Battery charging question

[ptkatoomer]

Don't think this matters but I've got a Yt industries Decoy MX10. The manual says that I should expect to get around 1000 charging cycles out of the battery.
My question is this: Am I using up one of my "charging cycles" when I'm only topping off the remaining charge? In other words, say every ride uses up 2 1/2 bars (out of 5). Should I expect to get 2000 cycles out of the battery?
I'm just looking for the best way to optimize battery life.
Thanks.

 

[Bndit]

Charging cycle is from empty to full, so if you use half of the battery and charge it full, it`s half cycle.

 

[steve_sordy]

It can't hurt to discharge the battery and recharge to full once in a while, or is that old tech speaking?

 

[Gareth]

I'm just looking for the best way to optimize battery life.

I’d say don’t worry and just use it.

Try not to fully discharge it, and if you do, or it is below 30% charge after a ride get it straight on charge as soon as you can.

If you are not going to be using it for a few weeks try not to charge to 100%, try to leave it between 30 and 70%.

Another thing, according to the Bosch user guide, is to avoid is using the battery when it is cold. In other words, if the battery has been sitting at a low ambient temperature in your garage, bring it inside and let it warm up before use. Apparently they are OK to be stored and charged down to 0 degrees C, but using them from such low temperatures could cause damage.

If we get a cold spell round here (ie freezing weather for more than a couple of days) I bring my Cube battery into the house along with the Mondraker bike.

Bosch user guide is here - https://www.bosch-ebike.com/fileadm...de/Akku_Guide/Bosch-eBike-Akkuguide-EN-GB.pdf

 

[steve_sordy]

Same basic recco as @Gareth but my garage never goes below 6degC, so I leave the whole bike there. Also, I leave the battery between 50% and 80% for anything longer than overnight. I set a timer and charge to 100% before each ride.

 

[ciorbarece7]

Using the battery in cold weather conditions won‘t damage it, it just won‘t deliver the same range. From my experience when riding aroud freezing point you can expect around 10% less range.

From what I‘ve heard the battery should not be charged in cold temperatures if possible.

Also when the battery ist stored at „normal“ temperatures from my experience it‘s not a problem to charge it to 100% and leave it like that for al long time.

 

[Ark]

It can't hurt to discharge the battery and recharge to full once in a while, or is that old tech speaking?

its a waste of time, charging to 100% and letting the charger turn it self off once in a while is a good thing though.
at the very end the charger takes a long time to make sure all the cels are topped off to the same voltage.
Batteries should be stored between 40-60%

I don't think any of the ebike batteries self discharge to storage voltages, DJI drone batteries do it which is kinda cool.
they must have a tiny heating circuit inside that triggers to discharge the batteries

 

[Gareth]

Same basic recco as @Gareth but my garage never goes below 6degC, so I leave the whole bike there. Also, I leave the battery between 50% and 80% for anything longer than overnight. I set a timer and charge to 100% before each ride.

Absolutely ideal Steve.

Sadly, my garage has zero insulation, and basically it is at ambient temperature. So as a precaution during an extended cold period, such as just now, the batteries come inside. I’m just playing safe. That means a monster Mondraker in the hall just now. How did bicycles become so big?

I just charge to 100% after a ride, unless I don’t think I’ll use it in the next fortnight or more. The Cube battery is now almost 4 years old. No issues so far – don’t mention the bloody motor though.

Using the battery in cold weather conditions won‘t damage it, it just won‘t deliver the same range. From my experience when riding aroud freezing point you can expect around 10% less range.



From what I‘ve heard the battery should not be charged in cold temperatures if possible.

Have a read through the Bosch guide I linked to. Storage and charging down to 0 degrees C they say is fine. For cold use they recommend warming the battery before use (ie bringing it inside before use). And they recommend thermal protection for extended cold use.

I ride mine in sub zero conditions, but the battery is at inside temperature before the ride.

See under ‘Winter use’ page 27.

Anyway, the thing I do have issues with at the mo, are my GoPro batteries. Gopro just keeps shutting down with a perfectly good battery. I’m gonna keep spare batteries in my jacket pocket and rotate as required and see if that solves the problem. I think the GoPro batteries might just be poor on cold days.

