Badly worn chain/drivetrain what will happen?

[-Matt]

So having done 1500 miles in 6 months on my Cube Stereo 160, replaced 4 chains at 25%.

I decided on the last change that it will be the last chain for the cassette, and will run it to death, then replace the chain/cassette/chain ring.

Its now between 75% and 1.0% on my chain checker.

Its not as smooth at changing as it once was, but still functions.

So what will the end game be? just the chain snapping? and getting rougher and rougher at changing? or will something bad happen?

 

[Zimmerframe]

There is a theory that once the chain/chainring and cassette all reach maximum wear - a black hole will form. In the first few seconds, the bike, your house, everyone you know will vanish and cease to exist. Rapidly followed by the rest of the planet, the galaxy you know and love, swiftly followed by much of the Milky way.

The other theory is that the chain will start to slip, mainly in the 10/11/12 tooth cogs first. At some point you may have to change the cassette, chain and chainring. Assuming we're all still alive.

 

[Stihldog]

That black hole thing can be really bad .

For my style of riding, 1 chainring for every 2-3 cassettes. 1 cassette for every 3-4 chains. 1 chain for every 1500-2000 km. But everyone is different.

Black hole …hopefully never.

 

[Plummet]

That's typically my modus operandi on every chain/cassette/chainring.
The shifting gets worse and the chain will start to skip on the back and fall off the front chanting. At that point replace the lot and start again.

 

[Nicho]

At some point you may have to change the cassette, chain and chainring.

You forgot to mention that if it gets to that stage then the black hole will swallow his wallet.

 

[Growmac]

Eventually you'll get slippage under load, or the chain will snap. Then you'll become substantially poorer than you were before.

 

[billwarwick]

There is a theory that once the chain/chainring and cassette all reach maximum wear - a black hole will form. In the first few seconds, the bike, your house, everyone you know will vanish and cease to exist. Rapidly followed by the rest of the planet, the galaxy you know and love, swiftly followed by much of the Milky way.

The other theory is that the chain will start to slip, mainly in the 10/11/12 tooth cogs first. At some point you may have to change the cassette, chain and chainring. Assuming we're all still alive.

But we can rest safe in the knowledge that some of Hodge’s photos will survive. There’s too many for even a black hole to swallow.

 

[-Matt]

Thanks guys, just seen Merlin Cycles has a deal on with Shimano at the moment, so just ordered a M6100 Cassette for £69, and chain for £16 which seems a good deal.

So may just get it fitted and get a nice smooth gear change back.

May have to try the existing chain ring and see if its ok, as struggling to find a replacement. Its a E*Thirteen 36T, which everyone seems to be out of stock of...


But the real black hole seemed to be my front brake (M6120) which decided to fail at 417 bike park today, pissing all the fluid out of the piston!! Not a good feeling while sending it down hill, squeeze the brake and nothing happens

Hoping its a case of my VERY worn pads caused the piston to over extend??

 

[JP-NZ]

So having done 1500 miles in 6 months on my Cube Stereo 160, replaced 4 chains at 25%.

FWIW if your on 12 speed replace chains at 50% if your on 9/10 speed replace at 75%

1500 miles should be two chains max IMO

 

[James_C]

I'd suggest just buy the new chain/cassette and have it on the shelf at home to swap out when the existing one slips.

I measured a new chain once. It measured 0.5! At that point I stopped bothering with the chain wear tool. I just rotate with 2 chains, and change the cassette and 2 x chains when I get some chain slip.

 

[steve_sordy]

@-Matt Keep the 1st chain at 25%, and the subsequent ones too. When you get to replacing number 4, put the 1st one back on and run it to 50%. Keep going and run through all four, then return to the first chain again and run to 75%. It will be interesting to see how far you can go before the whole drive train packs up.

I am not winding you up, the theory (proven in fact, actually) is that chains and gears wear into each other and rub along quite well. Overall, you should get better life all round. The upside is that you save on chains, the downside is that you have to replace the final lot in one go.

Personally, I have never managed to get past chain number three before I sold the bike. But that was on an mtb, not an emtb. (And I was changing at 60%-65%).

What I do now is to use a high-quality chain and keep it clean and well lubed. They seem to last for ages and ages.

Note 1: You may find that running a new chain on a worn ring or cassette will not go well. The chain will slip over the gears with an unpleasant bang.
Note 2: When you say "replaced at 25%", I take you to mean 0.25%, as in the chain is 0.25% longer.) I replied using your notation.

