Anyone gone from......

[Wilford Matt]

.......... a normal mtb to superlight emtb and regretted it?

Thinking of an Orbea Rise.
I can ride most stuff up and down. The problem I have is that it wipes me out going up hills. I can do them, but I'm generally cooked. Its a general suffer fest. Decents aren't a pleasure as I'm tired. Then to drive home wiped out and then depending on what I've done, can take a day or 2 to recover. (I will say I have an auto immune disease so this I'm sure won't help).
I'm hoping that what I think I can get from a superlight, is like a push in the back up hill, so yes I'm expecting to be a little fatigued after a few hours on the bike, as the Rise requires - from what I understand more rider input than a full fat emtb. But I would not be so wiped out that I struggle to go out or do any activities for a day or 2 due to feeling exhausted.
Anyone experienced this or done this?

 

[Russell]

Your over thinking it, just get a normal ebike, turn it up or down as required, be happy.
If you're not carrying it over styles every few yards you won't notice any weight difference.
You will however notice when the half size battery goes flat.

 

[Mikerb]

your post reads like the raison d'etre for emtbs! (full fat).

 

[Tonybro]

I'm not so sure he is, Russell.

I went straight to full fat eMTB and they are heavy. I then went down to an Orbea Rise lightweight to get a more maneuverable bike with some assistance. I get the same distance but more of a workout than my full-fat. Even on my full-fat I lost weight and reduced the assistance levels and I still use it (just nowhere near as much) as my Orbea. It's definitely an easier ride on general trails but does become more of a handful when I'm trying to manhandle another 6 kilos (12lbs) in the trees and technical sections. The Orbea is more enjoyable.

Choice is the rider's and Wilford Matt has laid out his case and I think it has some validity. Don't get me wrong, if he does grab a full fat eMTB, you still won't be able to wipe the smile from his face and there may be a case for it over a lightweight due to auto-immune disease wiping poor Matt out on his unassisted MTB. It depends on how Matt feels about the weight over his current bike.

Neither decision will be wrong!

 

[Wilford Matt]

I'm not so sure he is, Russell.

I went straight to full fat eMTB and they are heavy. I then went down to an Orbea Rise lightweight to get a more maneuverable bike with some assistance. I get the same distance but more of a workout than my full-fat. Even on my full-fat I lost weight and reduced the assistance levels and I still use it (just nowhere near as much) as my Orbea. It's definitely an easier ride on general trails but does become more of a handful when I'm trying to manhandle another 6 kilos (12lbs) in the trees and technical sections. The Orbea is more enjoyable.

Choice is the rider's and Wilford Matt has laid out his case and I think it has some validity. Don't get me wrong, if he does grab a full fat eMTB, you still won't be able to wipe the smile from his face and there may be a case for it over a lightweight due to auto-immune disease wiping poor Matt out on his unassisted MTB. It depends on how Matt feels about the weight over his current bike.

Neither decision will be wrong!

The weight of the Orbea similar to your thinking and that's what appeals to me as it'll be close to what I currently ride.
So weight doesn't necessarily worry me per say, I don't come across many obstacles to lug it over.. My current bike is a big bike for doing everything weighing in at approx 16.k5g. (Custom XL Alloy Transition Sentinel)
I'm 6'4 and 90-95kg riding weight depending what I take.
My biggest concern with the Orbea is my size and weight, Would I wipe the battery out. I 've noticed alot of folks are putting it in profile 2 - think this offers more power than profile 1 - when they are heavier. This then to me, would shorten battery life and then possibly I'd need an extender which then seems to push me towards full fat.

 

[Wilford Matt]

your post reads like the raison d'etre for emtbs! (full fat).

I have a nagging thought in my mind that you're right

 

[Wilford Matt]

Your over thinking it, just get a normal ebike, turn it up or down as required, be happy.
If you're not carrying it over styles every few yards you won't notice any weight difference.
You will however notice when the half size battery goes flat.

