Levo Gen 3 Bad front feeling

[Gropec]

Hi all,

I have a turbo levo comp carbon S3 for my 1m77, since 1 month
I love this bike, the best bike i have ever had so far.

Bike configuration is :

Fork olhins 38 M.2 170mm ( maybe this is the problem )

Rear shock Olhins ttx 22 coil
Spring is good for my weight

Stem 45mm

780 mm oneup bar

Front Tire Michelin enduro racing line 2.4 at 1.3 or 1.4 bars )
Rear swchable big betty 2.6 at 1.7 bars ( i am waiting the Michelin DH 34 2.4 )

Since the day one i feel a weird sensation with the front of the bike, in the tight corner either i lost the grip and fall down or either i do an OTB if i turn too much the bar.
I never felt this on any of my previous bike.
I tried many fork set up and it help a bit but the feeling is still the same.
I also put the head angle to 63° and it help me a lot to keep a good feeling onto the front.
To compensate this problem i am to put all my weight onto the rear during cornering and my arms are stretched out and it's hard to steer the bike

I have no other complain, i love this bike especially on my super steep rocky downhill here in south of France

I am very frustated as the bike is so amazing

I am wondering is the 10mm plus travel of my fork can lead to this strange feeling?

I have also tried different front tire pressure and also different shim size under the stem wich only help on climb

If you have any ideas?
I am lost

 

[Ou812]

I had the same issues on a previous bike, I couldn’t weight the front end enough. It felt great riding around the parking lot but I had the same issues you’re experiencing once I got it out on the trails. I was between frame sizes and took everyone’s advice and sized up, that ended up being my problem. I went back down a frame size with a longer stem and it was perfect.

 

[Mikerb]

Loosing grip on a corner could be lack of low speed compression on the forks, or rebound set too slow.............over steering/tucking under could be due to the same fork tune........................or ..........are your replacement forks the same offset as the originals?

 

[Gropec]

Loosing grip on a corner could be lack of low speed compression on the forks, or rebound set too slow.............over steering/tucking under could be due to the same fork tune........................or ..........are your replacement forks the same offset as the originals?

Hey Mikeb, yes same offset 44mm.
I will try to play with low speed compression
About the rebound i am almost fully open, 4 clicks left

 

[Mikerb]

Assuming you are weighting the front end on a corner and leaning the bike rather than yourself, one reason to lose grip is the tyre not maintaining contact with the ground. Typically on a corner the front end is not heavilly compressed and suspension characteristics required are reasonable levels of low speed compression with matching rebound. Too little LSC will allow the wheel to bounce and not settle........to much rebound will make the fork too stiff, too little rebound will make the wheel/tyre skip. 170mm front travel will have raised the front of the bike so have you readjusted the cockpit accordingly? Your centre of mass will now be a little further back........you can reset that by moving your saddle a little forward on its rails and rolling your bars forward a little............or just be aware that your centre of mass is now a little further back and compensate. Are you cornering seated or up on the pedals?

 

[Gropec]

Assuming you are weighting the front end on a corner and leaning the bike rather than yourself, one reason to lose grip is the tyre not maintaining contact with the ground. Typically on a corner the front end is not heavilly compressed and suspension characteristics required are reasonable levels of low speed compression with matching rebound. Too little LSC will allow the wheel to bounce and not settle........to much rebound will make the fork too stiff, too little rebound will make the wheel/tyre skip. 170mm front travel will have raised the front of the bike so have you readjusted the cockpit accordingly? Your centre of mass will now be a little further back........you can reset that by moving your saddle a little forward on its rails and rolling your bars forward a little............or just be aware that your centre of mass is now a little further back and compensate. Are you cornering seated or up on the pedals?

Mikerb,

I take the corner always up on the pedals !
I have tested many shims height under the stem, i have now 2 shims, aprox 1 cm under the stem.
My LBS has intalled a 40mm stem instead of the 50mm delivered with the bike, i will put back the 50mm one and see if it help

 

[Bndit]

I think the biggest cause is the longer fork, if you can adjust it to 160mm it's good start. Other thing might be that (at least what I have heard and read) that Öhlins are tricky to adjust and even when they dialed perfectly, they still require pro level rider to get most of it.

 

[Chrysaor]

I think the biggest cause is the longer fork, if you can adjust it to 160mm it's good start. Other thing might be that (at least what I have heard and read) that Öhlins are tricky to adjust and even when they dialed perfectly, they still require pro level rider to get most of it.

I agree with Bndit,

when increasing my fork travel from 160 to 170mm I have found it harder to put enough weight on the front tire except on very steep terrain. I actually prefer 160mm in my case

 

[irie]

first! If your front tire is 1.3/1.4 bar that’s insanely too low pressure unless you weigh 40kg Or ride like a 90 year old that’s half blind. Likely your front tire is folding under And causing you to wipe out. My minimum front pressure is 1.51 bar!! And 1.7 for harder riding up to 2 for legit stuff.

when you ride turns you generally want to be in a neutral position on your bike pointing your bellybutton to the exit (the rest will follow). Bermed turns you can weight the back much more to schralp for a quicker turn….but you’re clearly not riding like that at your granny pressures.