 

[-Matt]

Well my front brake failure is not good news, just had things apart. Firstly noticed 1 piston would not retract, and wobbled a lot compared to the others, managed to get the piston out, and found the rear of the piston has crumbled!

Going by the state of the brake pad wear, i suspect its been broken for a while....

Since Shimano appear to not sell spare pistons, have just ordered a new M6120 caliper for £60.

At least i will have some spare pistons incase it happens again!

 

[jimbob]

I think you can buy spare ones on ali express? I'm sure I've seen some videos where people have used them and found them to be OK.

 

[Giff]

That's typically my modus operandi on every chain/cassette/chainring.
The shifting gets worse and the chain will start to skip on the back and fall off the front chanting. At that point replace the lot and start again.

What is it chanting……”please help me”…..

 

[Alexbn921]

That is normal pad wear, even with the different sized pistons. I rotate my pads to make them wear evenly and extend there life.

 

[Turbo Mike]

Well my front brake failure is not good news, just had things apart. Firstly noticed 1 piston would not retract, and wobbled a lot compared to the others, managed to get the piston out, and found the rear of the piston has crumbled!
View attachment 115644

Going by the state of the brake pad wear, i suspect its been broken for a while....
View attachment 115645

Since Shimano appear to not sell spare pistons, have just ordered a new M6120 caliper for £60.

At least i will have some spare pistons incase it happens again!

I had a very similar failure mode on the piston (cracked edges). I attributed to my clumsy pushback of the pistons during a new set of pads and a bleeding. I did order replacement parts from Ali express. Takes a while to receive ( appx 3 weeks). I also bought a replacement caliper in the interim (save rebuild for a rainy day - Not common here in AZ). Is the broken piston a common problem? Comments?

 

[Tepi]

@-Matt Pidä ensimmäinen ketju 25 %:ssa ja myös seuraavat. Kun pääset korvaamaan numeron 4, laita ensimmäinen takaisin päälle ja käytä sitä 50 %:iin. Jatka ja juokse kaikkien neljän läpi, palaa sitten takaisin ensimmäiseen ketjuun ja juokse 75 prosenttiin. On mielenkiintoista nähdä, kuinka pitkälle voit mennä ennen kuin koko voimansiirto on täynnä.

En tyrmää sinua, teoria (itse asiassa todistettu) on, että ketjut ja vaihteet kuluvat toisiinsa ja hankaavat melko hyvin. Kaiken kaikkiaan sinun pitäisi saada parempaa elämää kaikin puolin. Hyvä puoli on, että säästät ketjuissa, haittapuoli on, että sinun on vaihdettava lopullinen erä kerralla.

Henkilökohtaisesti en ole koskaan onnistunut ohittamaan ketjua numero kolme ennen kuin myin pyörän. Mutta se oli mtb:ssä, ei emtb:ssä. (Ja vaihdoin 60–65 %).

Käytän nyt korkealaatuista ketjua ja pidän sen puhtaana ja hyvin voideltuna. Ne näyttävät kestävän iät ja iät.

Huomautus 1: Saatat huomata, että uuden ketjun käyttäminen kuluneen renkaan tai kasetin päälle ei onnistu. Ketju luistaa vaihteiden yli epämiellyttävällä pamahduksella.
Huomautus 2: Kun sanot "vaihdettu 25 %:lla", tarkoitan sinun tarkoittavan 0,25 %, koska ketjussa on 0,25 % pidempi.) Vastasin käyttämällä merkintääsi.

Lopettakaa öljynkäyttö joka paskaa ja likaa koko voimansiirtonne.Ketjuvahassa on tulevaisuus. Edut,ei kerää likaa ,käsittely aika 400km,MTB käytössä.Vaha on kirkas tuote voitelee hyvin.Käsittelin kahdet ketjut samalla ,uusin koko voimansiirron.Ensi ketjulla ajettu 250km, käsien koskematta. Koko voimansiirto puhdas ketjut takapakka vaihtajan rissat.Perustuu uusien ketjujen rasvanpoistoon,15 min,lämmitykseen 60-80 c ,ketjuja liikutellaan lanka pitimellä. Uusia kuvia asiasta 400 km, ilman mitään pesua,pyyhintää.

 

[steve_sordy]

Stop using oil that craps and dirty your entire transmission. Chain wax has the future. Advantages, doesn't collect dirt, processing time 400km, MTB in use. The wax is a clear product that lubricates well. I treated two chains at the same time, renewed the entire transmission. The first chain was driven 250km, without touching it. The entire transmission is clean, the chains are on the back of the derailleur. It is based on the degreasing of new chains, 15 min, heating at 60-80 c, the chains are moved with a wire holder. New pictures about it 400 km, without any washing, wiping.

