Hi All,
First of all I would like to say thanks to @Rob Rides EMTB
I really like his youtube channel! Thank you for you work, keep going!
I’m slowly looking for a new bike. I gave myself a word that I will not buy the bike without trying it myself first. I want to have a bike which delivers a lot of fun in the first place. I also want to have a bike which pedals uphill pretty well. I’m living in an area where we have some hills, but there are no mountains. We have some forests and unpaved roads as well. It’s where I’m riding most of the time. I believe that bikes with 110-140mm of travel are perfect for locations like this. I’m 191cm or 6 Feet and 3.5 inches tall. So my bike size is XL and sometimes L.
Currently, I own Canyon Neuron 2018 in size XL.
I purchased this bike just for one thing - to try short travel 29ner. And I liked it so much that I sold my carbon GT Force Expert 2014 (150\160mm hi-pivot enduro bike). The GT bike was really hard to pedal, I do not know why. I was always the slowest rider in the group. No matter in which shape I was. I also need to say that I’m not a big fan of bike parks. I visited Morzine/Les Gets in 2014 on this bike and I enjoyed only green and blue trails. Red trails were ridable to me, but I did not enjoy that at all. I just tried to survive on those tracks. however, I really enjoyed the blue trail in Finale Ligure called roller coaster - https://www.trailforks.com/trails/roller-coaster-54111/
it was just fine for me and I’m not looking for trails which are more technical than this. Black trails were completely unrideable for me and red trails were partially ridable.
Recently I went to an E-bike festival to test some modern bikes. I’d rather don’t need an e-bike and the primary goal of this trip was to just check the bikes and see which geometry I like the most. Unfortunately, 99% of the test track was an ideal asphalt road, so I have no idea how the suspension performs on rough terrain. However, I went off track on every bike at least twice to see how it performs on the trail (however those were pretty short and with no bumps on them). Here are my impressions below.
The first bike I tried was this beautiful guy. Scott Lumen in size XL.
This bike feels amazing. The best bike I ever tried. You just think that you want to turn - and it turns. I never had such a feeling on any other bike. Feels very stable while going down and turns easily. I had a feeling that my body position on the bike is very well balanced. While turning your body weight stays in the centre of the bike and the bike doesn’t want to jump out from you. The motor delivers power very gently and you almost do not hear it. However, I was able to hear very high-pitch mosquito-like noise from some electronic components. It also reminds me of some old CRT TVs from the 90s, they also had a similar sound. I also tried to ride it with motor assist disabled. It feels like a normal bike which you pedal in jelly. Ideally, I would like to find a bike which feels like this one, but without a motor. It’s sibling, the motorless Scott spark has shorter chainstays (450 vs 437.5mm), 0.8 deg slacker seat tube and 0.3 deg steeper head tube. So I’m not sure how the spark will ride compared to this bike. The price difference between full carbon spark (I really hate Frankenstein-like bikes with carbon front triangle and the aluminium rear) and this Lumen is not that high, 6k vs 7k for Lumen.
The motor acts also as a power meter and it sends the data to my Garmin, which is super cool.
The suspension feels balanced, not too stiff and not too plush. However, I would like to have a GRIP2 cartridge (that’s upgradable AFAIK). The mode selector feels fancy, but the only application which potentially may be useful - is the middle position which limits the travel to 80mm so you can stay higher in the travel to prevent pedal strikes on technical terrain. But that’s not a dealbreaker to me.
Next bike is this Trek Fuel EX-e. the biggest disappointment of the day. On paper it’s better than Scott, but in reality, it feels very nervous while riding. Not stable while riding down and it was somewhat hard to keep the balance on the bike. Can’t really get why - head and seat angles are exactly the same as on the Scott. Chainstays are shorter, only 438mm. However, I tested it in size L. Suspension also feels not as plush as on the Scott (there is a chance that the pressure in the shock was higher than it should be). And yeah - it’s heavier than Scott. Really disappointed with Trek…
Here is the link to the geometry of some bikes I mentioned:
Geometry Geeks
I also rented a Giant Trance X E+ in Tyrol.
