Bafang Ultra and nothing but!!!

[Neeko DeVinchi]

I'll cut to the point, for any of you out there who has expressed concern that the Bafang Ultra M620/G510 motor has been severely overlooked in terms comparison videos and reviews which attempts to answer the question "which motor is more powerful", fear not, I've got this!!!
I've put my Specialized fleet away (for the moment) and will concentrate on answering any and all enquiries, concerns, misconceptions over the next month or so.

Yes, this will mean that you will see the Ultra motor go up against the Bosch Gen4, Brose 2.1, Yamaha PWX2, Shimano EP8 and, the TQ Motor.

Now, this is where you guys get to play a pivotal role. If you want me to feature the ultra motor doing something insane (E.g. climb the slab, speed test, a thorough breakdown/rebuild, etc), please comment below. I know a fair few of you have asked what makes the Ultra Motor so powerful so expect a full in depth video concerning that.
In the meantime, the 1st of many videos has just been uploaded, you'll see the next Ultra motor emtb next week and the next the week after (I have 4 in total, each are different in terms of spec but all use the same battery). Yes to all my hardtail fans, I even have a hardtail ultra emtb.

Anywho, get involved I'll keep the content coming.

Rock on my riders ?

 

[Neeko DeVinchi]

A YouTuber 'Mark my words" has saved me a job in making a good video explaining how to program the bafang Ultra M620 motor.
For those who aren't aware, most Bafang motors are programmable (beyond the parameters of a display function).
I'll touch up on this more in a future vid but until then, nice vid Mark my words.

 

[Neeko DeVinchi]

In an effort to see whether the Bafang Ultra M620 motor is truly effecient, we take to the trails on a Hardtail ?

 

[Neeko DeVinchi]

I have got to get my hands on this!!!
They're running the ultra motor at 60v, peaking at 1800whrs.

 

[Neeko DeVinchi]

Screw it, I'm busting out the Ultra fleet.
This time, "with upgrades ?".

And I think we'll start with this one

 

[Neeko DeVinchi]

Well, it's near finished in terms of what I set out to achieve. But in a weird way, I've kinda failed to build an Enduro emtb.


Dont get me wrong in terms of numbers regarding travel (160mm out back, 170mm upfront), it is long travel. But in my personal opinion, geometry far outweighs travel. A 65° headtube angle and 75° seat tube angle with a chainstay length of 442mm and a BB height of 342mm (using 27.5x2.5 tyres) is trail bike territory.


Oh well, atleast I can take everything I've learned through building ebikes and apply it to my new frames which also use the M620 Ultra motor.

Still, I can't argue with the end result. This is by far the best emtb I've built with my own two hands......for now

 

[Mabman]

I signed up for the Luna Z1 and got a tracking # for next week delivery. Truthfully I hadn't even considered an Ultra bike as all my other DIY bike have been under 50lbs. My 1000w+ front hub gravel bikes included. I guess I'll find out if I can lift it when I gets here



Luna doesn't list the geo but to my eye it looks a bit more slack in the HA dept. than your latest? Although the STA looks about the same. I'll stick the angle finder on it when it arrives.

If it is quiet and the torque assist works as advertised I'll be happy enough with the motor and the 150/160 sus setup will be fine for my old man wheels on earth needs. I have always had a throttle on my bikes and that as a big requirement. Although I only use them for about 100' per 30miles I find them invaluable to have aboard for the amount of complexity, none, they add.

My hub bikes are capable of over 30 operation but I don't do that much under power as it hurts range too much, not saying DH they don't rip that and beyond. For trail riding even with my TSDZ2 mtb I dial it back when riding tech so I am pretty sure I won't be stressing the motor too much but I'm sure the opportunity on the logging roads by my house the speed will rear up once in awhile....

The 820wh battery is overkill for my usual 30ish mile 3k elevation rides and am going to look into making another smaller and lighter battery for it. I figure I'll be averaging 20wh/mi or so and after riding it for a bit calculate from there. Could probably shed 5 lbs of battery at least. I like how you use the reention style batteries that allow for easy use throughout.

Anyway enjoying your input and keep the rubber side down!

 

[Neeko DeVinchi]

I signed up for the Luna Z1 and got a tracking # for next week delivery. Truthfully I hadn't even considered an Ultra bike as all my other DIY bike have been under 50lbs. My 1000w+ front hub gravel bikes included. I guess I'll find out if I can lift it when I gets here

View attachment 77228

Luna doesn't list the geo but to my eye it looks a bit more slack in the HA dept. than your latest? Although the STA looks about the same. I'll stick the angle finder on it when it arrives.

If it is quiet and the torque assist works as advertised I'll be happy enough with the motor and the 160/150 sus setup will be fine for my old man wheels on earth needs. I have always had a throttle on my bikes and that as a big requirement. Although I only use them for about 100' per 30miles I find them invaluable to have aboard for the amount of complexity, none, they add.

My hub bikes are capable of over 30 operation but I don't do that much under power as it hurts range too much, not saying DH they don't rip that and beyond. For trail riding even with my TSDZ2 mtb I dial it back when riding tech so I am pretty sure I won't be stressing the motor too much but I'm sure the opportunity on the logging roads by my house the speed will rear up once in awhile....

The 820wh battery is overkill for my usual 30ish mile 3k elevation rides and am going to look into making another smaller and lighter battery for it. I figure I'll be averaging 20wh/mi or so and after riding it for a bit calculate from there. Could probably shed 5 lbs of battery at least. I like how you use the reention style batteries that allow for easy use throughout.

Anyway enjoying your input and keep the rubber side down!

I've heard about these newer Luna models. I cant comment on the geo but I'm aware they are now using a metric shock standard of 210mm.

If you bare with me @Mabman, I'll consult my supplier to see if he can provide me with the geo chart of that particular frame.

