Anyone moved away from Cushcore?

Christurbo

E*POWAH Master
Jul 11, 2023
384
722
North Wales
Has anyone moved back to standard tubeless setup but with, let’s say, a tougher tyre. E.g a DH Maxxis?

I’m wondering if I’d get a benefit of lighter rotational mass but with the durability from a DH tyre.

I’m running DD with CC front and rear (Maxxis DH II and Assegai)
 

Mrj35

Member
Sep 29, 2023
194
124
canada
on ebike I am running dh casing rear with a tube at (38psi) and front is currently double down at 32 psi but I will switch to dh casing front as well once that one is worn out.

I tried cushcore a couple months ago in the rear for the sole purpose of preventing rim damage on a cheaper wheel that came stock but that didn't help lol. I'm comfortable with riding the higher pressures so it works great for me. I weigh around 215lbs and mostly ride dh terrain.
On my enduro bike I never tried tire inserts and usually ran 30psi rear and 28psi front.
 

Haveland

Active member
Apr 21, 2022
218
152
New Brunswick, Canada
I can't see ever moving away from it on my full power emtbs but if I get a shorter travel mid/low power emtb in the future I'd consider not running it for the weight and better rolling. But I just enjoy the piece of mind so much of knowing it is in there as I run some really rooty/rocky stuff.
 

KnollyBro

E*POWAH Elite World Champion
Dec 3, 2020
1,004
2,348
Vancouver
Has anyone moved back to standard tubeless setup but with, let’s say, a tougher tyre. E.g a DH Maxxis?

I’m wondering if I’d get a benefit of lighter rotational mass but with the durability from a DH tyre.

I’m running DD with CC front and rear (Maxxis DH II and Assegai)
How does one measure the effect of the change in rotational mass? After spending $2000 on carbon wheels, I use EXO+ tires with Cushcore at F18 R22 with no issues on the trails I ride. My Knolly Warden uses the same setup but weighs around 7 lbs less and rides "better" than my KSL. IMHO, its not the wheels.
 

Mcharza

E*POWAH BOSS
Aug 10, 2018
2,617
5,393
Helsinki, Finland
I myself have returned to DD and DH tires without Cushcore on both bikes, Enduro mtb and light emtb. Both Maxxis and Conti.

22 psi in the front and 25 psi in the rear and haven't really had any problems.
It's maybe because of my lighter weight and the slower speed of the old guy.

This summer there are probably about 54 bike park days and yes I jump and drop, but not the biggest ones.
 
Last edited:

KnollyBro

E*POWAH Elite World Champion
Dec 3, 2020
1,004
2,348
Vancouver
Did they say why ?
Business 101. Develop a competitive product and include it with your wheels. Their Actuary says they can sell more wheels at a higher cost by not endorsing another company. Even if they have to replace a few of their own wheels if they do break, that number/cost is irrelevant, as most people who buy their wheels are posers and ride like pussies. :)
 

InRustWeTrust

E*POWAH Master
Mar 9, 2020
524
758
Sweden
I have also taken out my cushcores and gone back to tires with DD casing instead. the reason i took out my cushcores was that i thought the bike understeered and made the bike feel a bit like a fat bike with steering
 

Plummet

Flash Git
Mar 16, 2023
1,152
1,634
New Zealand
Did they say why ?

I have to say that it works too. I've taken some decent hits on these rims that would have dented alloy and smashed chinese carbon to bits.

That's one wide ass bead. I measured mine at 4.3mm. Widest chinese are 3.0mm and alloy are like 2mm

From the website

1698910244948.png


 

E Bob

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2021
360
359
torfaen
They certainly aint sharp, suprised none of the other wheel manufactures havent done this, Still Looks roomy enough to run a cushcore in there too
 

B1rdie

E*POWAH Elite World Champion
Subscriber
Feb 14, 2019
898
1,101
Brazil
Did they say why ?
My guess is that they have more warranty issues due to people damaging the rim while trying to undo the tyre from the bead, because of the cushcore inside, than damages cause by actual riding.
 

