Anyone got issues on the 11t ring?

[noob2gnarly]

Really battling with my 11t ring whenever I put any torque in to it. Hard to see exactly what is happening but it’s slipping a fair bit with a new cassette, new chain, recently installed by the pros.

 

[GrahamPaul]

H screw not set correctly?

Easy to check:
How to Adjust a Rear Derailleur – Limit Screws & Indexing

(Just because it was done by a professional, doesn't mean that they did all the checks properly).

 

[KennyB]

I'd check the B tension screw as well.

 

[paul-g]

the term slipping do you mean jumping the teeth

 

[noob2gnarly]

the term slipping do you mean jumping the teeth

Yeah seems to be jumping teeth.

 

[noob2gnarly]

Had a good play with it last night. Indexing and limits are spot on. The only symptom I’ve found other than the slipping while riding is when I spin the wheel backwards the angle of the chain from the cassette to the chain ring is so great that starts trying to move up to the next ring... not a problem moving forwards because the derailleur is set correctly. So not sure if this is related but it’s the only “issue” I could find.

I’ve got the derailleur as high as I can without it touching the bigger rings to create as much contact as possible...
If that chain angle is a problem, not sure how I could fix it.. spacer on the front chainring? Is that a thing?

 

[Dan63]

I don't believe it should be trying to jump off if it is setup correctly. Can you move the limit over so it's pushed out a little further? Back the b screw off until 46T gets tricky/heavy to select and then add half a turn. This seems to work for me and gives the most chain wrap

Is there any problems with the freehub driver body? The Alloy driver on my hubs is wearing a little down that end of the cassette.

 

[noob2gnarly]

I don't believe it should be trying to jump off if it is setup correctly. Can you move the limit over so it's pushed out a little further? Back the b screw off until 46T gets tricky/heavy to select and then add half a turn. This seems to work for me and gives the most chain wrap

Is there any problems with the freehub driver body? The Alloy driver on my hubs is wearing a little down that end of the cassette.

Thanks Dan, chain wrap is the term I was looking for... lol. Yeah that was my method for setting b screw.
Bike shop checked free hub when installing new cassette as I specifically asked them too, but I guess I could have a look myself.
Seems odd the chain trying to move up to the 13t ring when I spin the wheel backwards. Does that happen to anyone else?

 

[noob2gnarly]

Might check clutch tension tonight too...

 

[Gary]

I’ve got the derailleur as high as I can without it touching the bigger rings to create as much contact as possible...
If that chain angle is a problem, not sure how I could fix it.. spacer on the front chainring? Is that a thing?

chain length affects jockey wheel position also.
running the shortest chain possible moves the mech cage forwards and upwards. This simultaniously lowers the top jockey wheel allowing you to back off B-tension even further (raising the top jockey) and creating greater chain wrap (increased chain contact) on the smaller sprockets.

The real problem is *STUPID massive range cassettes.

I've moved to 10 speed on my Ebike and now run an 11-36 off road and an 11-25 on road... Far better chain wrap... better cassette life, more useable gearing and cheaper drivetrain. A stiffer, shorter cage rear mech is a bonus too.


*I'm still fairly fit though so don't actually need a motor or super low gearing to climb.

Seems odd the chain trying to move up to the 13t ring when I spin the wheel backwards. Does that happen to anyone else?

this is pretty normal TBH. although it's usually far more commonly seen with the chain dropping from the largest sprocket to the second largest. It's just because the chains angle is at an extreme. This is how a derailleur gearing system works in the first place so it stands to reason with no guide a rearwards rotating chain will want to shift to a straighter chain line/angle.

 

[noob2gnarly]

chain length affects jockey wheel position also.
running the shortest chain possible moves the mech cage forwards and upwards. This simultaniously lowers the top jockey wheel allowing you to back off B-tension even further (raising the top jockey) and creating greater chain wrap (increased chain contact) on the smaller sprockets.

The real problem is *STUPID massive range cassettes.

I've moved to 10 speed on my Ebike and now run an 11-36 off road and an 11-25 on road... Far better chain wrap... better cassette life, more useable gearing and cheaper drivetrain. A stiffer, shorter cage rear mech is a bonus too.


*I'm still fairly fit though so don't actually need a motor or super low gearing to climb.


this is pretty normal TBH. although it's usually far more commonly seen with the chain dropping from the largest sprocket to the second largest. It's just because the chains angle is at an extreme. This is how a derailleur gearing system works in the first place so it stands to reason with no guide a rearwards rotating chain will want to shift to a straighter chain line/angle.