The bikes I'm looking at have the EP8 motor which I understand have a range of customisation through the app. So this could work better

 

[Tonybro]

I've de-tuned the motors on both my bikes, EP8RS and E8000.

 

[Pivot]

Get a full-size eMTB.
On low (34Nm) assistance I get 170km with EP8 and 630Wh

 

[mark.ai]

I went from an E8000 motor (25kg and 500Wh) to a Rise and for me it is perfect.

Going back to the old bike (which I loved), it feels heavy, sluggish, and too much power - I just keep it for going into town now .

 

[Wilford Matt]

Get a full-size eMTB.
On low (34Nm) assistance I get 170km with EP8 and 630Wh

That's very impressive.
Are you working like a boss in the effort department or is that on flat trails or are you just super fit?

 

[Mikerb]

I rode an alogue Cube Stereo until I was 68. I mostly ride natural forest trails/gravity runs. On average 80% of my ride was purgatory in return for 20% adrenaline joy.........and yes it took me several days to recover. 3 years ago I bought a Levo Comp. Now every ride is 100% fun and the climbs, especially technical climbs, are every bit as much of the challenge and fun as the downhills............many of the climbs an analogue bike would just not make it regardless how fit you are. My riding skill and time on the bike has improved significantly over those 3 years. Im 71 now and a good session on the bike can still be a workout because we spend just as much time riding up the gravity runs as riding down them!!
I have no experience on the lighter/half fat emtbs but I would essentially rate them as similar to analogue bikes with some assistance to help with the climbs so suited to younger/ fully fit/uninjured riders . No way they can climb what a full powered EMTB can climb though.
As far as weight is concerned, it is not purely the dead weight of a bike that determines how it feels on the trails in terms of liveliness and manoeurability. A lot has to do with bike set up and what the bike is primarilly designed to do.

My son combines full on lycra roadie/strava long distance riding every day during the week with mtb at weekends when he can. He is super fit and strong. He rode some trails with me.........him on his Cube Stereo analogue and me on my Levo. He ends up bathed in sweat and I usually have to wait for him on the climbs!. I have 2 emtbs ( the Levo and Whyte E180). I started lending him my second bike. He was an emtb sceptic! not now............he has just bought a Levo. On every ride together whether forest trail, longer distance XC or trail centre, he began to understand what EMTBs were all about. He cannot pass a techy climb track now without giving it a go!
Go full fat...anything else is a compromise!

 

[RustyIron]

so wiped out that I struggle to go out or do any activities for a day or 2 due to feeling exhausted.
Anyone experienced this or done this?

Well... sure. If you're never beat for a day or two after a ride, you just go on sissy rides. You can still end up trashed after an eMTB ride, but those times can be less frequent. It sounds as if you've figured that part out, and now you're stuck on which eMTB to get. Frankly, there's no answer to that question. Just like Amish bikes, every single eMTB is deficient in some way.

Take my situation, for instance.
Do I want more battery? Hell yeah!
Do I want a lighter bike? Hell yeah!
Do I want more suspension capability? Hell yeah!
Is there a bike that offers all these things? Sadly, no.

The fact is, there's no bike that offers the best of everything. I have three friends who ride Rises, and they all like them, and they all ride them well.

 

[Doomanic]

Get a full-size eMTB.
On low (34Nm) assistance I get 170km with EP8 and 630Wh

That sounds sooooo boring!

How much climbing?

 

[Pdoz]

.......... a normal mtb to superlight emtb and regretted it?

It'd be interesting to know how many of the big torquers have owned an SL?

For what it's worth, I went normal to full torque giant in 2018 , by 2020 I resented punting around all that extra weight but couldn't find a rise so settled for a levo sl. I kept the normal bike AND full torque , but inflict them on the kids - give me the SL any day.

