Anyone ride in Washington State, USA?

[Casey]

I am interested in purchasing an EMTB but after doing some online research I found out that a law was passed this year that made it illegal to ride ebikes on "unimproved natural surface trails" unless the local land managers post signs specifically saying that ebikes can ride the trails.
E-Bike Legislation Passes in WA Senate and House.

I also came across forums with a lot of people (MTB riders, hikers) that seem to hate EMTB's and don't think they should be allowed on "their trails".

Questions for anyone who rides in Washington State, USA:
Have you ran into any issues with the legality of riding trails (ie from park rangers)?
What is the real world feeling you get from other trail users (are the haters just a small group that lurks in the shadows online or is that the real feeling form MTB riders)?
Have you ridden at Duthie Hill?
Any bike parks that seem to be OK with EMTB's?
Thanks!

 

[Bumbershoot]

Hi Casey,
I can't specifically answer your question in regards to Washington, as I'm in Oregon (Bend). I haven't run across any hassles with any folks here about my EMTB, and MTBs and hikers are everywhere around here. I don't go out of my way to provoke anyone, but still, I've never run across a single "hater".

I don't think the issue here is so much about hostility EMTBs, it's that the trail maintainers and land managers generally take very conservative approach to allowing EMTBs on trails, especially on Federal public land (Forest Service and BLM managed land). The right to ride MTBs on trails on public land is a hard won privilege, which nobody wants to see jeopardized by the appearance of e-bikes where they're not allowed. As a result, many land managers, having no real discretion, have to take a conservative approach to allowing EMTBs on trails. My guess is that until the Federal Government takes an approach like that taken by Washington State, "Trails can now be opened...", nothing will improve.

2) Natural Surface Trails

E-bikes are not allowed on natural surface trails, unless signed or stated open by the managing jurisdiction. Trails can now be opened to e-bikes without being open to motorized vehicles (dirt bikes).

I think the Washington legislation is actually good, as it defines the classes of e-bikes, and it allows for a land managers discretion regarding e-bikes. It's easy to imagine class 1 e-bikes being allowed on trails, while class 2 and above are not.

As for Duthie Hill, it's managed by King County Parks. It probably wouldn't hurt to advocate for the inclusion of class 1 e-bikes on the property, seeing how the law allows them with the land managers approval. You can cite this study as proof that class 1 EMTBs don't inflict unusual damage to forest trails. I worked for King County for over 30 years, and in my experience, direct citizen (voter) input can often get results - not quickly, but results non-the-less. If nothing else, KC Parks should provide a rational for disallowing class 1 e-bikes on park trails. I see nothing on their website except a general statement that trails are for "unmotorized uses".

Good luck!

 

[Casey]

@Bumbershoot, thanks for you input. It’s nice to have your perspective as a PNW rider. That study should be useful and I’ll try and get it into the hands of those that can help. Happy riding!

 

[Brianjonesphoto]

I’m in the Seattle area and plan on buying a bike soon. I’m going to take the “forgiveness is easier than permission” approach. I have no interest riding at Duthie or anywhere else where the eliteist attitudes tend to hang out. I’d ont have time to ride on weekend either. I highly doubt any land manager would give you any hassle unless you areriding like an asshole.

I really hope Evergreen stops being so myopic and sees that this is the future of the sport. Joe Schmoe isn’t going to drop $5k on an ebike and rip up the trails. Do they not realize that the very people how could help build the club are the ones they are alienating? Affluent people that are excited getting out and riding.

It would be nice if we could adopt a more European attitude about ebikes. While it may have a motor if I don’t pedal it don’t go. That’s a bicycle to me.

 

[Al Boneta]

My wife’s family lives in the Seattle area and I usually will bring my bike with me so I can drive up to Bellingham to ride Galbraith. I did it once on my Ebike and I thought the locals were going to bury me in the woods. I have never been called so many names in my life.

 

[Mabman]

My wife’s family lives in the Seattle area and I usually will bring my bike with me somIncan drive up to Bellingham to ride Galbraith. I did it once on my Ebike and I thought the locals were going to bury me in the woods. I have never been called so many names in my life.

