Are e-bikes ruining mountain biking?

[mark.ai]

I'm on the side of thinking that having a speed limiter is the wrong way to do it too (even though I would choose not to increase my own limit for range reasons). Just the fact that non e-assisted bikes don't have a speed limit, and that manually pedalling a e- or non-e bike you can go faster than the assist cut off anyway - it just doesn't make sense.

The trouble is, increasingly powerful motors now will make it harder in the future to ever have the speed limits changed as e-bikes become more commonplace.

Maybe it will just become acceptable that everyone ignores speed limit(er)s like with driving cars - just because everyone has a car.

 

[Tamas]

I'm on the side of thinking that having a speed limiter is the wrong way to do it too (even though I would choose not to increase my own limit for range reasons). Just the fact that non e-assisted bikes don't have a speed limit, and that manually pedalling a e- or non-e bike you can go faster than the assist cut off anyway - it just doesn't make sense.

The trouble is, increasingly powerful motors now will make it harder in the future to ever have the speed limits changed as e-bikes become more commonplace.

Maybe it will just become acceptable that everyone ignores speed limit(er)s like with driving cars - just because everyone has a car.

Having assist speed limit doesn't stop you from going faster but you need to use your own power or gravity just like with regular bikes.
I don't know about yours but in my country, there are speed limits for all bicycles - 40KPH in the city, 40KPH outside without helmet and 50KPH outside wearing a helmet.
Also, there is an s-pedelec category where the assist limit is 45KPH and they are considered as mopeds and can be ridden with the same conditions (I'm talking about the EU). So there is a choice if someone wants higher assist speed legally, but it requires insurance and in some countries registration and license plate. I'm afraid if the derestriction gets out of hand it will be a very easy way for lawmakers to reclassify all ebikes to mopeds and then we are properly f*cked.

 

[Rob Back]

I saw this video and thought you guys might be interested, it’s slightly on topic

 

[steve_sordy]

A.............. They now have more emtbs than mandraulic mtbs ?

"mandraulic" - love it!

 

[flash]

I have never felt the need to de-restrict my bikes when off road. That's not been an issue. If the bruises I'm currently carrying are an indicator I need to slow down, not speed up.

However, on tarmac, I would like to be able to ride with assistance up to maybe 30-35kph on a pedal assist bike legally. Unfortunately, as far as I am aware, that option isn't yet available in Oz. I don't think there's even a way to have a pedal assist bike registered as a moped here. I'd need a motorcycle licence, plates, insurance and registration. ANd that's not available. Maybe we need a system where we have another class like some European countries where we can ride a pedal assist bike at reasonable road speed with simple registration, no bike licence and no plates. After all I can ride my regular road bike at 35kph pretty easily on many roads.

My next bike is going to be the Focus Parlane2. It'll be interesting to see if I feel differently once I have a bike that is a lot lighter and that completely disengages at the ride assist limit.

Gordon

 

[Squirrel Squeezer]

What it really comes down to is one simple thing:

Ego


It’s their insufferable pride that keeps them from accepting Emtbs.

They can’t feel all superior and special over beginner and intermediate riders anymore.

What an ego crushing experience it must be when an $8000 boutique brand bike no longer impresses the crowd that they wanted to gloat over.

Only problem is Ebike riders are adopting the same bike snobbery that has already permeated the so-called “regular” mountain community.

Where a bike has to have specific parts or branding to have value.

Therefore the rider feels they have no value in the Emtb community unless his bike has a Fox 36 fork or Saint brakes.

Then there is the polar opposite, the rider who feels he is better than another rider based on how good of a deal he got.

The bigger this all gets the worse it becomes.

E-go!

 

[R120]

I have never felt the need to de-restrict my bikes when off road. That's not been an issue. If the bruises I'm currently carrying are an indicator I need to slow down, not speed up.

However, on tarmac, I would like to be able to ride with assistance up to maybe 30-35kph on a pedal assist bike legally. Unfortunately, as far as I am aware, that option isn't yet available in Oz. I don't think there's even a way to have a pedal assist bike registered as a moped here. I'd need a motorcycle licence, plates, insurance and registration. ANd that's not available. Maybe we need a system where we have another class like some European countries where we can ride a pedal assist bike at reasonable road speed with simple registration, no bike licence and no plates. After all I can ride my regular road bike at 35kph pretty easily on many roads.

My next bike is going to be the Focus Parlane2. It'll be interesting to see if I feel differently once I have a bike that is a lot lighter and that completely disengages at the ride assist limit.

Gordon

I put some time in on the BMC Alpenchallenge Amp - this is a flat bar road bike/gravel bike running the Shimano E8000 MTB system.