I honestly don't know if I'd want the extra torque of a rise now , even though on paper it seems like the best compromise. Over my mid week training loop my times are almost identical - a couple of minutes faster on the sl compared with the giant but it has better geometry. Admittedly I lose a couple of bike lengths to full torque bikes out of each uphill corner, but I gain a couple downhill. For long uphill slogs I lust after a rise, but NOT the fat cow - for 90% of the fun , these things are awesome.

Nb I keep referring to torque, not power. There is barely and difference in power output in the real world, just a brief difference in peak power / torque / acceleration for the first few pedal strokes . You pay a price in battery consumption / weight to achieve this.

 

[JoeBlow]

All this talk of weight, battery power, torque and power output is all well and good but for me it was simply that the SL did not give me enough assistance on the uphills. I wanted an EMTB for the assistance so it seemed logical to get my hands on as much of it as I could. Yes it's heavier but the only time I notice is lifting it in and out of the car and I'm managing that fine for now (I'm 73). I tried an SL for a day and found that I didn't get as many rides in as I would on my Orbea Wild. a) because I was more tired and b) I ran out of battery. I've never run out of battery on my Orbea bike. Better riders than me may notice some handling differences but my 23kg bike suits me fine.

Al

 

[Shjay]

I went from a normal bike to an E-Sommet which had the E7000 motor 70nm so not full full fat loved the bike & rarely used turbo, I now have a Rise I use profile 1 with non ebike mates or on my own & profile 2 if ride with other ebikes, it’s a very nimble bike, although the Sommet wasn’t heavy under 22kg the Rise is amazing & I am 93kg kitted up & have no issues with range you do have to keep cadence around 70-90 to get best from motor

 

[Wilford Matt]

So I don't think there's a firm direction.
It seems to me it boils down to what trails/riding you do and can you deal/cope with the weight of a full fat compared to light version.
Thanks for your replies

 

[Trail Blazer]

I did after c19 this spring. My heart raced but wheels where not moving. Got the Rise M10 for getting into shape again. Mostly riding XC and trail riding. I also have the Turbo Levo Gen 3 but it’s for heavy duty mountaineering and enduro riding. When I’m back to my ideal weight again I will buy a lightweight XC Trail like the Ibis Ripley for having fun.

 

[Mikerb]

It'd be interesting to know how many of the big torquers have owned an SL?

For what it's worth, I went normal to full torque giant in 2018 , by 2020 I resented punting around all that extra weight but couldn't find a rise so settled for a levo sl. I kept the normal bike AND full torque , but inflict them on the kids - give me the SL any day.

I honestly don't know if I'd want the extra torque of a rise now , even though on paper it seems like the best compromise. Over my mid week training loop my times are almost identical - a couple of minutes faster on the sl compared with the giant but it has better geometry. Admittedly I lose a couple of bike lengths to full torque bikes out of each uphill corner, but I gain a couple downhill. For long uphill slogs I lust after a rise, but NOT the fat cow - for 90% of the fun , these things are awesome.

Nb I keep referring to torque, not power. There is barely and difference in power output in the real world, just a brief difference in peak power / torque / acceleration for the first few pedal strokes . You pay a price in battery consumption / weight to achieve this.

and you clearly describe what type of rider you are.............it would not even occur to me to have a training run or to time a ride! Training for what? I just ride for fun....and I would guess the OP is not a racer.....probably an older fellow like me just happy to be out on the trails as if I was 30 years younger

 

[Pivot]

That sounds sooooo boring!

How much climbing?

Yea, its boring, especially with the motor off

 

[Pivot]

That's very impressive.
Are you working like a boss in the effort department or is that on flat trails or are you just super fit?

No boss here, but I do switch the motor off on the flat terrain

 

[Mr President]

I almost bought a Levo SL, but could not get my head around the extra cost versus spec for a smaller battery and motor versus the full-fat Whyte E160 I finally purchased. I feared I'd be riding around thinking I'd been ripped off all the time. It's not like EMTBs aren't very pricey already for what they are.

Rode a friends Kenovo SL around the car park recently and did like the feel of it, but still expensive for what it is.