Agree with this

 

[Gropec]

@Bndit @Chrysaor , i think you are right about the fork stroke, 170 seems to be too big...
@Bndit , for the olhins setup, it is not my first olhins fork, i rode it since last 2 years with very good result, TBH i realy love this fork !!!
i am not a pro rider but i realy ride hard here in south of France, regulary TOP 10 on scratch in local competions.
i also finished 9 in my class MEN 35+ in E- Ews Valberg this years in categiry E-100.

@BAMBAMODA , I always ride between 1.3 bars and 1.4 Bars on my front wheels without any insert and i NEVER had any issue with the rims.......
I weight around 80kgs with équipements....
One thing sure is i do not ride like a 90 tears old guys !!!!
If you come here one day in south of france i will show you

NEW UPDATE:
I put the original 50mm stem, my lbs put directly the 40mm instead of the 50 and never tried the 50mm before... and it is NIGHT AND DAY !!!!!
I now in confidence with my front end, i have tored all my strava time, even so with the very very dry conditions.

Thanks to everybody to have taken the time to reply me !!!

Bike is life!!!!

 

[irie]

@Bndit @Chrysaor , i think you are right about the fork stroke, 170 seems to be too big...
@Bndit , for the olhins setup, it is not my first olhins fork, i rode it since last 2 years with very good result, TBH i realy love this fork !!!
i am not a pro rider but i realy ride hard here in south of France, regulary TOP 10 on scratch in local competions.
i also finished 9 in my class MEN 35+ in E- Ews Valberg this years in categiry E-100.

@BAMBAMODA , I always ride between 1.3 bars and 1.4 Bars on my front wheels without any insert and i NEVER had any issue with the rims.......
I weight around 80kgs with équipements....
One thing sure is i do not ride like a 90 tears old guys !!!!
If you come here one day in south of france i will show you

NEW UPDATE:
I put the original 50mm stem, my lbs put directly the 40mm instead of the 50 and never tried the 50mm before... and it is NIGHT AND DAY !!!!!
I now in confidence with my front end, i have tored all my strava time, even so with the very very dry conditions.

Thanks to everybody to have taken the time to reply me !!!

Bike is life!!!!

So you now have 10mm longer forks and 10mm shorter stem? ...

 

[Gropec]

So you now have 10mm longer forks and 10mm shorter stem? ...

At the beginning yes, i let all my stuff to my LBS and it is him who have put the 40mm with my 170mm fork

 

[Alexbn921]

longer frame = less weight on front.
Longer fork = less weight on front.
Higher bars = less weight on front.
Shorter stem = less weight on front.
Short rear stays = less weight on front.
lots of rear sag = less weight on front.

Start with lowering the bars by removing spacers under the stem. Also move your feet forward on the pedals by sliding cleats all the way back or just moving your feet on flats. Then add air to your rear shock or increase your rear spring.

Next lower fork travel by 10mm.

Next would be a longer stem.

Tire pressure is fine. I run 19-21psi in my front tire.

 

[Gropec]

A lot of things don’t add up. Never seen someone race with a 2.6 rear and 2.4 front. This usually makes turning slower and steepens the HA of the bike .~4”

i Understand he’s using a translator but it seems he increased his front end height 1cm by fork and another by spacer which brings his handlebars back 2cm And had either 45 or 40mm stem installed by bike store over his stock 150mm. And slackened his bike to 63 def which also brings the handlebars back some.

now in 2 days he’s broke all of his Strava records with his handlebars still 1cm more to the rear than when it was stock.

it just isn’t logical. Also if he turns the bars too much he OTBs. Which means a high side crash and when you turn at speed generally you lean a bike and there’s less turning of the bars. Also he was turning with his arms stretched out which makes no sense for someone who’s an EWR-E top ten.

just doesn’t add up

pretty sure it’s pointless to discuss

As i said to my 1st post, I AM WAITING my DH34 2.4 rear tire !!!!
So, it is logical no?

Since today, where i put the 50mm stem instead of 40 put by my LBS it is MUCH BETTER !!!!!
I don't use a translator but i should have to
And when you talk about me, you can whrite my name, i am there , you can talk to me man!!
I am here to find some help about how to setup a bike which i ride 3 times!!
I am not here to take a leason even if i need it.
Social network is still the same all around the world, there is always someone who try to critical !!!
And yes i did a top 9 in E Ews en i am pround about it my friend !!!! Especially after only 2 years on a e bike, never ride a analogue bike since i had 13 years old.
I have juste a solid background with enduro mortorcycle!!
I juste ask some opinion because geimetry of bike is new for me, that’s it!!

 

[Gropec]

longer frame = less weight on front.
Longer fork = less weight on front.
Higher bars = less weight on front.
Shorter stem = less weight on front.
Short rear stays = less weight on front.
lots of rear sag = less weight on front.

Start with lowering the bars by removing spacers under the stem. Also move your feet forward on the pedals by sliding cleats all the way back or just moving your feet on flats. Then add air to your rear shock or increase your rear spring.

Next lower fork travel by 10mm.

