Average mileage from a chain?

[Northumbrian]

I know there are many factors to the question, but it would be interesting to understand this and what chain is the best value for money.
Here’s away,... 75% wear @ 450 miles, on a KMC x11. Never abused and always cleaned and lubed, most use is eco and a bit of trail ( shimano 8000) oh and it’s hauling 16stone
Thought I might have got a bit more !

 

[steve_sordy]

I have tried a variety of chains, on a variety of bikes (HT and FS), all speeds from 9-11 (that I have records for, I used to ride a 2x5-speed ages ago, before moving on to a 3x7). I always got between 550 and 650 miles out of a chain, changing at 0.6% to 0.65%. I always got three chains per cassette. Mostly sandy terrain, the chain was always wiped clean and lubed after every ride. I ride all year round; dust, mud, snow, rain etc. I could never detect any correlation between miles and %, nor miles and chain brand (although I later switched to Shimano). But there was a correlation between winter miles and faster wear (now there's a surprise!)

Then I bought a bike with the SRAM Eagle 12-speed kit on it. The chain is XX1. The chain refuses to wear out! Currently it has done 1458 miles and has 0.25% stretch. Riding in the same sort of places and with the same 14.5 stone lump astride it. All the gears still look good, probably because the chain is still good. No problems with shifting, as long as the mech remains properly aligned.

I have always had mechanical sympathy when shifting and I don't "hero heave" up the climbs, preferring to spin up whilst seated if possible.

Edit: all the above data is from clockwork bikes. When I last checked the Shimano 11-speed chain it was 0.39% at 379 miles, all Jan - Apr (I'm in UK, so the winter).

 

[JimBo]

I read somewhere that 11 speed chains should be swapped at 0.5%, while 10 and under can go to 0.75%.

Using this guideline, I've found that, on my eMTBs in my hilly area, I get about 200-250 miles from my 11 speeds, but closer to 400 on my 10 speeds. On my Bulls w/Brose 11 speed, I've gone through 5 chains on my original cassette with no shifting or skipping issues thus far, knock wood.

 

[steve_sordy]

I read somewhere that 11 speed chains should be swapped at 0.5%, while 10 and under can go to 0.75%.

.................

I have never come across that before; something like that should have been picked up in the MTB magazines for sure. However, I can see why someone might believe it's a good idea. The chain is narrower than a ten-speed, so the force applied by the chain is spread over a smaller area of the tooth. As the chain wears, it slowly reduces the number of teeth it has in contact with the gears. This may take several chains to show up, but eventually the gears will start to generate burrs as the tooth material is pushed to the side. I can see (just) how this may happen sooner with a narrower chain. But it hasn't happened on my 12-speed! I believe the reason for this is that the SRAM XX1 chain is stronger & harder and does not wear as quickly. Back to the statement. This early renewal may be required on cheap chains that wear quickly to avoid damaging the gears. I don't know this to be true, I'm just trying to explain it.

 

[Northumbrian]

I read somewhere that 11 speed chains should be swapped at 0.5%, while 10 and under can go to 0.75%.

Using this guideline, I've found that, on my eMTBs in my hilly area, I get about 200-250 miles from my 11 speeds, but closer to 400 on my 10 speeds. On my Bulls w/Brose 11 speed, I've gone through 5 chains on my original cassette with no shifting or skipping thus far, knock wood.

I heard the same about 11 speed needing changing at 50%..... deffo looking to reduce to 10 or even 8 speed next big change ( my road bike is 8 speed cassette and the chain is so much chunkier)

 

[HikerDave]

I know there are many factors to the question, but it would be interesting to understand this and what chain is the best value for money.
Here’s away,... 75% wear @ 450 miles, on a KMC x11. Never abused and always cleaned and lubed, most use is eco and a bit of trail ( shimano 8000) oh and it’s hauling 16stone
Thought I might have got a bit more !