It is way lighter than any EMTB out there around 13/14kg, and my main take away from riding it was that due to the weight, you could not even tell when the assistance cut out.

The main reason you notice it on an EMTB, is that when it cuts out you become aware you are pedalling a 20 +KG bike with heavy, draggy tyres.

When riding the same system on a lighter bike with road tyres, you struggle to notice it, and certainly there is no need to have the assistance higher than the legal cut off.

Thats why for me reduced weight is the thing I want most out of the progression of EMTB's, because not only does the line between assisted peddling and non get blurred to the extent it becomes un-noticeable, but the reduced weight means the battery life is massively extended.

The range on the BMC, if ridden in Eco, is a genuine 100km on undulating terrain, using the same 500WH battery that will get you a 50km max on an EMTB.

 

[dirt huffer]

I agree that that the need to derestrict or not is somewhat separate, I just think that that focusing on the speed limit is not the real crux of the issue, but the overall power of the bikes is.

I agree. You can only go so fast on single track in the woods.

The real concern are higher power levels where people might be able to roost tires. But I think there is way too much hysteria over the issue.... The major bike brands need a positive image for eMTB - quiet motors, responsible power levels, ect... So that trail access grows, not shrinks.

 

[Gary]

The real concern are higher power levels where people might be able to roost tires.

This is an american viewpoint, yes?
Fear of being told you're ruining trails with your motor?
Probably stop listening to the unsubstaciated worries of morons.

I roosted the shit out of many turns yesterday on handbuilt trails while simply riding playfully in loam. These were all turns on descents and I was freewheeling so motor assist was not even engaged. I'd have ridden them exactly the same on my regular enduro bike just as the fast 15yr old on my tail all day did on his regular Enduro bike.
None of us wheelspun ever.
Wheelspinning under load is possible motor or no motor either way it's pretty dumb most of the time.

 

[Alan wolfe]

Seen this thing before in snowsports I skied for 10 years then came along snowboarding all skiers said it would ruin slopes.guess what it did not it got more people intrested in winter sport.same thing is happening with ebike it going get more people intrested in cycling which is a good thing from my point of view.people get fitter healthier hence less drain on medical side of things.so answer to question is deffo no from my point view lol

 

[R120]

Funnily enough iw as around in the early days of snowboarding, and remember having to take a test in Val D'isere with an ESF ski instructor to prove I could get on and off a lift, and make it down a slope, before being allowed a ski pass - this was in about 1992.

 

[Alan wolfe]

Funnily enough iw as around in the early days of snowboarding, and remember having to take a test in Val D'isere with an ESF ski instructor to prove I could get on and off a lift, and make it down a slope, before being allowed a ski pass - this was in about 1992.

In 1994 I gave up skiing to learn to snowboard never been on my skis since

 

[Slowroller]

This is an american viewpoint, yes?

Besides the higher speed limit, one difference is we can legally have 750w motors, and also ride ebikes with throttles on bike paths, not trails. There's lots of fearmongering about guys roosting about with throttle bikes. Everyone is on the same bikes on both sides of the pond right now, but it might change in the US in the years to come.

 

[Mabman]

"There's lots of fearmongering about guys roosting about with throttle bikes."

Like a 750w bike under full throttle can roost anymore than if you are in turbo and hitting the pedals full on.....I happen to have a 750w mid drive with torque sensing and a throttle and the only way possible to get it to roost is to stop, hold the rear wheel up in the air and pin the throttle and set if down on the trail. Look at any video, regardless if it is a push bike or an ebike, and there is plenty of roosting going on and berms blowing out left and right.

I do admit that there is a bunch of fear mongering going on here in the US but throttled 750w ebikes are the least of our worries and no cause for a national e mergency. Especially when you factor in that there have been over volted eBikes here in the US for years that can wheelspin and you have never seen them on the trails because they are not suited for trail riding. Even a derestricted eBike doesn't really do anything on serious trails as they only provide more top end speed, not low end grunt.

My eBike made it possible for me to haul my e chainsaw out to the local abandoned trail network and do some spring cleaning. Much easier to haul the extra weight with the assist and all I ruined were a few logs that were in the way....

 

[Gary]

.I happen to have a 750w mid drive with torque sensing and a throttle and the only way possible to get it to roost is to stop, hold the rear wheel up in the air and pin the throttle and set if down on the trail.

You can actually intentionally get any bike to rear tyre roost in soft conditions by unweighting the rear tyre and pedalling with your weight over the front.
it's nothing like roosting a motorcycle tyre under power though even on an emtb.
Practice enough and you can hopefully get as good as this dude...