Anyone using a DSD Runt on front fork?

[Singletrackmind]

Just curious to see if anyone is running a DSD Runt on their front fork. Looks like a simple and inexpensive way to gain a little performance out of an air fork.

runt — diaz suspension design

Insert for mountain bike suspension air forks that provides a coil like feel while maintaining a lower weight, infinite adjust-ability, and lower price.

diazsuspensiondesign.com

 

[RustyIron]

Thanks, brah. That little link just burned half an hour of my morning!
But they didn't get my money yet.

The Runt really appears to be an fascinating little contraption that makes all sorts of sense. I've not heard of it before today. I appreciate that the web site clearly explains what's going on inside, rather than just piling on a bunch of superlatives to a vague description.

The other noteworthy item? They make a cool video.

 

[steve_sordy]

Any downsides, apart from the $225 cost?
(plus postage from USA, didn't go that far, but probably).

I'm still WOWing over my Fox 38 Elite so I'm not in the mind for "upgrades" yet.

 

[Bomble]

Just been reading a few online reviews and it's sounds great

 

[Mteam]

It looks similar to this from mrp

Suspension Upgrades

Makers of high-end mountain bike suspension, drivetrain products and components. MRP products are designed, tested and built in Colorado.

mrpbike.com

Or am I missing something?

Available from crc for £129

MRP Ramp Control Suspension Fork Cartridge | Chain Reaction

MRP Ramp Control Suspension Fork Cartridge - Lowest Prices and FREE shipping available from The World's largest online bike store - Chain Reaction Cycles

www.chainreactioncycles.com

 

[Doomanic]

There's also the AWK from Chickadeehill...

Federung — Chickadeehill

www.chickadeehill.de

 

[Singletrackmind]

It looks similar to this from mrp

Suspension Upgrades

Makers of high-end mountain bike suspension, drivetrain products and components. MRP products are designed, tested and built in Colorado.

mrpbike.com

Or am I missing something?

Available from crc for £129

MRP Ramp Control Suspension Fork Cartridge | Chain Reaction

MRP Ramp Control Suspension Fork Cartridge - Lowest Prices and FREE shipping available from The World's largest online bike store - Chain Reaction Cycles

www.chainreactioncycles.com

Here's some more info.

https://www.mtbr.com/threads/diaz-suspension-design-the-runt-vs-mrp-ramp-control-vs-luftkappe.1095682/

 

[Doomanic]

It looks similar to this from mrp

Suspension Upgrades

Makers of high-end mountain bike suspension, drivetrain products and components. MRP products are designed, tested and built in Colorado.

mrpbike.com

Or am I missing something?

Available from crc for £129

The Ramp control replaces tokens, the Runt and AWK add a second air chamber which offers better better midstroke support without sacrificing smoothness at the top of the stroke and adjustable progression at the bottom.

 

[RustyIron]

Here's some more info.

This is all so confusing.
Just get a Push ACS3 and be done with it.

 

[Singletrackmind]

This is all so confusing.
Just get a Push ACS3 and be done with it.

I don't see an option for a Fox 38 fork on Push's website. Anyone verify they make one that fits?

 

[Mcharza]

The Ramp control replaces tokens, the Runt and AWK add a second air chamber which offers better better midstroke support without sacrificing smoothness at the top of the stroke and adjustable progression at the bottom.

This!
I had it in use in the 2nd generation Kenovo with the Marzogghi Z1 fork. And it worked just like @Doomanic wrote.
Easy to install and gave more small pump sensitivity and never bottom outed.

 

[RustyIron]

I don't see an option for a Fox 38 fork on Push's website. Anyone verify they make one that fits?

Ah... not sure. Push is good about helping with customers' questions. Another top notch suspension guy, who is an authorized Push service center, is Ryan at Fluid Focus in San Marcos. Push might only tell you of their own solutions, while Fluid Focus might be able to lend advice on Vorsprung's Smashpot. The Smashpot is a similar conversion that fits some forks that the ACS3 doesn't.

 

[Futant]

I have both the PUSH and the Runt. On different bikes of course. I think the RUNT is the way to go for a few reasons. It’s simple and light. The Push can’t be returned to OEM and is much more expensive. The RUNT can be moved to another bike assuming its the same fork if you wanted to sell one and get a new one. It’s a no brained.

 

[Shjay]

It’s like the Yari up from Fast suspension

 

[d3ftone]

The Runt is great. It doesn't make a HUGE difference with mid stroke support but it does make a noticeable difference that is probably worth the cost. Just don't expect it to be as good as say the IRT chamber the Manitou Mezzer uses.

 

[Doomanic]

It’s like the Yari up from Fast suspension

No it isn't.

The YariUP is a damper upgrade, the Runt is a secondary air chamber.

 

[Shjay]

No it isn't.

The YariUP is a damper upgrade, the Runt is a secondary air chamber.

So in other words it’s a shit version of Ohlins & manitou dual air chambers

 

[Doomanic]

I have no idea if it is or isn't shit. I do know it's not a damper upgrade though...

 

[Singletrackmind]

I have no idea if it is or isn't shit. I do know it's not a damper upgrade though...