It's not that dissimilar from the standard Dengfu frames but each iteration reveals a tweek from the last variant

 

[BonBond]

The 820wh battery is overkill for my usual 30ish mile 3k elevation rides and am going to look into making another smaller and lighter battery for it. I figure I'll be averaging 20wh/mi or so and after riding it for a bit calculate from there. Could probably shed 5 lbs of battery at least. I like how you use the reention style batteries that allow for easy use throughout.

Anyway enjoying your input and keep the rubber side down!

Hiya @Mabman, I'm trying to make a decision on battery for my E22 right now and found this post. Your 30ish miles and 3k elevation isn't far away from my typical ride (probably closer to 25miles and 2k elevation here). I'm wondering how you found the 820wh battery on these kind of ride?

 

[Mabman]

Hiya @Mabman, I'm trying to make a decision on battery for my E22 right now and found this post. Your 30ish miles and 3k elevation isn't far away from my typical ride (probably closer to 25miles and 2k elevation here). I'm wondering how you found the 820wh battery on these kind of ride?

Insufficient. I couldn't get much more than 20 miles/2500' out of it here. Not sure what it is with the DengFu supplied battery and some obviously don't find fault with it but it had weak low voltage power and to top that off it would cut off at 43v, even after programming down to 39v LVC, which leaves too much on the table for me especially when you are playing the last bar home game like I did tonight with my 48v 720wh which made it just fine on low voltage with some route taking finesse. That is why I went to the 21700 cell based 52v/48v DT batteries.

 

[BonBond]

Insufficient. I couldn't get much more than 20 miles/2500' out of it here. Not sure what it is with the DengFu supplied battery and some obviously don't find fault with it but it had weak low voltage power and to top that off it would cut off at 43v, even after programming down to 39v LVC, which leaves too much on the table for me especially when you are playing the last bar home game like I did tonight with my 48v 720wh which made it just fine on low voltage with some route taking finesse. That is why I went to the 21700 cell based 52v/48v DT batteries.

Thanks @Mabman, that's really interesting, more food for though and obviously can't ignore different peoples riding styles, weight, tyres, terrain etc. I'm still on the fence....

I'm getting getting >25miles and and >2k elevation out of my 52v, 16.75Ah at the moment, but this in on a BBSHD. The battery is over-engineered and excellent quality (I'm having my new battery built by the same people).

I want to believe that the M620 is more efficient than the BBSHD, and so telling myself that a 48v 16.75 Ah battery will do pretty much the same job, but I'm struggling to find any info on comparative efficiency between the BBSHD and M620.

I've ruled our a soft case battery and just cramming cells into the frame cavity. My dilemma is whether I get a high quality 48v battery built in the stock case now Vs. designing my own/waiting for a 3d printed case that bolts into the frame for a (52v 20Ah using 21700s).

Any thoughts?

 

[Mabman]

I don't know of any actual tests regarding efficiency between the BBSHD and the M620 but it just so happens that my ride the other day was with a friend that had his BBSHD bike with a similar sized battery to yours. It wasn't a very hard ride in that we mainly rode on a beach over the 20+ miles we did at a relatively easy pace but he did note that while I was in Mode 1 of 5 he was in Mode 3 of 9 while riding a one point. I don't know how many wh/mi he ended up using but he did mention he only used like 30% but after topping off mine I calculated that I had used a little under 20wh/mi which is about the best I have achieved with that bike and probably about par with his use.

As far as what battery you should do you are on your own. I made my choice and am very happy with it.

 

[BonBond]

Cheers, after an ebike ride, a few pints of beer and a chat with my consort, I'm taking the plunge...going for a high quality 48v battery in the stock case. I can always head off in another direction later...

'Perfect is the enemy of good' - Voltaire

 

[TeoElFeo]

A question about m620. Do they still produce the UART versions or only can? I am considering building a Dengfu e22 with custom 52v battery. It is important that the motor would be highly tunable with an ability to have a very economical PAS level as well as beast mode that would allow blasting up the hills.

 

[Neeko DeVinchi]

Hi @TeoElFeo,
Whilst Bafang are only making the M620s using the CANBus protocol, you can still buy the UART variants.

Green Bike Kits sells both.

Titan Pro only sells UART.

Hope this helps

 

[TeoElFeo]

Thank you! Very helpful indeed! I am thinking of squeezing in a 14s4p 21700 battery. Do you think I could possibly put more if no hard case is used? Maybe 13s5p? Also does it need some fw/sw update in order to handle 52v instead of 48v?

 

[TeoElFeo]

@Neeko DeVinchi Do you have any experience with the Innotrace controller? Do you believe it really gives better torque sensing and smoother predictable power delivery? Or similar characteristics can be achieved with the right parameter settings on the stock controller? Also what do you think about their claim that controller is more power efficienct?

 

[Neeko DeVinchi]

I do have experience with the innotrace controller @TeoElFeo.

Technically, my Tsunami runs that same controller. However, I never used it in the way most would.

Essentially, the controller allows you to pump more amps through the motor. Thereby allowing you to push similar power to that of a Sur Ron.

I have seen examples where users have been successful in pushing 14kw of power when paired with a custom 72v battery.

Truth be told the more power 'any' motor kicks out, the less natural it will feel. Which is why I never installed one on my E22.

That's not to say that it wouldn't work, but usually I only see those controllers on ebikes like Seroxat Hybrid etc.

Watt Wagon's Hydra uses the controller. But even with the 52v battery, the performance benefits would be superseded by the range reduction.

 

[TeoElFeo]

Thank you for your reply. But what if we keep the battery 48/52 and the controller at a reasonable 1700w peak? I have no interested in pumping thousands of watts, just getting a more refined and controllable ride feel..