What I liked about the bike:
What I dislike about the bike:
I did not like the bike at all. It's deadly heavy and it feels that you are a passenger on the bike. It helped me to climb really high but at the end I had no satisfaction. I want to avoid this feeling with my new bike.
I saw that Scott Lumen is now on sale. So it's probably a best moment to get it. As an Engineer I know that it's not a good idea to buy a complex piece of machinery right after it was released. It's better to wait couple of years untill all issues will be fixed. So I decided to read more info about this new TQ motor. And I found this forum. Now I'm a little bit terrified. Some people swapped 5 motors under warranty on their TREKs EXes. There is also at least one case with Scott. Looks like that it's better to wait for Lumen 2024 or even 2025 or look around for an alternative. BTW the test bike also had issues with the mottor. At the beggining the assist was not working at all, then is started to turn on and off rapidly and after ~15 minutes it started to work as intended (I hope).
I'm not a big fan of short chainstays, the swet spot for me is somewhere around 445-450mm (I'm a tall rider). I also do not like mullet setups.
What are the alternatives to Scott Lumen under 18.5kg?
How does Specialized Levo SL 1.2 compares to the Lumen in terms of handling? How would you describe it to some one who ridden scott lumen and the bikes I listed above? @Borut you owned both of them? Why are you selling your Lumen so quiclky?
First of all I would like to say thanks to @Rob Rides EMTB
I really like his youtube channel! Thank you for you work, keep going!
I’m slowly looking for a new bike. I gave myself a word that I will not buy the bike without trying it myself first. I want to have a bike which delivers a lot of fun in the first place. I also want to have a bike which pedals uphill pretty well. I’m living in an area where we have some hills, but there are no mountains. We have some forests and unpaved roads as well. It’s where I’m riding most of the time. I believe that bikes with 110-140mm of travel are perfect for locations like this. I’m 191cm or 6 Feet and 3.5 inches tall. So my bike size is XL and sometimes L.
Currently, I own Canyon Neuron 2018 in size XL.
I purchased this bike just for one thing - to try short travel 29ner. And I liked it so much that I sold my carbon GT Force Expert 2014 (150\160mm hi-pivot enduro bike). The GT bike was really hard to pedal, I do not know why. I was always the slowest rider in the group. No matter in which shape I was. I also need to say that I’m not a big fan of bike parks. I visited Morzine/Les Gets in 2014 on this bike and I enjoyed only green and blue trails. Red trails were ridable to me, but I did not enjoy that at all. I just tried to survive on those tracks. however, I really enjoyed the blue trail in Finale Ligure called roller coaster - https://www.trailforks.com/trails/roller-coaster-54111/
it was just fine for me and I’m not looking for trails which are more technical than this. Black trails were completely unrideable for me and red trails were partially ridable.
Recently I went to an E-bike festival to test some modern bikes. I’d rather don’t need an e-bike and the primary goal of this trip was to just check the bikes and see which geometry I like the most. Unfortunately, 99% of the test track was an ideal asphalt road, so I have no idea how the suspension performs on rough terrain. However, I went off track on every bike at least twice to see how it performs on the trail (however those were pretty short and with no bumps on them). Here are my impressions below.
The first bike I tried was this beautiful guy. Scott Lumen in size XL.
This bike feels amazing. The best bike I ever tried. You just think that you want to turn - and it turns. I never had such a feeling on any other bike. Feels very stable while going down and turns easily. I had a feeling that my body position on the bike is very well balanced. While turning your body weight stays in the centre of the bike and the bike doesn’t want to jump out from you. The motor delivers power very gently and you almost do not hear it. However, I was able to hear very high-pitch mosquito-like noise from some electronic components. It also reminds me of some old CRT TVs from the 90s, they also had a similar sound. I also tried to ride it with motor assist disabled. It feels like a normal bike which you pedal in jelly. Ideally, I would like to find a bike which feels like this one, but without a motor. It’s sibling, the motorless Scott spark has shorter chainstays (450 vs 437.5mm), 0.8 deg slacker seat tube and 0.3 deg steeper head tube. So I’m not sure how the spark will ride compared to this bike. The price difference between full carbon spark (I really hate Frankenstein-like bikes with carbon front triangle and the aluminium rear) and this Lumen is not that high, 6k vs 7k for Lumen.