If you had thought to ask if eBikes were allowed on Galby before you rode it would have saved your ears. I know I did and was happy to abide by their rule against their use there although I don't necessarily agree with it.

 

[Al Boneta]

If you had thought to ask if eBikes were allowed on Galby before you rode it would have saved your ears. I know I did and was happy to abide by their rule against their use there although I don't necessarily agree with it.

This was in 2015, when there were no rules or ordinances against Ebikes

 

[Dax]

Shame ebikes are banned, it's one of the places that would really suit ebikes. One of my favourite rides ever was at rosyln, spent 4 hours carrying our bikes through snow and then hit rat pack, fantastic decent. Would love to do it again on the kenevo

 

[Wiltshire Warrior]

I just watched "the man in the high castle" so is Washingtons Radioactivty cleared up now?

 

[Mabman]

I just watched "the man in the high castle" so is Washingtons Radioactivty cleared up now?

Far from it, research Hanford Nuclear.....

 

[Brianjonesphoto]

I wrote to Evergreen this weekend about their position on EMTB access

Hello
I am writing to find out more about Evergreen’s position and outlook on trail access to class 1 pedal assist mountain bikes. I’ve been an avid mountain biker since the early 90’s and put myself through collage working in the bike industry. I have become interested in an emtb because it could be a way for me to re-enter the sport after battling multiple complications from an auto accident 10 years ago. I’ve tried riding several times since but the nerve damage sustained has resulted in a significant strength deficit in my left leg. I’ve had to get by on a road bike for the last several years and miss the trails.

As I’ve been researching bikes, I was quite surprised to discover that attitudes toward emtb’s in the northwest are so different than I expected. I’ve seen how riding in Europe has been transformed as people have embraced the technology. From the outside it almost appears that local riders strongly opposed to emtbs if not completely close minded to them.

With the offerings from the major manufacturers constantly improving and expanding, bike shops are selling more units every year. What is Evergreen’s vision for how emtbs fit into the mountain bike user group and trail access? I know that Evergreen had a part in the legislation that past this spring creating a legal definition for e-bikes to distinguish from motorcycles/ATVs. Is Evergreen working with any land managers to open some areas to class 1 use?

While I understand that there is very limited legal riding areas open to emtbs right now, the current recommendation on your site is to ride trails open to motor users is a bit off putting. If I wanted to ride those areas I’d be looking at dirt bikes not mountain bikes. It would be very nice to see Evergreen get behind a pilot program to open one or two areas closer to the metro area to class 1 bikes as see what the real world effects are both in environment and cultural aspects.

Thank you for your time and consideration.

I was pleasantly surprised to get a response at lunch today.


“Brian,

Good timing on the email inquiry, there's lots happening. We just presented options for pilots in 2019 at the WSTC conference to get a snse what other trail users' response would be. I think you must have read our blog and seen the flyer related to current legal ebike use on our website, based on your comments. Yes, that flyer simpliy outlines where the law currently allows you to ride and shows that there are quite a few options at this time for folks who are considering purchasing an e-bike at this time, but don't want to break the law.

We are not pushing for full ebike access on all non-motorized trails, but we are working on legislation that will allow for trail access in places where it makes sense, and where we won't need to worry about equestrian and hiker concerns, or strong historic multi-use on overcrowded trails (like Grand Ridge), nor jeopardize our eligibility for RCO grant funding. Details are in the two blog posts I've written about the subject. Sofar Evergreen is receiving much support in how we are handling the issue: working to expand access for our growing multi-fasceted sport, yet being sensitive to other non motorized trail users who are not quite as open to the idea of eMTBs on all trails. The fire around this issue seems to have reduced to a slow burn, with most of the objections coming from the internal Mountain Biking Community. I expect that agencies will all have dedicated EMTB policies within the next 2 years, and we anticipate our first pilot project to start up this spring.

I hope you'll find our approach reasonable and practical - hanks for your inquiry and stay tuned!”

Looks like there might be some progress on opening some more trails soon.

 

[Duderino]

Hi everyone, any updates/progress made in WA on Class1 or something else?

