Anyone runs Rohloff speed hub on their eMTB?
- Thread starter Andrie
- Start date
I have a Speedhub on a MY19 Kenevo. I’m trying to think of a negative but I’m struggling. The only ones I can think of - extra cost & weight are very marginal when compared to a derailleur setup.
Ease of shifting uphill is stiff & a bit slow for the first ~ 1,000 km but eases & speeds up noticeably until shifts are fast & smooth.
So many benefits, without going into specifics they are durability, virtually zero maintenance and component wear, efficient stationary chain line that doesn’t twist, the ability to shift many multiple gears at a time whether riding or stationary - with experience - selecting the right gear becomes instinctive - automatic really - 3 or 4 or 5 gears however many in a fraction of a second.
Once you have a Rohloff, it’s unlikely you’d want to return to a derailleur. I don’t.
Ease of shifting uphill is stiff & a bit slow for the first ~ 1,000 km but eases & speeds up noticeably until shifts are fast & smooth.
So many benefits, without going into specifics they are durability, virtually zero maintenance and component wear, efficient stationary chain line that doesn’t twist, the ability to shift many multiple gears at a time whether riding or stationary - with experience - selecting the right gear becomes instinctive - automatic really - 3 or 4 or 5 gears however many in a fraction of a second.
Once you have a Rohloff, it’s unlikely you’d want to return to a derailleur. I don’t.
Rohloff on my 2020 Kenevo here. Pretty much agree with everything that has been said above. Mine won’t shift under full torque but a slight back off of the cranks and it’s straight in. It does take a little getting used to but once your there as Wepn said it’s instinctive. There are so many situations though we’re shifting stationary or on the fly without having to cycle the cranks is just awesome.
Not having a fragile derailleur hanging down like a nut sack, or having to constantly clean and adjust alignment is just great. Not having to change cassettes or chains is also welcomed.
As far as weight goes, over an nx drivetrain the weight difference isn’t much. Over more lightweight cassette/derailleur set ups, the weight is more pronounced but in my experienced I don’t really notice it while riding.
Then there’s the gear range which is awesome, more than enough both ends.
I will say though that there is an adjustment period to get used to it. For me, it took a while to get used to which way is up or down a gear but that is more me being a ADHD freak who gets too excited too quick.
If they could work out how to lighten the product and how to change under power the derailleur system would become obsolete almost immediately, they are that good.
There is an electric version (Bosch only) which allows you to change 1 or 3 gears at a time and also disconnects the motor slightly to aid shifting. Also removes the twist shift/cables to the rear mech and replaces with a nice up or down switch and single wire to the rear mech. They are working on other brands but no response as to when that will happen.
Not having a fragile derailleur hanging down like a nut sack, or having to constantly clean and adjust alignment is just great. Not having to change cassettes or chains is also welcomed.
As far as weight goes, over an nx drivetrain the weight difference isn’t much. Over more lightweight cassette/derailleur set ups, the weight is more pronounced but in my experienced I don’t really notice it while riding.
Then there’s the gear range which is awesome, more than enough both ends.
I will say though that there is an adjustment period to get used to it. For me, it took a while to get used to which way is up or down a gear but that is more me being a ADHD freak who gets too excited too quick.
If they could work out how to lighten the product and how to change under power the derailleur system would become obsolete almost immediately, they are that good.
There is an electric version (Bosch only) which allows you to change 1 or 3 gears at a time and also disconnects the motor slightly to aid shifting. Also removes the twist shift/cables to the rear mech and replaces with a nice up or down switch and single wire to the rear mech. They are working on other brands but no response as to when that will happen.
- Thread starter
- #4
I wonder if you can get away without the tensioner. Sort of like motorcycle.
Hanging derailleur is not really an issue I would think given the tensioner hangs quite a bit. Derailleur would have been at least halfway tuck in on downhill anyway.
Or a tensioner like Zerode bikes would be awesome.
So this is more like sequential transmission on a race car where you need a slight break of power to shift.
Hanging derailleur is not really an issue I would think given the tensioner hangs quite a bit. Derailleur would have been at least halfway tuck in on downhill anyway.
Or a tensioner like Zerode bikes would be awesome.
So this is more like sequential transmission on a race car where you need a slight break of power to shift.
Yes interesting the break-in period is definitely both mechanical and bio-mechanical.