Mrj35

Member
Sep 29, 2023
194
124
canada
How does one measure the effect of the change in rotational mass? After spending $2000 on carbon wheels, I use EXO+ tires with Cushcore at F18 R22 with no issues on the trails I ride. My Knolly Warden uses the same setup but weighs around 7 lbs less and rides "better" than my KSL. IMHO, its not the wheels.
I don't know how you guys do it with low psi lol. I rented a
I guess only pro enduro racers actually use cushcore, for two reasons:
They'd better save their time on a stage than a rim
They have mechanics to deal with cushcore for them.
Yeah pros use it so they can finish the stage on a flat.
 

RJUK

Active member
Sep 29, 2021
571
300
UK
I used Tannus Inserts in my last bike and it was such a tw@ getting them in the wheels that I'm not running inserts on my new bike. If I had a bad enough puncture on the trail that the sealant wouldn't seal, I have no idea how I'd have gotten them out of the wheel trailside to fit a tube. Nearly killed me getting the tyres back on with brand new, clean wheels and tyres from the comfort of my kitchen, let alone with trail tools out on the trail.

I'd consider running them if there was a version that was easier to install, but the Tannus inserts were supposed to be easy compared to Cushcore and they took hours of fighting, so I can only imagine how hard Cushcore is. I've seen reports online of people giving up and taking their bikes to the bike shop to get them fitted.... Which is fine until you get a flat and need to fix it yourself in the wild...
 

GDAS

Member
Sep 19, 2018
126
88
Surrey, UK
I ran Cushcore on the rear, I'd read reports about the "suspension effect" from Cushcore being "the most significant development since the dropper seat post", I watched all the fitting videos, bought the special tool, and still it was an absolute pig to fit so when the tyre needed replacing I switched to Rimpact which was an easier fit and seems fine to me, but I'm not a very extreme rider.

BTW, does anyone know why there isn't the equivalent of an off-road motorcycle mousse (i.e. full insert, no air) available for mountain bikes?
 

KnollyBro

E*POWAH Elite World Champion
Dec 3, 2020
1,004
2,348
Vancouver
I used Tannus Inserts in my last bike and it was such a tw@ getting them in the wheels that I'm not running inserts on my new bike. If I had a bad enough puncture on the trail that the sealant wouldn't seal, I have no idea how I'd have gotten them out of the wheel trailside to fit a tube. Nearly killed me getting the tyres back on with brand new, clean wheels and tyres from the comfort of my kitchen, let alone with trail tools out on the trail.

I'd consider running them if there was a version that was easier to install, but the Tannus inserts were supposed to be easy compared to Cushcore and they took hours of fighting, so I can only imagine how hard Cushcore is. I've seen reports online of people giving up and taking their bikes to the bike shop to get them fitted.... Which is fine until you get a flat and need to fix it yourself in the wild...
The only reason its taking people "hours" to install an insert is that they dont watch the installation video. If I get a puncture out on the trail, I am NOT taking out the Cushcure as its much more difficult to do that without a large garbage can to rest the wheel on (not often found on the trails I ride). The few times I have had a puncture, I have used bacon strips and they have sealed the area. YMMV but I am rarely a few KM away from my car if I had to walk out but I would never run flat tires with Cushcore in them as it not worth damaging an expensive rim.
It all comes down to how much tire pressure you want to run and the trail you like to ride. If you can handle higher tire pressure and dont mind changing tubes, why bother with going tubeless at all.
 

E Bob

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2021
360
359
torfaen
I ran Cushcore on the rear, I'd read reports about the "suspension effect" from Cushcore being "the most significant development since the dropper seat post", I watched all the fitting videos, bought the special tool, and still it was an absolute pig to fit so when the tyre needed replacing I switched to Rimpact which was an easier fit and seems fine to me, but I'm not a very extreme rider.

BTW, does anyone know why there isn't the equivalent of an off-road motorcycle mousse (i.e. full insert, no air) available for mountain bikes?
if you struggled with a cushcore a mouse would break you.. but to answer your question, it's got to be the difference in the tyres, Weight of the bikes. id say you got to have some air in a mtb tyre.
 