 

[Weeds]

Are you looking to ride single track? I live in Eastern Washington near the Cascades, and only ride single track when the trails are not crowded. At my age, 69, I prefer unpaved, little used roads. The farther east you go the less the rules are enforced. The Forest Service is very uninformed about their own rules. When I inquired at the local FS office about e-bikes only one person knew what I was talking about. When I started riding mountain bikes in 1989 we rode the motorcycle trails.

 

[Duderino]

Thanks for the reply. Happy for you to see you're not getting into any trouble!

I'm looking to hit Tiger, Duthie, Tokul and others alike on the west side close to home. I find silly the legislation as the industry is going into that direction, with or without laws, and as on any technological advancement, the more time you invest on R&D, the lighter and cheaper the bikes will be. The only risk I see with e-MTBs is on confusing electric dirt bikes on with e-MTB and get them on MTB trails. Solution is quite simple IMHO: classify them! If a YT Decoy is a "class whatever" e-MTB and allow them on existing MTB trails. Whatever is not a "class whatever" is not allowed.

To me the advantage of an e-bike is simple: I can go up much easier on places like Tiger and hit some trails down more than once per ride without running out of steam. E-mtbs don't have a "throttle", so if you don't pedal the thing doesn't move. Where's the problem with that?

 

[Casey]

@Duderino I ended up getting a Specilized Turbo Levo and have been riding it for the last few months. I’ve taken it to Tokul, Duthie, Lord Hill, and Galbraith a few times. I’ve never had anyone give me a hard time while riding there. If anyone notices at all they just seem to be curious and ask questions and if they seem really interested I offer to let them take it for a lap. I’ve let about 10 guys ride my bike and they all come back with a big smile and and usually say they’re going to start saving for one.
Technically the restriction is on “unimproved natural surface trails” so I’m pretty comfortable using the assistances to go up logging roads and when going down gravity trails I usually have the motor off. So I’m not using the ebike on unimproved natural surface trails ?. At least that’s how I justify it.
The guy from evergreen mountain bike alliance told me a few months ago that the new trail system up at Darrington called. North Mountain will be fully open to class 1 ebikes when it opens “later this summer”. Looks like that one will be pretty rad and it’s not much further then Galbraith.

 

[Duderino]

Cool!

do you mean "improved natural surface trails"?

Is there any advantage of turning on the ebike while going down?

 

[Casey]

Here is the actual law that explains the restriction...
"Except as otherwise provided in this section, an individual shall not operate an electric-assisted bicycle on a trail that is specifically designated as nonmotorized and that has a natural surface tread that is made by clearing and grading the native soil with no added surfacing materials. A local authority or agency of this state having jurisdiction over a trail described in this subsection may allow the operation of an electric-assisted bicycle on that trail."

Depending on the trail you might want the motor on. If its a steeper gravity trail and its designed well I don't feel the need for the motor most the time. Keep in mind it does not provide any assistance over 20mpg. If its a trail that's hard to maintain speed or if I'm sessioning a jump section i will utilize the motor. It's nice to get up to speed quick to practice a jump over and over instead of going to the top and building up speed.

If you haven't yet you should just get one. Think it will be a little questionable for a few years but I think it's only a matter of time until most the trail centers will allow class 1 bikes. From the land mangers i've talked to its just pushback from the the MTB community that is holding things up. Most if that stems from misinformation; usually when i let someone ride my bike the first thing they ask is "where's the throttle". I believe most people that have an issue with them have never seen one and have an image of a electrical motorcycle flying up the trials into them at 50mph. The more of us that are out there riding eMTB's in a respectful way the sooner the MTP community at large will accept them and be willing to share the trails.

 

[Weeds]

Love my Levo.

 

[Rusty]

I remember riding a MTB somewhere around Seattle 20 years ago when visiting relatives and was roundly abused for daring to ride where people were hiking and for destroying the environment ... I was on an access road and not any sort of singletrack or hiking trails.
Now MTB are pretty much accepted the same misery-guts are targeting eMTB.

 

[motoadve]

Dont recommend Duthie to take an e bike, too many people too much exposure, plus the trails dont even justify an e bike, there is hardly any vertical.