Next would be a longer stem.

Tire pressure is fine. I run 19-21psi in my front tire.

Thanks for all the explanations.
Today, additionally to the 50mm stem i changed, i also lowered the stem ( i have forgotten to mention it ) and i think the combination of this 2 changes has done an hudge improvement of my front feeling

 

[Gropec]

no worries man. I didn’t mean to offend you. Your bike is working as you like now. Keep shredding

 

[Mikerb]

bike set up is a subject that has always interested me and whilst it is probably not completely relevant for the OP what I have found is that there are 2 sets of variables involved. The first....and I mean variables between different bikes mostly..........is the geo of the bike and guys above have set out what they are and some change if you alter things like fork travel etc. Some bikes ( including the Levo) let you alter some aspects of geo of course. The second is cockpit fit.......bar rise, saddle position and tilt, stem length. I think suspension set up front and rear also falls into this category because more or less SAG and more or less compression impacts on ride height front to rear.

For me the impact of both categories is where my centre of mass ends up both when seated and when up on the pedals and that in turn impacts on pedal efficiency when seated, the ability to easilly move my centre of mass forward or back for trail riding, the a bility to keep the front down when climbing and the ability to be secure when descending. I typically have to alter every bike I ride to achieve that because I am tall ( 6ft) but with long legs ( 34 inch inseam) and a relatively short torso.

Going back to the OP it seemed to me that raising the front end on a mullet bike perhaps combined with suspension settings pushed his centre of mass too far back to be a ble to dominate the front end.............ps I also agree with @BAMBAMODA that low front tyre pressures ( depending on the specific tyre) is likely to make it squirm on hard ground corners. I typically run 24 psi at the front for most conditions ( 2.4 Assegai)

 

[Pauliemon]

bike set up is a subject that has always interested me

I bet! You're pretty damn good at it.

 

[militantmandy]

first! If your front tire is 1.3/1.4 bar that’s insanely too low pressure unless you weigh 40kg Or ride like a 90 year old that’s half blind.

This is just not true. 19/20psi MIGHT be too low for some people, in some situations. But the above statement is just nonsense.

 

[Renton]

Ive stuck a 170mm fork on both my Levos and found it to be excellent. Not had any issues with front end grip apart from on the steepest of climbs.

 

[militantmandy]

Agree to disagree?

This being an Ebike forum I speak in considerations of the mass of us Ebikers and we very typically heavier.
now of course if a rider weighs less then their pressure can be less;
- Tire pressure is generically based on system weight.
obviously a varying mathematical matrix of tire casing, trail types and a riders skill/demand are the major factors that cause the greatest same-system weight tire pressure variations. The largest is the riders demand on their tire which is based on skill and inversely low skill also has a higher demand due to poor line choice And poor rider rhythm.

my statement is not nonsense for the typical users on this forum. easily Weekly there are posts about tire pressure and people talking how they got snake bites or even damaged rims and almost always they’re running tire pressures for 120lb riders and are not 120lb riders. Typically they don’t have the rider skill to place the demand on their tires while on their weekly rides so they get away with low pressures until they find that street-curb-like rock on trail, often after a jump or area where you g-out And then pay the consequence.
if I worked for the tire companies I’d propagate the low pressures many are using on this forum who are not 120lb riders. But I don’t and newer riders are constantly ruining awesome rides by damaging rims and killing tires.

What you've written above is perfectly reasonable. "that’s insanely too low pressure unless you weigh 40kg" is definitely nonsense.

 

[Alexbn921]

Ive stuck a 170mm fork on both my Levos and found it to be excellent. Not had any issues with front end grip apart from on the steepest of climbs.

What size are you riding? If you saw my list, all the factors add up. The biggest one being the ratio of rear to front length. I have 520mm reach with a 63 HTA, this significantly messes up the weight balance and I need to do everything possible to counteract it.

If your on a medium, then your weight balance is in the sweet spot and small changes don't matter as much.

 

[Alexbn921]

This is just not true. 19/20psi MIGHT be too low for some people, in some situations. But the above statement is just nonsense.

I'm 200lb and run the lowest I can get away with19F/21R. How you ride has a big difference on what pressures you need. Some riders just ride light or don't have lots of sharp rocks to worry about. I'm also on 2.8 tires .

Less pressure = more traction
Too low = tire folding and rim damage.

I have always put too much pressure in and then slowly lowered it until the biggest G out or fastest corner started to fold the tire. Then add 1-2psi. If you are riding a particularly rocky place or out on an epic backcountry, then adding a couple psi is a good insurance policy.

 

[Renton]

What size are you riding? If you saw my list, all the factors add up. The biggest one being the ratio of rear to front length. I have 520mm reach with a 63 HTA, this significantly messes up the weight balance and I need to do everything possible to counteract it.

If your on a medium, then your weight balance is in the sweet spot and small changes don't matter as much.

I ride S5

 

[Topolino]

Hey Mikeb, yes same offset 44mm.
I will try to play with low speed compression
About the rebound i am almost fully open, 4 clicks left

I did the same (Rockshox SID), reduced pressure and added a couple of click towards the rabbit side