That has changed & will rapidly become a requirement for high end motors & bikes. Consequently internally geared hubs, electronic shifting & lightweight gearbox motors - g-drives ?
- will become both universal & ubiquitous in all electric bikes.According to the Rohloff website, now also available for Panasonic FIT i.e. Panasonic GX so that means some very nice new options like Van Dessel Captain Shred would either be easy to install or more likely will be available ex factory, same for Flyer Uproc7.
For full suspension, a tensioner is somewhere between highly advisable and essential.
For example, Flyer have a E-14 Panasonic GX bike without a tensioner.
On the specialised the chain grows a fair bit, on mine as I’m running 200mm rear. I think it was almost 90mm.
I have looked into different tensioner types but in the end the current Rohloff one suits best without hacking up the bike.
The Rohloff DH tensioner hangs down the same as a standard gx derailleur on top gear. On the biggest cog there’s 90mm extra drop, so yeah massive difference. From the side as you can see the tensioner sits inside the chainstay.
I have looked into different tensioner types but in the end the current Rohloff one suits best without hacking up the bike.
The Rohloff DH tensioner hangs down the same as a standard gx derailleur on top gear. On the biggest cog there’s 90mm extra drop, so yeah massive difference. From the side as you can see the tensioner sits inside the chainstay.
Well that’s nice for Pano users but still no Still Specialised motors. I would have thought with the amount of Brose and soon to be huge amounts of Mahl motors that they would have developed one for them.Yes interesting the break-in period is definitely both mechanical and bio-mechanical.
That has changed & will rapidly become a requirement for high end motors & bikes. Consequently internally geared hubs, electronic shifting & lightweight gearbox motors - g-drives ?
According to the Rohloff website, now also available for Panasonic FIT i.e. Panasonic GX so that means some very nice new options like Van Dessel Captain Shred would either be easy to install or more likely will be available ex factory, same for Flyer Uproc7.
View attachment 35088
For full suspension, a tensioner is somewhere between highly advisable and essential.
For example, Flyer have a E-14 Panasonic GX bike without a tensioner.
Exactly and when you get the shifting times right, it’s instant. Your wrist limits the speed of change. It’s very strange swapping to my derailleur bike as it’s laggy in comparison.
If I was a Spesh designer, I’d build a limited edition s-pedelec enduro bike. Titanium X-wing or a new frame somewhere between new & original Kenevo, larger Mahle or improved Brose motor, Rohloff E-14, top shelf suspension & circa 20 kg +/-. It’d sell out quick don’t you think?
If I was a Spesh designer..... oh wait I already am. Unofficially
I can't film my projects, too many secrets.
Oh shit! I almost leaked a few secrets just then.
Had a rohloff many years ago and only kept it for one winter. Power transfer was spongy, it felt like there was drag all the time even on light pedalling (i appreciate the drag was probably inconsequential but it still felt horrible to me). Shifting under load when you were fighting to get up a steep bank was a complete no. Weight concentrated way out the back of the hardtail it was on felt horrible and the weight on the rear wheel meant more punctures until i changed how i rode it (this was before tubeless was common). Basically for trail/xc riding it wasnt a fun ride, though it did mean the winter mud fest was a breeze and no kit wear. I sold it as it just spoiled the ride for me.
Now on an ebike with the weight and power assist, i can certainly see the appeal. Still think the weight on the back wheel means its a no for me, but your conditions may make it worthwhile.
The comments above about quick shifting dont tally with what i saw though, yeah it was quick to dump a ton of gears if you backed off, but modern 12 speed shift so good under power now compared to 9 speed etc. The advantage of dropping 3-4+ gears at once is only an advantage because you have to back off the power so you need to drop 2 or more (in my experience), with 12 speed shifting you can just click through on the power and especially on an ebike it helps maintain momentum.
Now on an ebike with the weight and power assist, i can certainly see the appeal. Still think the weight on the back wheel means its a no for me, but your conditions may make it worthwhile.
The comments above about quick shifting dont tally with what i saw though, yeah it was quick to dump a ton of gears if you backed off, but modern 12 speed shift so good under power now compared to 9 speed etc. The advantage of dropping 3-4+ gears at once is only an advantage because you have to back off the power so you need to drop 2 or more (in my experience), with 12 speed shifting you can just click through on the power and especially on an ebike it helps maintain momentum.
