Are Shimano staying in the motor game ?

[jooles]

Why do you need to remove the toothed ring? Presuming the one behind the spider arms for chain ring ? I dropped my motor out. Much easier than I thought and you can clean it all up and use specific electric contact spray on the 3 plugs.

I think just trying to keep it clean, avoiding as above jetting directly into the motor and checking the 3 plugs on non drive side regularly is all you can do.

It's a real pity you can't pull the motor apart and get wear and tear items such as gear wheels, seals and bearings replaced.

It's not all about warranty but about sustainability, recycling etc.

Jules

 

[Dan63]

Is there a way to remove the chainring/chainguide without the shimano specific tool?

Chain ring, yes. Spider mount, no.

 

[jooles]

You can remove the chain ring and feed over crank arms ... mine is 34T and will go over pedals too after removing the small torx bolts holding ring onto spider arms.

 

[Rebie]

We all seem to giving the emtb makers lots of latitude in respect to the reliability of their motors, batteries and electronics.
We say " It's a new industry, we need to give them some slack, their new at this, ect. etc. " The new S Works Turbo Levo is $12000.
My pal and his dad ( bought two) had both motors die after 5 months of ownership. They have been waiting 2 months for new ones and still no show. The battery on my 2019, $7200 Turbo Levo Expert died after 9 months of ownership. And now the motor is making clicking sounds under load. And the TCU unit has failed twice. For this kind of money, being guaranteed
there will be a major malfunction within a year is seriously inexcusable. If Shimano has a reputation of being more reliable than Brose they should stay in the motor game. The word is out on Specialized motors. It's not if your motor will fail its when. And It will be within 10 months. My next ebike purchase will be based on the most reliable motor, battery and electronics. Don't give a crap about looks anymore. And all the initial ride reports on these bikes never got into reliability. If I knew then what I know now, I would NOT have purchased the Turbo Levo. Dear Specialized, when asked about the ebike I own, this is the report I give ! Wakey Wakey folks.....

 

[Dirtnvert]

It'd be nice if the motor was seperate from the bottom bracket. Then i could service the bb or still have a bike when i send the motor away for service/warrantee.
I wish it was easier to seperate the battery from the cover so i could just use the cover without the battery.

 

[Eddy Current]

I read somewhere the new Shimano will came with a integrated automatic 13 speed gearbox on the motor ... too good to be true or too bad for reliability depends how you see it

 

[jooles]

I feel for you Rebie. Agree it's rare any reviews take into account motor reliability and support. It's mostly about power etc.

If Shimano are making an even more complex unit and the current can't be maintained then that bodes for another non maintenance throw away unit.

A big progression in the eMtb market would be a proper support network. And I don't mean remove motor, throw away, fit another. More units that have critical wear elements that can be replaced economically. Like a rear shock, fork or frame bearings.

The constant push for more power, lighter bikes, integrated electronics with your pacemaker etc is irrelevant if the most complex bit is both unreliable and non maintenance.

EMtb have been around quite a few years now. Spesh alone have a crew of 19 or so developers. You'd think they would have improved in the areas discussed above.

I do hear, though that Spesh may be dropping Brose. Let's see.

Right now my money is on Bosch. If I were to get another EMtb I'd look at that route. Followed closely by Spesh as I just love Spesh bikes and have done for decades.

My E8000 especially with the cheap version of STUnlocker is very good and highly customisable for a variety of environments. I just fear the day it goes clunk. Knowing my luck a week after warranty runs out....

 

[MrBrownstone]

Shimano would be top of my list based on 2500 trouble free miles.

this^^^^^^me too same mileage. And after charging the battery to 100% nearly every day for 7 months I swear I’m getting longer range then when it was new based on my local loop.

 

[R120]

I read somewhere the new Shimano will came with a integrated automatic 13 speed gearbox on the motor ... too good to be true or too bad for reliability depends how you see it

They filed a patent for an internal gearbox design, that didnt specifically mention a motor, but in the drawings it looked like it was attached to a Steps type system.

 

[bluewater87]

2021 Commencal ebikes will have new shimano motor

 

[Eddy Current]

They filed a patent for an internal gearbox design, that didnt specifically mention a motor, but in the drawings it looked like it was attached to a Steps type system.

View attachment 35451

La caja de cambios para e-MTB está a la vuelta de la esquina

Shimano ya ha patentado el mecanismo de una caja de cambios de 13 velocidades.

www.mountainbike.es

 

[jooles]

Any news out there if the new unit is maintainable?

 

[electricbogaloo]

There you go:

• 2500 g weight
• 380 g lighter
• 10 % smaller
• 175 mm Q-Faktor
• 85 Nm

Shimano EP8 – #revelo

revelo.li

 

[MrBrownstone]

There you go:

• 2500 g weight
• 380 g lighter
• 10 % smaller
• 175 mm Q-Faktor
• 85 Nm

Shimano EP8 – #revelo

revelo.li

?

 

[RickBullotta]

There you go:

• 2500 g weight
• 380 g lighter
• 10 % smaller
• 175 mm Q-Faktor
• 85 Nm

Shimano EP8 – #revelo

revelo.li

Would love to know more about "smaller" - does that mean that it won't be a drop-in replacement for E8000? That would suck, but wouldn't surprise me.

 

[MrBrownstone]

Supposed to mount into current E8000 frames

 

[Gary]

I'm all for lighter Eebs
but...
380g LIGHTER + 15Nnm MOAR TORQUE sounds like a recipe for disaster to me.