 

[Tom Sellers]

""charging cycle is from empty to full"

If by "full" we mean 100% of SOC (State of Charge (SOC) with respect to Li-ion (Lithium-Ion) batteries refers to the current charge level or remaining capacity of the battery, expressed as a percentage of its maximum possible charge), any charge cycle of the battery counts as a charge cycle, even if the battery started when it still was at 50% SOC. According to GRIN technologies, the way eBike battery packs are engineered, a charge that goes to 80% SOC (instead of 100% SOC) can substantially result in an increase of the lifespan of the battery pack. However, most common BMS algorithms do not balance charge until it is engaged in the last 10% of SOC. So GRIN sells a bespoke and very expensive charger for enthusiasts who wish to prolong the life of their batteries. Being an impecunious senior citizen on a fixed income, but wanting to squeeze the max battery life from my 48V battery pack, I went with a less elegant approach to this longevity dichotomy. I had 2 regular generic chargers for 48v battery packs. I adjusted the POT (potentiometer) on #1 to shutoff at a cutoff voltage of 52V. The other, #2, is stock for nominal 48v battery packs, and charges to a cutoff voltage of 56v. I'll charge 9 cycles on charger #1, and then for the tenth, I'll move to charger #2 (in order to make sure I still get all the cells balanced). There are lots of videos on YT illustrating how to adjust the high voltage cutoff, and find the POT that controls the cutoff voltage.

 

[whitymon]

Warming the battery could be something done by the bike but unlikely with such small batteries.

For example on Tesla the car is never off as there is always a slightly juice to keep them a bit warm. This is not huge but a requirement for any battery outside.

 

[Pedec]

I’d say don’t worry and just use it.

Try not to fully discharge it, and if you do, or it is below 30% charge after a ride get it straight on charge as soon as you can.

If you are not going to be using it for a few weeks try not to charge to 100%, try to leave it between 30 and 70%.

Another thing, according to the Bosch user guide, is to avoid is using the battery when it is cold. In other words, if the battery has been sitting at a low ambient temperature in your garage, bring it inside and let it warm up before use. Apparently they are OK to be stored and charged down to 0 degrees C, but using them from such low temperatures could cause damage.

If we get a cold spell round here (ie freezing weather for more than a couple of days) I bring my Cube battery into the house along with the Mondraker bike.

Bosch user guide is here - https://www.bosch-ebike.com/fileadm...de/Akku_Guide/Bosch-eBike-Akkuguide-EN-GB.pdf

I just bought a Rocky Mountain blizzard power play. I was also wondering about battery in cold conditions. The nice thing with blizzard is you can look at battery temp on jumbtron. display. I warmed up my bike before going on a ride so battery said 18c. I went for 14kmride that took a little over a hour at -20c. That about as cold as anybody will ride. When I got back battery said 13c. Interesting motor was at 27c. So as long as battery is warm before you go you can ride in any temps battery will be fine. As long as you don't stop riding for to long and at colder temps you will not want to stop to long. Also if you charge battery right before leaving it will warm battery to 22c before leaving. It also takes a long time to warm up battery. Took like 4 hours at room temp of 20c for battery to go from 12c to 18c.

 

[whitymon]

The recommendation of 0-20c degree is for storage not when it is not used.

That said, the battery just does not perform as good either in very cold or hot condition, this is just pure chemistry, they work best from 15-35c

When solid state battery will arrive to us common people, this will be a huge game changer (operating, charging etc).

 

[irie]

The recommendation of 0-20c degree is for storage not when it is not used.

That said, the battery just does not perform as good either in very cold or hot condition, this is just pure chemistry, they work best from 15-35c

When solid state battery will arrive to us common people, this will be a huge game changer (operating, charging etc).

And weight for sure.

 

[Tom Sellers]

The previously mentioned internal resistance means that the battery produces heat when in use. Because the amount of heat is proportional to the square of the current, climbing hills or using a lower PAS generates more heat. Cold increases the internal resistance of Li-Co quite a bit, that's why they prescribe warming the bike battery before charging. LiFePO4 batteries are more tolerant to cold conditions, but you do not typically see them in eBike's because their nominal per cell voltage is 3.2 as opposed to the 3.6 of a Li-Co cell, and you cannot charge a LiFePO4 cell beyond 3.65v, whereas a Li-Co cell can be charged to 4.2.

 

[palmer365]

My iPad has a setting to prolong battery heath to max charge to 80%. Presumably applicable to EMTB batteries too - if you dont mind missing the 20% charge in your ride!

 

[whitymon]

Well it is to limit full cycle and also because you recharge everyday your phone. I do not think this would apply that much if you ride once per week.

There is also some recommendations, eg Tesla, block all charge to max 80 but once a week or two go full 100%.