You definitely have to choose the right gear when going uphill under full power/torque as it won’t change but then again you shouldn’t do that with a derailleur either. All other riding the shifting is quicker than a derailleur.
The gear changes though are super consistent in any condition where as I find the derailleur to be very temperamental when it’s muddy/wet/dusty. Ive done almost zero maintenance since the install just a wash and an oil after each ride. It’s great!
The gear changes though are super consistent in any condition where as I find the derailleur to be very temperamental when it’s muddy/wet/dusty. Ive done almost zero maintenance since the install just a wash and an oil after each ride. It’s great!
As Christian says, it's great.
Uphill shift & momentum improves very substantially after the relatively high milage break in. The other primary factor is technique, both precise gear selection and shifting when cranks are horizontal reduces the shift pause dramatically.
While reading about the Edsan Shiftezy III, I read that Rohloff are now using a lighter spring which makes shifting considerably easier. No doubt yours was the older spring.
Apart from the long break-in period of over 1,000 km which you might not have reached having ridden it only for one winter, the best method for fast uphill shifts with ease is to shift 2 gears at a time while the cranks are horizontal. Shifts uphill at maximum cadence & speed are almost non-existent on the trails I ride here and I don't ride the Kenevo uphill full tilt on roads very often, if at all.
- Thread starter
- #19
I was really close in pulling the trigger since I damaged my cassette, but the Rohloff dealer here is a pain to deal with. Ended getting new cassette and will put this for another time. Also I learned There might be some custom parts needed to be done to make it work that will take some time for the Orbea.
I like Orbea especially this one. Put a E-14 Speedhub on it & wow.
When you're ready, I'd recommend you ask Paul Moir for advice - Rohloff AU, engineer & conversion fabrication specialist.
I like that idea of internal gearing - preferably with the motor (more centred mass). That would be a win win. Realistically, I think the rear mech is more exposed on the highest gear, than it is on the lowest where it is very close to the wheel and well in from the chainstay. If I was with rohloff - I'd be looking at hub / motor gearing, either developing a whole unit or working with a motor manufacturer. I think that technology will leapfrog internal gearing on the rear never becoming affordable or widely used. Surely we could expect motor / gearbox to be widely adopted on mainstream emtb. I could imagine that within the next 10 years - widely used, provided on new bikes, affordable?
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- Thread starter
- #22
I was exploring on E-14. However I don’t think you can put the electronic CAN tube inside the seat tube. I was inquiring about it’s dimension to do my homework but like I said the dealer here is less than helpful. I was also exploring mounting it like a bike pump on the down tube. However without knowing the actual dimension it is really hard to know.
Next time my cassette/derailleur take a dump I’m doing Rohloff. That means I’m going to do the research now. If you have an email for Paul Moir, I’d love to hit him up.
Sure. With a Bosch in the Orbea, the E-14 is a possibility I think.
[email protected]
Paul Moir - Vimeo
I tried to purchase a rolhoff to self install on my Trance e+, but after several weeks, I gave up.
The Trance is apparently .5 mm too thin at the axle insert, according to the measurements sent to rohloff (through a third party) for consideration.
The Rohloff is not a through axle, and requires a special mounting kit.
Rohloff would not sell me a hub for a Gaint Trance e+, even with a reputable dealer handling the order?
The Trance is apparently .5 mm too thin at the axle insert, according to the measurements sent to rohloff (through a third party) for consideration.
The Rohloff is not a through axle, and requires a special mounting kit.
Rohloff would not sell me a hub for a Gaint Trance e+, even with a reputable dealer handling the order?
I can imagine that you aren't happy with that, as I can imagine you would have made it work somehow. I'm actually impressed with Rohloff's response though. Many businesses would sell you something knowing it wouldn't work for you - without knowing that you could make it work. This suggests some pride and that they want to see success stories with their product, and that they are also trying to avoid trouble. I think that is pretty unique in this era. Most things have their limitations.
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So the dropout is 0.5 mm - a bee's dick - too thin? If the axle diameter is the culprit, I think that could be easily solved. Everything required is here:
https://www.rohloff.de/fileadmin/user_upload/Rohloff-A12-beide_Messmethoden-EN-27102017.pdf
If it's a no-go then maybe have a look at the new Kindernay XIV for 12mm Thru-axle.