Sort out your motors durability BEFORE shaving weight SHIMAAAAAAH NO!

 

[GrandesRoues]

Specs look nice.
I hope for
-an emtb mode
-more torque and efficiency at low rpm for steep climbs

 

[electricbogaloo]

Emtb-Mode? Why?

 

[Gary]

-an emtb mode

What don't you like about "trail" mode?

-more torque and efficiency at low rpm for steep climbs

how low? (Sorry, can't say I've ever noticed it lacking at low cadence)
I'd actually prefer the steps motors to remain efficient and output a decent torque at higher cadences (110rpm and above) as currently assistance begins to drop off far too early for me. It'd be nice if the perameter were user adjustable but TBH i think far too many owners wouldn't really have a clue how best to implement that sort of tuneability so I can see why Shimano probably won't ever open settings with that level of user customisability up to owners

 

[jooles]

Using the basic version of STUnlocker has opened the parameters of my e8000 although doesn't have ability to change cadence vs. torque. That seems more deeply embedded in the motor and speed controller design.

I agree. Shimano really need to get to grips with service and maintenance rather than just chase down torque and weight to compete on paper with the others.

In full boost mode I find the power more than enough even on the steepest climbs. There's more to it than just power; frame geometry, gearing and rider technique.

When it's working I do like the e8000 unit. It picks up quickly to get going again. Can be supremely economical if you dial down power output in STUnlocker (eg max power 25nm) has a good form factor and generally pedals well.

However my original thread related to maintenance and service. So is there any mention of serviceability?

Thanks.

Jules

 

[Mikerb]

To my mind the logical progression for E bikes is to separate the motor from the BB such that is can be easily sealed and easily removed, and serviced as per any other electric motor. I see no reason why it could not still be mid mounted. The battery could then be fully enclosed as per the Levo etc but perhaps not in the now fairly standard down tube position but rather across the top of the motor. No more fat down tubes and no more front heavy emtbs. The central brain ( EMS) should be a hermetically sealed unit and all wiring connections to the motor /charging port / mode controller should be marine quality/spec. The controller should merely be a switch.....no display no other function....easily replaced if it gets damaged. Manufacturers should provide the elements as a complete system....no proprietary parts. The complete set up then starts to replicate other mass market applications for electric motors and associated components and proper service industries can be set up.

 

[MrBrownstone]

E8000 is Perfect IMO. Just the way it is. 2800 wet wild miles and counting...

 

[Dirtnvert]

E8000 is Perfect IMO. Just the way it is. 2800 wet wild miles and counting...

Thats great and i do hear of people getting quite a bit more as well. Conversely we hear a lot of the other side of the coin. Most often its the tourque sensor(like mine) ,bearings or connectors. At first look those tiny little wires stand out as a potential problem. I'm happy with how the system functions and im ok with current tourque. Its an emtb though , so i dont think an extra half a pound or so of weight to have burly wiring harnesses and connectors that are all internal and some big ass bb bearings and sensors would hurt. 1lb means nothing in the scheme of things

 

[jooles]

The Fazua Evation seems to be a positive move towards separating the motor from BB ? It seems a great idea.

I also agree about weight distribution. Having a battery inserted into alnoyfull length of downtube and away from BB area must have an effect on handling. Others will be more informed as I've only ridden (on technical stuff) my older style external mounted battery. Have to say it does feel pretty good.

There will always be those who have great experience with a product and those that don't. My e8000 stopped switching on at 90 miles, others have had 2800 miles trouble free.

Has anyone done a survey relating to your motor, it's make and how many miles you've done and how many if any issues ?

Rob could then write an algorithm to mash the data and create a league table ;-)

J

 

[MrBrownstone]

I never ever wash my bike so maybe that’s a reason mine has gone so many miles haha?

 

[Rusty]

Well you can get a spesh brose changed while you wait and no questions asked if faulty. Plus shops keep them in stock.

Good luck getting that from bosch or shimano.

Only some - have friends had to wait a long time for replacements. Of course, that could be due to the failure rate ... who knows?

 

[stiv674]

I wonder if they've increased the maximum assistance from 300%? Most other full power motors are 350% and higher...

I'd rather they kept it the same weight and size and, as already mentioned, increase durability and also make it a bit quieter. Improve the app as well, to give battery remaining percentage rather than the five bars, better post ride info etc.

 

[electricbogaloo]

I think first an foremost Shimano has to stay on the ball reach-wide. And about the weight redistribution thing: bikes get bought because of the looks. Integrated batteries make no sense technically speaking but it's what the average customer wants. If you go into ebike fb groups you notice howuch clueless people csmr to biking through Ebikes. If you post a bike with external battery almost everytime there is a comment about it how outdated it looks although some integrated batteries look like shit (just look at intense). Voiullouz is trying to go that route with the battery in the center but it looks visually unbalanced. Also if the maintenance would be possible it would be way more hassle for Shimano and the dealers because those clueless people would reach out for assistance because the disassembled their motor and didn't manage to put it back together. So it's easier for them to just make a warranty void if it's touched and get sent in the whole bike for troubleshoot, because most of the time Ebikes break down due to simple cable connection problems.

 

[GrandesRoues]

Nicolas Vouilloz sur is against fashion with the Lapierre glp2, focusing on handling first.

He used to ride a first version glp frame with a shimano motor in place of the bosh gen3 motor, to get shorter chainstays !

I wonder if the new shimano could be bolted in place of a Bosh. External volume are pretty close now... standardization of mounting points would be great for users and frame manufacturers...