View attachment 115897 View attachment 115898

There are lots of threads on here in support of using wax for chain lubrication. In addition, there are research papers that support the use of wax. I know in my brain that you are all correct, but I'm getting good results with conventional oil and I can't be arsed to go with wax.

 

[steve_sordy]

By the way @Tepi, when using Google Translate to understand your reply, I discovered that "Tepi" is Finnish for "Edge". Who knew?

 

[Tepi]

Täällä on paljon lankoja, jotka tukevat vahan käyttöä ketjujen voiteluun. Lisäksi on olemassa tutkimuspapereita, jotka tukevat vahan käyttöä. Tiedän aivoissani, että olette kaikki oikeassa, mutta saan hyviä tuloksia tavanomaisella öljyllä, enkä voi olla vahalla.yöräyttää silmiä:

Steve toiset haluaa liata kätensä,niin minäkin kymmeniä vuosia.

 

[mtb-steve]

My dad's still using the original 12 speed shimano cassette at 3k km, several chains and he's just changed the chain ring.
Just use it with new chains until the small sprockets start slipping, then fit the whole lot. All this crap about so many chains per cassette doesn't mean anything, if you ride in clean dry conditions the whole lot will last far longer than someone who rides in sloppy sandy mud.

 

[jimbob]

My dad's still using the original 12 speed shimano cassette at 3k km, several chains and he's just changed the chain ring.
Just use it with new chains until the small sprockets start slipping, then fit the whole lot. All this crap about so many chains per cassette doesn't mean anything, if you ride in clean dry conditions the whole lot will last far longer than someone who rides in sloppy sandy mud.

After getting fed up of wearing chains out so quickly (less than 100mi at times in the winter) I set out on a bit of a mission to extend chain life. The 2 major conclusions I've come to are;

1) hot wax the chain
2) don't ride in wet sloppy mud.
3) if you ignore 2, nothing else will help

 

[RustyMTB]

Wearing a chain out in under 100 miles means something else is going on irrespective of the weather. Not even blasting through the Datchworth salt mines in a flood will do that to a chain.

 

[jimbob]

Thin muddy slop which gets right inside the rolers - just acts like grinding paste. 100mi can easily be almost 10hrs of riding, with a fine grinding paste inside its easy to wear to 0.5% in that time.

 

[jcismo1]

It’s funny! I was talking to my brother the other day about this subject and we were talking about the bikes we had as kids. I had a schwinn 5 speed fastback. We rode bikes ALL the time. That’s all we did as kids back then. I would say that I had 10’s of thousands of miles on it before it was finally stolen. Never changed the chain, chainring or rear cogs and never had any issues with it. I did oil the chain with some form of motor oil regularly though. Lol!

 

[Stihldog]

What is it chanting……”please help me”…..

If it helps …I’m gonna start chanting during a ride .

Any suggestions would help!

 

[BeBiker]

... if you ride in clean dry conditions the whole lot will last far longer than someone who rides in sloppy sandy mud.

Into mud/rain/sand/dust with the 12sp 10-51t, that's me.

Every time I put a new chain, I also replace the 10t+12t cogs.
Those cost 18 euro for the set, in the strange occasion of being widely available.

Last time, I also changed the other separate gears, 14-16-18 cost 3 euro each.
No need to change the fixed 21-24-28-33-39-45-51 block, those have so many teeth they never skip.

The front chainring is a steel e*13 that seems to last forever.

 

[Truckbiker]

I normally ride now about 3.5 k with one chain, now with the 8100 chain, it makes 1 k km more with me, additionally I use a dry lube (something with Teflon or keramic), my chain looks every time clean and tidy, even after 500 km without lube! And I am riding in the winter with snow and also in the mud!
I have changed the 14 - 18 t sprockets at the cassette two times in 13 k km, I have now two spare cassettes and every second chain I use a new / renewed cassette and it's working fine with me and my money didn't vanish in a black hole?
I didn't have any problems with my brakes so far, but it's also only about 3 k til the first pads are gone.
I tried some different pads - organic and (with the brake disc changed (R64)) some metal ones, theese are staying longer but it's nerving with the noise, so I got back to organic (tr!ckstuff power) But my pads are also wearing some bit on one side?
Also my chain wheel (38 t) has made about 10k without problems, now I have a spider with an 40 t garbaruk, that's fine with me and I haven't seen any extra wear.
So I think there is nothing better than trying out what fits for you, but I would not going to something, that crushes things without need??