The motor acts also as a power meter and it sends the data to my Garmin, which is super cool.
The suspension feels balanced, not too stiff and not too plush. However, I would like to have a GRIP2 cartridge (that’s upgradable AFAIK). The mode selector feels fancy, but the only application which potentially may be useful - is the middle position which limits the travel to 80mm so you can stay higher in the travel to prevent pedal strikes on technical terrain. But that’s not a dealbreaker to me.
Next bike is this Trek Fuel EX-e. the biggest disappointment of the day. On paper it’s better than Scott, but in reality, it feels very nervous while riding. Not stable while riding down and it was somewhat hard to keep the balance on the bike. Can’t really get why - head and seat angles are exactly the same as on the Scott. Chainstays are shorter, only 438mm. However, I tested it in size L. Suspension also feels not as plush as on the Scott (there is a chance that the pressure in the shock was higher than it should be). And yeah - it’s heavier than Scott. Really disappointed with Trek…
Next one was this Specialized Turbo Levo Expert Carbon. I remember my first try of Specialized Levo in 2017 - that bike was totally awesome. I had a lot of fun with it. This one was a disappointment for me. First it was in a really poor technical condition. The bike produced terrible cracking noises (from the seatpost or from the saddle I have no idea). It’s a full power E-MTB, and it eats uphills for breakfast. It does everything for you. The integration of the motor is superb and it’s on pair with Trek and Scott. Power delivery is also probably the best.
The bike feels OKish, however, I had two (!) pedal strikes on it (is it because the rear wheel is 27.5?). This fact spoiled the impressions completely. The bike has no character and it was not fun to ride. I do not know which size was that. Given the fact that we have lot’s of those second-hand with motors swapped under warranty - I consider Specialized/Bröse as unreliable. In combination with other impressions - IMHO does not worth looking into it at all.
Next bike was this Giant Stance E+1. I had really low expectations from this bike. The cheap RockShox 35 fork and noname shock in combination with Tektro brakes set the expectations pretty low. The bike looks very cheap. However, this was THE PLUSHIEST BIKE I’ve ridden for the last 8 years. The fork and suspension feel amazing. Superb small bump sensitivity. It has crazy long chainstays at 468mm, however, I do not remember that I was excited regarding the handling of the bike. It was just OK.
The damper on this bike was complete garbage - feels like there is no oil in it and when the suspension fully extends - you feel a knock.
It has only 125mm of travel, but it feels like you have 160-170, so plush it was. And at the same time, I feel no pedal bob at all. So kudos to Giant for the suspension design. I believe It’s worth looking at Giant Trance, however, I do not want an e-bike at least for now.
The brakes had no power at all, but for a test ride, it was ok. The motor delivers power in a harsh way but overall it’s more or less OK. The remote on the handlebar is terrible. Gigantic screen, unreadable under the sun. Feels flimsy and I’m pretty sure it will be the first thing which will fail if you crash the bike.
Next thing is Focus Jam2 SL with Fazua 60 motor.
FOCUS Bikes - JAM² SL 9.9
The bike I tested was in size M. But damn, it was so good! It was very close to the Scott Lumen in terms of ride impressions even with two sizes down. pedalling efficiency was superb, however, the suspension feels pretty stiff. You never say it’s a 150mm bike. I’d rather say it has just 120. Maybe the shock has too much pressure in it or it’s just firm by design. Chainstay was 440mm. Subjectively motor feels more powerful than on Scott or Trek. I actually like the feeling of it more than any other motor. I really can’t get why I liked how the bike rides given that the geometry of it is pretty common nowadays. The mode switcher was super flimsy, I hope it was a preproduction model and they will fix it on a production bike.
The bike feels OKish, however, I had two (!) pedal strikes on it (is it because the rear wheel is 27.5?). This fact spoiled the impressions completely. The bike has no character and it was not fun to ride. I do not know which size was that. Given the fact that we have lot’s of those second-hand with motors swapped under warranty - I consider Specialized/Bröse as unreliable. In combination with other impressions - IMHO does not worth looking into it at all.