Either you are doing something wrong like leaving solvent in the chain or have some muddy trails and seriously abrasive soil. I have 1600 miles on my chain and can’t detect any wear on my first chain using the eyeball and 12 inch rule method. Probably 500 miles of my riding is on dry and rocky trails and the rest on road; no more than an hour or so in the rain, though.

I have a suspicion about chain cleaning; it seems to me that people who report high chain wear also report high chain care; but maybe your conditions require that.

 

[DK_EBIKER]

Personlly i jump between to sets of chains, and i works perfectlly at least for me
I dont think there is an average on chains. it depents alot on the rider. how he rides, cleaning, brand of lube ect. ect.

 

[steve_sordy]

Having to change 11-speed chains at 0.5%....

Is it rumoured to be true, or is it just true it's a rumour?

Can anyone link to any authoritative site?

 

[JimBo]

I have never come across that before; something like that should have been picked up in the MTB magazines for sure. However, I can see why someone might believe it's a good idea. The chain is narrower than a ten-speed, so the force applied by the chain is spread over a smaller area of the tooth. As the chain wears, it slowly reduces the number of teeth it has in contact with the gears. This may take several chains to show up, but eventually the gears will start to generate burrs as the tooth material is pushed to the side. I can see (just) how this may happen sooner with a narrower chain. But it hasn't happened on my 12-speed! I believe the reason for this is that the SRAM XX1 chain is stronger & harder and does not wear as quickly. Back to the statement. This early renewal may be required on cheap chains that wear quickly to avoid damaging the gears. I don't know this to be true, I'm just trying to explain it.

Just an FYI; SRAM's EX1 8 speed drivetrain uses 10 speed chains. I've been getting upwards of 500 miles from the EX1 chain, but wonder if the XX1 comes in 10 speed...

 

[steve_sordy]

Just an FYI; SRAM's EX1 8 speed drivetrain uses 10 speed chains. I've been getting upwards of 500 miles from the EX1 chain, but wonder if the XX1 comes in 10 speed...

Not that I've heard, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist, or something like it anyway. Maybe the clue is in the name "EX1"?
Don't forget that the gear teeth on the Eagle system are different to lower speed chains. I am assuming that the combination of chain and tooth design are working together to get extended life.

 

[JimBo]

Having to change 11-speed chains at 0.5%....

Is it rumoured to be true, or is it just true it's a rumour?

Can anyone link to any authoritative site?

See the last paragraph of section 4 here:
When to Replace a Worn Chain

 

[steve_sordy]

Thanks for that @JimBo

Well, Park Tool are certainly authoritative enough. I notice that they say to replace 11 AND 12-speed at 0.5%, not just 11-speed.

But they don't explain why.

 

[thewildblue]

My first 11 speed chain was shagged at 600 miles, just slightly under 1%. This was with trying proper chain lube. I'm now on my 2nd chain, its done over 700 miles and is not quite at .5%. This is riding in sticky mud, doing mega steep climbs in turbo etc. This time round I've only used GT85 as a lube, thats it.

 

[JimBo]

My first 11 speed chain was shagged at 600 miles, just slightly under 1%. This was with trying proper chain lube. I'm now on my 2nd chain, its done over 700 miles and is not quite at .5%. This is riding in sticky mud, doing mega steep climbs in turbo etc. This time round I've only used GT85 as a lube, thats it.

I think it depends more on rider weight, cadence when climbing, and average elevation gain per mile than type of lube used, trail conditions and assist levels. I seldom use Turbo/Boost, but frequently reach those levels in Trail/EMTB modes when climbing the many steep climbs on my local trails. I also use quality lubes (MucOff, Boeshield etc.), and the past couple years have had very wet trail conditions.

 

[Northumbrian]

Thanks for that @JimBo

Well, Park Tool are certainly authoritative enough. I notice that they say to replace 11 AND 12-speed at 0.5%, not just 11-speed.

But they don't explain why.

Maybe to sell more chains ? ?

 

[JimBo]

Maybe to sell more chains ? ?

Does Park Tools sell chains?