Installing the Runt this weekend and will share feedback after I get some rides in on it. Really like the Fox 38 etune model and wanted a way to maintain small bump compliance and not have fork dive when hammering turns. Played around with various psi settings and have added/removed tokens.

 

[Shjay]

I have no idea if it is or isn't shit. I do know it's not a damper upgrade though...

Typical singletrack answer I commented before reading about it!

 

[Mcharza]

Installing the Runt this weekend and will share feedback after I get some rides in on it. Really like the Fox 38 etune model and wanted a way to maintain small bump compliance and not have fork dive when hammering turns. Played around with various psi settings and have added/removed tokens.

Same with Runt, do not settle for 1/2 of the pressure specified. Play with the pressure and try different combinations.

 

[Singletrackmind]

So I was able to get a couple rides with varying trail conditions. Initially I set up the lower chamber at 53psi (about 20psi lower then what I was running pre-Runt) and the High chamber 95psi (1.8/1 ratio vs. the 2/1 ratio recommended by DSD). Small bump compliance was awesome and definitely had much less diving when hitting the turns hard. Did a couple decent drops and used all my 170mm travel. My weight is~190lbs/86kg with all riding gear on.

Also used the high/low compression and rebound settings recommended by DSD (Low Compression - Fully Open, High Compression - Fully Open, Rebound High Speed - Fully Closed, Rebound Low Speed - 6 clicks Open). Obviously all those new parameters changed the feel and performance of the bike.

Increased the psi in Low Chamber to 58 and High Chamber to 105psi. Adjusted the Compression and Rebound settings in between what DSD recommended and what I was running before.

VERY happy with the improved performance! Now keep in mind the Fox 38 Float Factory is an awesome fork by itself and with Runt it really enhances the riding characteristics on my YT Decoy. Feels really plush, excellent small bump compliance, perfect mid-stroke performance in turns and used about 95% of full travel without bottoming out.

Not sure if I'll add one on my Yeti-160E cus I use it more as an all-round climbing and trail bike. May give it a try on both bikes since they have the same fork.

 

[Singletrackmind]

Thanks, brah. That little link just burned half an hour of my morning!
But they didn't get my money yet.

The Runt really appears to be an fascinating little contraption that makes all sorts of sense. I've not heard of it before today. I appreciate that the web site clearly explains what's going on inside, rather than just piling on a bunch of superlatives to a vague description.

The other noteworthy item? They make a cool video.

Check out my updated post. Your bank account may be getting a little lighter

 

[ULEWZ]

This would be a great upgrade, but looking on their site, there is not a model to support the Fox 36-E specific fork.

 

[Singletrackmind]

This would be a great upgrade, but looking on their site, there is not a model to support the Fox 36-E specific fork.

You may want to contact them when they return after the Xmas holiday to see if Fox 36 model posted on their website will work. Understand the difference between a standard Fox fork and emtb specific models (see attached article for a good overview). Since the Runt goes into the air controlled part of the fork, not the compression side which is different on an e-tune & e-optimized fork it may be compatible.

Fox E-MTB Suspension - Does It Make A Difference?

With modern E-Bikes getting better and better every year, it was only a matter of time before they needed some of their own specific parts. Fox E-Tuned and E-Optimized models arn't just marketing hype but made for the needs of E-Bikes. E-Tuned for Fox 34, 36 and 38 model forks, and E-Optimized...

www.worldwidecyclery.com

 

[ULEWZ]

Compatibility:

• All FOX 36 Models (Factory, Performance, and Rhythm) 2018 and newer with NA2 air spring (see photos)
• Marzocchi Z1 Bomber
• NOT COMPATIBLE WITH THE 36E FOR E-BIKES

 

[Chuckinboulder]

@Singletrackmind i just installed the Runt on my 160e which I took up to 180mm and added a grip 2 damper.

Ridden it about 6 rides so far.

I’m 205 kitted out and am running 80/105 psi which is a way lower ratio than they recommend. I was having issues getting full travel and this seems better.

I’m still trying to figure out which chamber has the most effect on which part of the travel, so basically what balance works best.

Any other thought you have on your pressures?

 

[Singletrackmind]

@Singletrackmind i just installed the Runt on my 160e which I took up to 180mm and added a grip 2 damper.

Ridden it about 6 rides so far.

I’m 205 kitted out and am running 80/105 psi which is a way lower ratio than they recommend. I was having issues getting full travel and this seems better.

I’m still trying to figure out which chamber has the most effect on which part of the travel, so basically what balance works best.

Any other thought you have on your pressures?

Wish I could offer more scientific advice, but I would pick a baseline setting and make small incremental adjustments of 2-3psi and see how it performs. I called the guys at DSD and they gave me some input on psi and Compression/Rebound settings. Know the lower chamber has an effect on small bump compliance/midrange and high chamber impacts how much force is needed to bottom out. Based on the numbers you shared, would reduce liwer chamber psi to about 65 and try different ratios on high chamber.

 

[calvintys]

Anyone compare RUNT wirh MRP?

 

[Shjay]

DSD runt with Novy Splug in a Yari makes for a good fork but thinking of swapping back to my Mezzer Pro as love that fork & bit stiffer fork. It’s on an Orbea Rise