Yes. It's the drop-out that's too thin. I was drawing a blank when I typed that up.So the dropout is 0.5 mm - a bee's dick - too thin? If the axle diameter is the culprit, I think that could be easily solved. Everything required is here:
https://www.rohloff.de/fileadmin/user_upload/Rohloff-A12-beide_Messmethoden-EN-27102017.pdf
If it's a no-go then maybe have a look at the new Kindernay XIV for 12mm Thru-axle.
I may still try a kindernay one day, but seriously since I found that 10 speeds are pretty durable, my quest for a better drivetrain ran out of reason.
I might wait for gearbox bike, or save my allowances and get one that ships with a rohloff.
Thanks.
Highcountrydrifter
Member
I've been running a Kindernay on a Levo for about eight months now, but did run a succession of Rohloffs for about nine years prior to the ebike days on various bikes, including a couple of Niner WFOs.
After destroying one derailleur system too many on the Levo early this year, I decided to go back to the Rohloff, and infact sized it all up with their measuring kit and went through that process, but then found the Kindernay, and its 12mm through axle seemed the simpler system, despite my fondness for the Rohloff.
Either way, Rohloff or Kindernay, they are both very durable systems, and while the Kindernay has yet to prove itself as well as the Rohloff in terms of durability, due to being a new product, my feeling after a winter of hard use is that it is strong and bombproof.
The point I mainly want to make is regarding unsprung weight that many IGH critics raise. Yes, it was an issue when on a standard bike and the weight was felt in some circumstances. However the advantages of the IGH outweighted the those handling issues for me at that time.
With an ebike and its extra mass, cush core inserts, 3" tyres and coil suspension, the extra unsprung weight of the Kindernay is not felt. At all.
I ride with a group of five Kenevos and it is a rare ride where one or more don't have drivetrain issues.
Some of these riders do exhibit a lack of mechanical sympathy it has to be said, but to be fair, it is hard to be kind to the equipment once the blood is pumping and the red mist descends....
The Kindernay on the other hand, has performed faultlessly thus far. It never throws a chain, twists a chain, breaks a chain, derailleur, gets bogged/clogged up with mud etc.
It is easy to get hung up on weight, especially unsprung weight, but that is no longer an issue in the era of ebikes, imo.
To be fair, it is a lot of money, either way, Rohloff or Kindernay. But everytime one of our group has to repair something, I feel that could have just as easily been me having the problem and I mentally credit that cost against the Kindernay.
It will pay for itself, in time. But until that day, the confidence that I'll never have drivetrain issues again is worth any expense.
After destroying one derailleur system too many on the Levo early this year, I decided to go back to the Rohloff, and infact sized it all up with their measuring kit and went through that process, but then found the Kindernay, and its 12mm through axle seemed the simpler system, despite my fondness for the Rohloff.
Either way, Rohloff or Kindernay, they are both very durable systems, and while the Kindernay has yet to prove itself as well as the Rohloff in terms of durability, due to being a new product, my feeling after a winter of hard use is that it is strong and bombproof.
The point I mainly want to make is regarding unsprung weight that many IGH critics raise. Yes, it was an issue when on a standard bike and the weight was felt in some circumstances. However the advantages of the IGH outweighted the those handling issues for me at that time.
With an ebike and its extra mass, cush core inserts, 3" tyres and coil suspension, the extra unsprung weight of the Kindernay is not felt. At all.
I ride with a group of five Kenevos and it is a rare ride where one or more don't have drivetrain issues.
Some of these riders do exhibit a lack of mechanical sympathy it has to be said, but to be fair, it is hard to be kind to the equipment once the blood is pumping and the red mist descends....
The Kindernay on the other hand, has performed faultlessly thus far. It never throws a chain, twists a chain, breaks a chain, derailleur, gets bogged/clogged up with mud etc.
It is easy to get hung up on weight, especially unsprung weight, but that is no longer an issue in the era of ebikes, imo.
To be fair, it is a lot of money, either way, Rohloff or Kindernay. But everytime one of our group has to repair something, I feel that could have just as easily been me having the problem and I mentally credit that cost against the Kindernay.
It will pay for itself, in time. But until that day, the confidence that I'll never have drivetrain issues again is worth any expense.
maynard
E*POWAH Elite World Champion
How much does the kindernay weight ? Looks like a nice system
Yes it looks very nice & also easily swappable.
When you include all the components on a derailleur setup, including the last century hub especially a durable one, the weight penalty is very marginal or non-existent.
FAQ - Kindernay
kindernay.com
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