 

[ottoshape]

Then I bought a bike with the SRAM Eagle 12-speed kit on it. The chain is XX1. The chain refuses to wear out! Currently it has done 1458 miles and has 0.25% stretch.

My XX1 chain is done at 800 miles, >.75% stretch. Admittedly, my maintenance has been poor because I've been sorting out cleaning procedures and finding a lube that works...

 

[JimBo]

Thanks for that @JimBo

Well, Park Tool are certainly authoritative enough. I notice that they say to replace 11 AND 12-speed at 0.5%, not just 11-speed.

But they don't explain why.

YW! My assumption is that 11+ speed chains must be thinner to fit the narrow gaps between all those gears.

 

[steve_sordy]

YW! My assumption is that 11+ speed chains must be thinner to fit the narrow gaps between all those gears.

They are indeed thinner, but that alone is not a reason to change at 0.5% instead of 0.75%. If thinness was the cause of extra wear, then it would wear faster and the 0.75% would happen sooner. I know that the 12-speed chain and tooth profile is of a different design (SRAM say it is, you can see it, and nobody has denied it yet), and I accept that may be a reason. But do SRAM say that? I have not seen anything from Shimano either on their 12-speed kit. I read the MTB press a lot (on and off line) and I have never seen this. I would not associate ParkTool with chain expertise, so I'm wondering where they got the advice from. Is it based upon their experience of servicing bikes? But then again, if they were publicly claiming that all 11 and 12-speed chains don't last as long, then I would have thought the manufacturers would be on them like a ton of bricks. But not so it would seem. Still puzzled.

 

[JimBo]

They are indeed thinner, but that alone is not a reason to change at 0.5% instead of 0.75%. If thinness was the cause of extra wear, then it would wear faster and the 0.75% would happen sooner. I know that the 12-speed chain and tooth profile is of a different design (SRAM say it is, you can see it, and nobody has denied it yet), and I accept that may be a reason. But do SRAM say that? I have not seen anything from Shimano either on their 12-speed kit. I read the MTB press a lot (on and off line) and I have never seen this. I would not associate ParkTool with chain expertise, so I'm wondering where they got the advice from. Is it based upon their experience of servicing bikes? But then again, if they were publicly claiming that all 11 and 12-speed chains don't last as long, then I would have thought the manufacturers would be on them like a ton of bricks. But not so it would seem. Still puzzled.

Interesting points! I also wondered why I hadn't seen chain makers' recommendations on changing intervals, but given that Park was the only place I'd ever seen anything definitive on the subject (and I've searched), I've been going with their advice. It's buried rather deep in that blog, however, which may be why few have refuted it - nobody noticed!

 

[derby]

At 485 miles on my new 2018 Levo, about 80% rainy and muddy fire road and trail conditions due to an extra long winter in northern California, I measure no discernible chain wear using the 12 inch pin to pin test. The Levo comes stock with KMC x11e ebike specific chain.

On my mountain bicycles over the 38 years Iv'e been riding trails, with 25% - 35% Nor Cal muddy days, I've found that Squirt dry lube greatly increased chain and therefore drive train life by at least 3 times longer than any "highest quality" expensive bicycle specific wet lube or a year using chain saw lube. There are probably other concentrated dry wax based lubes as good as Squirt now days.

Wet lubes probably produce less chain roller friction while clean, such as when used for dry weather road riding with nearly no dust, water, or mud.

I attribute the far superior chain wear protection of Squirt dried wax lube for dust, dirt, and mud, is that the dried wax does not attract and absorb dust, and dried wax does not blend with rain water and turn to sludge and absorb mud such as wet oil based lubes. Ground up rock infused dust and mud that is attracted by oil and then quickly absorbed into wet oil based lubes turns into a metal grinding paste, wearing the chain pins and rollers quickly. Even when the dried wax lube falls off and there is only metal to metal, there is no oil attracting and absorbing dust and dirt, so metal to metal has much less wear than having oil based dust and mud grinding paste rapidly wearing the chain.