between 70% - 100%

 

[33red]

From what i read Shimano and maybe others are not accurate. Thinking 2 lights out of 4 is 50 % is pure wishfull thinking. I think at about 70% is time to replace so you might not get that many recharges. Hopefully it last you many recharges and many years but in Quebec we are experimenting, too new to tell. Mine is a Yamaha 2017 500 Wh bought recently(it was an unsold) i have no clue how many recharges, 3,300 kms feels like new, many rides over 4 hrs, never empty.

 

[Jamsxr]

Mine seems fairly accurate, I’m getting circa 10km per bar for my riding - trail with a bit of eco.

I’m still to go out on a pure eco ride to get maximum range. I’m thinking I could get >70km with 1400 meters.

 

[Nickolp1974]

Had my merida e120 about 7 weeks, 12 cycles, approx 600km and health at 95%. My riding thus far has been a 50/50 mix on/off with around 500m of ascent and on average 27 miles a ride, approx 1-10km left on battery, 95%eco, 5% trail. Cadence usually 80+

Should I have lost 5% already??

 

[33red]

Had my merida e120 about 7 weeks, 12 cycles, approx 600km and health at 95%. My riding thus far has been a 50/50 mix on/off with around 500m of ascent and on average 27 miles a ride, approx 1-10km left on battery, 95%eco, 5% trail. Cadence usually 80+

Should I have lost 5% already??

I am no expert but it looks terrible. From memory the life expectancy is 30%. Hopefully our $$ got us a 100% battery if we bought new. At 70% not only we will start with less but the emptying will happen sooner. So for example if the first week i can do 50 km at 70% that battery may be emptied at only 25 kms wich is not much for a decent bike(in my example i suppose a 500 Wh wich is popular). So at about 3,600 kms you would be shopping for a battery, maybe 550 $US. I am sure no seller will tell that to a prospective buyer.
Is there a way i could find those numbers? Here it is too new asking a shop is wasting time.
My system is full Yamaha 2017 with the large rectangular screen. I bought it new, now 3,300kms.
I think the healthy life is **pretend 500 or 1,000 full recharge cycles.**
Thanks

 

[Jamsxr]

Had my merida e120 about 7 weeks, 12 cycles, approx 600km and health at 95%. My riding thus far has been a 50/50 mix on/off with around 500m of ascent and on average 27 miles a ride, approx 1-10km left on battery, 95%eco, 5% trail. Cadence usually 80+

Should I have lost 5% already??

50% with the motor off?

I don’t think you should have lost 5% in such a short amount of time, how do you store your battery - charge level and environment?

 

[33red]

I read my owners manual and it says what i wrote except 500-750 cycles is normal.

 

[Nickolp1974]

50% with the motor off?

I don’t think you should have lost 5% in such a short amount of time, how do you store your battery - charge level and environment?

50% on road 50% off road, on bike every other day so it goes on charge after ride till I use it next. Charged and kept in house.