 

[Duderino]

yeah but I'll not have 2 bikes....if I go for an eMTB that will be my only bike...

 

[Casey]

FYI North Mountain in Darrington Wa was opened officially a few weeks ago and Evergreen MTB has opened it up to class 1 EMTB’s. It’s pretty great seeing those official signs posted. I ran into the lead trail builder out there and he’s got an emtb and says it’s only a matter of time.
They are some great natural trails ranging from 2-5mi and tons of descending. You can self shuttle up a mixture of logging roads and some single track. Definitely worth the drive out there. North Mountain on Trailforks http://www.trailforks.com/region/north-mountain-12300

Grand Ridge in Issaquah starting at Duthie is showing up on Trail Forks as open to ebikes. I haven’t been there to see any signs posted but that would be a fun 18mi out and back over a decent hill. Grand Ridge on Trailforks https://www.trailforks.com/trails/grand-ridge/

 

[jcmonty]

I was up in WA, east of Seattle last month for work (Snoqualmie to be exact). Didn't get to ride any sort of bike, but right around Duthie Bike Park I saw someone with the 2019 Carbon Levo Expert. Was surprise given what I had heard about WA being unfriendly to Ebikes. Glad to hear it's warming up!

 

[Bryan Wells]

My wife’s family lives in the Seattle area and I usually will bring my bike with me so I can drive up to Bellingham to ride Galbraith. I did it once on my Ebike and I thought the locals were going to bury me in the woods. I have never been called so many names in my life.

exactly how I get treated, I live in Washington and to be honest ended up buying a set of road tires for the levo due to so much hate literally driving me off any trails, I gave up and have to ride on the road...with a freaking $9K full sus mtb... i'm stuck riging the one dirtbike path or the effin road... I even helped build trails with the locals and they still bitched me off the land with all kinds of threats.

 

[grantini]

Y’all need to just go out and ride.

 

[Brianjonesphoto]

I’m see signs that the tide might be starting to shift. Have you seen this post from Evergreen? Updates On e-MTB Access & Advocacy In Washington

I was out at my most frequented trail system this week and talked to a couple of Snohomish county park rangers after I watched them ask a group on narrow track electric ATVs to please stay in the main trail back to the trail head and leave.

I asked them about the overall view of ebikes within the parks department. They currently have no official stance one way or another. Complete gray area and some personal discretion. The rangers I was speaking with said they have NOT been told to keep ebikes out of trail systems and don’t really see any issue with them.

I thought I’d push a bit harder and ask about the ability to bring my 6 year old son out to these trails on his Oset electric trials bike. They didn’t say it was a good idea but it is still in the gray area although it’s a much darker gray. For this ranger at least it sounds like a throttle is the a big deciding factor. No throttle=bike throttle=motorized vehicle.

It’s slowly moving in our favor. From my own many positive experiences in the past year. I’ve ridden 925 miles of single track this year on my emtb without any incident and 85% on trails systems not officially open to ebikes.
I have let at least 3 random strangers in regular bikes try my bike for a trail and each time it’s ended with wow I really want one of these now.

Two things I think has made a difference for me is don’t ride at peak times and use a bell in crowded or twisty areas.

 

[Mabman]

Rode an IMBA epic trail in WA last summer on a weekday and all we saw were two gals on horseback and three bikes none of which seemed to care. Did run out of my 520wh battery however and had to slog a few miles back up to the car.....but the single track dh was well worth it as well as the views up top.

 

[jcmonty]

Rode an IMBA epic trail in WA last summer on a weekday and all we saw were two gals on horseback and three bikes none of which seemed to care. Did run out of my 520wh battery however and had to slog a few miles back up to the car.....but the single track dh was well worth it as well as the views up top.

View attachment 23384

link the trail or ride? Looks epic

 

[protowheeler]

Well..it's been 3 years since the last post

Any interesting updates on eMTBs in Washington state? I'm newer to the area. I keep checking Evergreen's site but that's about all I know to look at.

 

[caseyherring]

I ride my Emtb at Yacolt Burn in Southwest Washington everyday, as do most of the trail builders.