Thanks Gary, that’s really helpful.
I’ll fiddle with the clutch first and if no good I’ll experiment with chain length. ?

 

[Gary]

the clutch only gives tension to the chain reducing chain slap. it doesn't create any extra chain wrap.
If your chain is slipping on a sprocket it'll slip just the same under load with the clutch off or on and adjusted/dialled to max.

It's only slipping under load. yeah?
And I guess it's much worse the higher assist mode?
what sort of cadences are you doing when it slips?
riding at higher cadences (lower torque) when climbing/sprinting will reduce chain slip
Learn to spin faster and use more of your cassette.

 

[noob2gnarly]

Yes only slipping under load. Worse on boost. I’m being careful to keep the cadence up but it’s slipping way too much for it to be considered normal or just bad technique. I’m getting pretty tidy with my shifts... I think ?
Haven’t had a chance to try shortening the chain yet. Will do ASAP.

I worry it might be the hub... what would I be looking for if I look in to that?

 

[KennyB]

Don't knows what drivetrain your running but for SRAM GX 11 speed the way to get correct chain length on a full sus is to:
Split the chain
Wrap round large sprocket and chain ring
Overlap end by 4 links (2 outers and 2 inners)
Bin excess and rejoin
Up to you if you use a new speedlink but that is a whole new topic, there is a thread!

 

[Beatn1K]

My e160 started doing this in about 9-10th gear. Stood up & pedaling hard in brief bursts between turns in tight single track, it slips. Trail mode.
Its <200 miles old and OEM drivetrain. Only difference is I swapped the jockey wheels for an alu version with ceramic bearings...
Keep us posted if you find the fix..?

cheers

 

[noob2gnarly]

just done some fiddling. I’m happy with chain length and derailleur setup. But noticed a slight wiggle between sprockets so Checked the torque on the (excuse my lack of terminology) cassette tightening bit... ?
as I got to the specified torque the hub slipped!!
So I presume that means I’m up for a new free hub.

If that’s the case I’m pretty mad with the LBS.
Specifically told them I suspected this before handing it over to them for a very expensive service and new cassette... ??‍

 

[Gary]

What hub is it?
Sounds like the pawls or ratchet ring are worn out.
Or you could simply have shit in there stopping the pawls engaging.
if it's a sealed bearing hub most freehubs simply pull off (after first removing the cassette and undo-ing or pulling the end cap off). Pretty easy to inspect for anyone with basic maintenance skills

 

[noob2gnarly]

that’ll do it...

 

[Gary]

Eh? ?

 

[noob2gnarly]

Eh? ?

 

[Beatn1K]

That's not too clever...!
I wonder how this occurred- probably got some sh1te in there would be my guess...? Whats the reciprocal cassette like -wait, didnt you just say you had it replaced..? The LBS missed this...?
I been watching the Magura brake install thread debacle with the Preston bike shop fiasco...You cant get the staff eh!??!
Going to pull mine down already and see if I can rescue it !

 

[Beatn1K]

Having just removed my cassette for a look at the splines, I can see that this happens without the ingress of foreign matter (that shouldnt get in there...) Its wear.
And mine, whilst not as bad as yours, also shows the same symptoms...
In order to save the splines on the hub, I suppose I should replace the cassette....? TBH- If the replacement parts arent made to really quite good and tight tolerances, I think this will become an issue. Steel cassette running on aluminium hub parts. Its the price we pay for everything needing to be so light. Im not sure this isnt a self fulfillng ( & wallet emptying) prophecy...!
Having bought mine over the internet as an end of line deal, from the other side of the coubntry - warranty could be a real PITA if, as the local Merida bike shop has insisted in conversations earlier in the month, I have to go back to the point of sale to get a decision on any warranty issues..

 

[noob2gnarly]

Ooookay so these indents aren’t enough to make it slip according to popular opinion... I’ll try and get a gopro shot of it slipping.

 

[Bravestarr]

My splines got a bit chewed up like the ones shown. This was due to the retainer becoming loose and it resulted in the smaller rings moving slightly under load. This created a fair bit of noise.
When I changed my cassette I torqued the retainer up tightly as so far (300 miles or so) on the new cassette all is well.
I may have to change the splines at some point down the road but at the moment it is all good.