Next bike was this Giant Stance E+1. I had really low expectations from this bike. The cheap RockShox 35 fork and noname shock in combination with Tektro brakes set the expectations pretty low. The bike looks very cheap. However, this was THE PLUSHIEST BIKE I’ve ridden for the last 8 years. The fork and suspension feel amazing. Superb small bump sensitivity. It has crazy long chainstays at 468mm, however, I do not remember that I was excited regarding the handling of the bike. It was just OK.
The damper on this bike was complete garbage - feels like there is no oil in it and when the suspension fully extends - you feel a knock.
It has only 125mm of travel, but it feels like you have 160-170, so plush it was. And at the same time, I feel no pedal bob at all. So kudos to Giant for the suspension design. I believe It’s worth looking at Giant Trance, however, I do not want an e-bike at least for now.
The brakes had no power at all, but for a test ride, it was ok. The motor delivers power in a harsh way but overall it’s more or less OK. The remote on the handlebar is terrible. Gigantic screen, unreadable under the sun. Feels flimsy and I’m pretty sure it will be the first thing which will fail if you crash the bike.
Next thing is Focus Jam2 SL with Fazua 60 motor.
FOCUS Bikes - JAM² SL 9.9
The bike I tested was in size M. But damn, it was so good! It was very close to the Scott Lumen in terms of ride impressions even with two sizes down. pedalling efficiency was superb, however, the suspension feels pretty stiff. You never say it’s a 150mm bike. I’d rather say it has just 120. Maybe the shock has too much pressure in it or it’s just firm by design. Chainstay was 440mm. Subjectively motor feels more powerful than on Scott or Trek. I actually like the feeling of it more than any other motor. I really can’t get why I liked how the bike rides given that the geometry of it is pretty common nowadays. The mode switcher was super flimsy, I hope it was a preproduction model and they will fix it on a production bike.
Here is the link to the geometry of some bikes I mentioned:
Geometry Geeks
I also rented a Giant Trance X E+ in Tyrol.
What I liked about the bike:
- It had rather comfortable seating position.
- It had a nice integration of the motor (display, controls and the app)
- You can climb almost anything on it (I did 1600m of climb and 23 km on it, however I spent 110% of the battery).
- Stable on decents.
What I dislike about the bike:
- It's deadly heavy. The bike feels like a tank. It's not playful at all. I do not like this feeling.
- Harsh motor. Power delivery is way too aggressive. The motor gets very hot and I touched it with my leg several times.
- I had a feeling that I'm a passenger on the bike. No satisfaction after you finish. Garmin measured 3.2 as a training effect (that's pretty low, I have around the same result while riding my analog bike around my house for 1 hour).
- Heavy tires. They do not roll at all. If you stop pedaling on a flat asphalt road it feels like you are riding on sand. Or like some one is pressing the brake lever.
- Brakes were crap. No power and no modulation.
I did not like the bike at all. It's deadly heavy and it feels that you are a passenger on the bike. It helped me to climb really high but at the end I had no satisfaction. I want to avoid this feeling with my new bike.
I saw that Scott Lumen is now on sale. So it's probably a best moment to get it. As an Engineer I know that it's not a good idea to buy a complex piece of machinery right after it was released. It's better to wait couple of years untill all issues will be fixed. So I decided to read more info about this new TQ motor. And I found this forum. Now I'm a little bit terrified. Some people swapped 5 motors under warranty on their TREKs EXes. There is also at least one case with Scott. Looks like that it's better to wait for Lumen 2024 or even 2025 or look around for an alternative. BTW the test bike also had issues with the mottor. At the beggining the assist was not working at all, then is started to turn on and off rapidly and after ~15 minutes it started to work as intended (I hope).
I'm not a big fan of short chainstays, the swet spot for me is somewhere around 445-450mm (I'm a tall rider). I also do not like mullet setups.
What are the alternatives to Scott Lumen under 18.5kg?
How does Specialized Levo SL 1.2 compares to the Lumen in terms of handling? How would you describe it to some one who ridden scott lumen and the bikes I listed above? @Borut you owned both of them? Why are you selling your Lumen so quiclky?
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