Leeky1

Member
Jan 29, 2023
26
17
Shropshire
Yes I’ve come away from them and gone back to tubes. Fed up of having flats. With the Cushcore in I found the holes could not be filled by the sealant. Nearly every ride had a flat. Back to tubes for the last 2 months and not had any issues 🤞
 

RJUK

Active member
Sep 29, 2021
571
300
UK
The only reason its taking people "hours" to install an insert is that they dont watch the installation video. If I get a puncture out on the trail, I am NOT taking out the Cushcure as its much more difficult to do that without a large garbage can to rest the wheel on (not often found on the trails I ride). The few times I have had a puncture, I have used bacon strips and they have sealed the area. YMMV but I am rarely a few KM away from my car if I had to walk out but I would never run flat tires with Cushcore in them as it not worth damaging an expensive rim.
It all comes down to how much tire pressure you want to run and the trail you like to ride. If you can handle higher tire pressure and dont mind changing tubes, why bother with going tubeless at all.
Incorrect. I watched a ton of videos from numerous people for various different inserts and still struggled. Getting the last bit of bead on is an utter tw@ and even after successfully getting one on I still struggled just as bad with the second.

Bacon strips won't save you if you get any sort of cut in the tyre - that's what a spare tube is for.
 

maker

Member
Feb 13, 2020
63
32
North Wales
Has anyone moved back to standard tubeless setup but with, let’s say, a tougher tyre. E.g a DH Maxxis?

I’m wondering if I’d get a benefit of lighter rotational mass but with the durability from a DH tyre.

I’m running DD with CC front and rear (Maxxis DH II and Assegai)
Got rid as didn't protect rims when flat, and very hard to reseat repaired tyre back home which would have been even harder in the wild.
 

RJUK

Active member
Sep 29, 2021
571
300
UK
Yes I’ve come away from them and gone back to tubes. Fed up of having flats. With the Cushcore in I found the holes could not be filled by the sealant. Nearly every ride had a flat. Back to tubes for the last 2 months and not had any issues 🤞
This was another issue I had with the Tannus Armour - the sealant didn't seem to be able to get everywhere it needed to, and I was constantly pumping the tyres back up.

I'm still tubeless though. My tyres are quite chunky and I'm pretty light. Also, after seeing Fanatik abuse a rim on a hard tail with not even a tyre on it and to see what it held up to, I'm fairly sure I should be OK.
 

E Bob

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2021
360
359
torfaen
i'v never had any issues fitting a cushcore, i do give it a stretch "put my foot on it and pull up" but no special method in fitting, i also cut a little square out of the inner centre then line my valve up with it, helps the sealent to get everywhere it could be needed. i do carry a spare tube but have never needed it
 

RJUK

Active member
Sep 29, 2021
571
300
UK
if you struggled with a cushcore a mouse would break you.. but to answer your question, it's got to be the difference in the tyres, Weight of the bikes. id say you got to have some air in a mtb tyre.
I've not tried Cushcore, but from the numerous reports online of people struggling, the amount of videos on YouTube offering assistance and the fact that Cushcore make a special tool for fitting the tyre with their insert inside, I'd suggest that's not the case. Plenty of people are struggling and my experience of the Tannus Armour supports the fact that it's not easy. It's not even about strength to get it on - you get to a point where it's concerning how much leverage you're having to put on the rim to try to lift the tyre over. Plus the fact that the tyre likes to unseat on the opposite end of the but you're doing.
In the end I was using velcro straps cinched down tight on the tyre to stop it coming back off as I was levering the last bit on.

It was all a massive hassle and something I wouldn't be able to do trailside. It would be a shame to have to walk home rather than just sling a tube in and keep riding.
 

RJUK

Active member
Sep 29, 2021
571
300
UK
i'v never had any issues fitting a cushcore, i do give it a stretch "put my foot on it and pull up" but no special method in fitting, i also cut a little square out of the inner centre then line my valve up with it, helps the sealent to get everywhere it could be needed. i do carry a spare tube but have never needed it
I'd have liked you to have been present when I was fitting my Tannus inserts then! I suspect either your tyres are a bit looser than mine were, or you were really levering it on... Though I'd be interested to see how you stopped the tyre coming back off on one side whilst you lever on the other.

I watched all the videos with guys using bins to help hold the wheel, but getting the insert in isn't the issue, it's just getting the last bit of tyre bead back on. (And yes, I squeezed everything down into the middle of the rim as much as possible. My hands were killing by the end of it from doing that so many times.)

I suspect the difference between those saying it's easy and those saying it's hard is more about the design of the rim and tightness of the tyre than any abundance or lack of skill.
 

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