I am happy with the full fat bike and often ride it to the limit of the endurance and occasionally a bit beyond and I won't deny there are times I'd love a lighter bike, but as Rustyiron says, there will always be a compromise.

 

[Doug Stampfer]

I'm loving these....









clickbait thread titles.

 

[Mteam]

I demo'd a levo sl recently, I normally ride an orbea wild fs.

In short I thought the sl was rubbish, I wondering whether it could be the best of both worlds (emtb and normal mtb), but it just felt like the worst of both worlds , it was still heavy compared to a normal bike, and slow compared to an ebike.

However I can see that if you've never been on a full fat bike and all you've ridden is normal mtb, then you would think the sl was great.

I suspect the orbea rise could well be a completely different proposition though with nearly the same torque as a full fat ebike,but weighing 4kg less.

 

[Mcharza]

I demo'd a levo sl recently, I normally ride an orbea wild fs.

In short I thought the sl was rubbish, I wondering whether it could be the best of both worlds (emtb and normal mtb), but it just felt like the worst of both worlds , it was still heavy compared to a normal bike, and slow compared to an ebike.

However I can see that if you've never been on a full fat bike and all you've ridden is normal mtb, then you would think the sl was great.

I suspect the orbea rise could well be a completely different proposition though with nearly the same torque as a full fat ebike,but weighing 4kg less.

I don't get it. You first say that Levo SL is heavy and right after that Rise is light. They are about the same weight. Both are weighting about 4-5 kg less than full fat.
Only different is that Rise has more torque.

 

[Mteam]

I don't get it. You first say that Levo SL is heavy and right after that Rise is light. They are about the same weight. Both are weighting about 4-5 kg less than full fat.
Only different is that Rise has more torque.

I didn't say the rise was light, it is as you say similar to an sl in weight, however on paper it has a lot more torque than an sl which should translate to more uphill speed for a given amount of rider input.


Haven't ridden the rise, so have no idea how it really rides, but the sl is heavier than a normal bike and is almost just as slow as a normal bike up any given hill.id rather just ride a normal bike.

Basically it felt like the additional power an sl provides over a normal bike was not worth the weight penalty.

Wheras with a full fat ebike I feel the additional power is worth the significant weight penalty.



I imagine a rise (having 60nm torque vs 35nm of the sl) whilst being just as heavy as an sl, would be much faster than a normal bike up hill , ie nearly as fast as a full fat ebike up a hill. So the rise might be worth the weight penalty,whereas the sl isn't.


Sl - not enough power/torque to be worth the moderate weight penalty

Full fat - enough power torque to be worth the significant weight penalty. Can't really speak about every single full fat bike being worth the weight penalty as I've only really ridden the lighter examples and I know some are really heavy, but you get the gist...

Rise - enough power/torque to be worth the moderate weight penalty?? Probably.....

Each to their own and all that, but the specialised sl bikes just seem pointless to me. Maybe I would feel the rise would also be pointless, dunno, not ridden one, but on paper it looks a much better proposition than an sl.

 

[mtb-steve]

I have sarcoidosis and when it's active it's like someone took half my leg muscles away, I've no idea why as it effects my lymph system.
Anyway for me a full fat emtb is better, I use it in eco most of the time but then pop it up into tour or emtb if I'm feeling a bit shit.

Steve

 

[Wilford Matt]

So with all the replies to my questions, queries and for opinions and experiences. I feel I have a good basis to go to local shop and talk to them see what they say and ask questions.
In my mind I know which 2 bikes I like for where and what I ride. A super light and a full fat. So will talk to LBS and see if my mind is swayed either way or if it sends my head in a spin.
Thanks again to all that replied

 

[Bosko]

You will adapt to whatever bike you ride - I would rather have extra power that I don't use or need most of the time. I'm in trail mode 80 - 90 % of the time, glad to have it when I need it, or sometimes it's just fun to have that extra acceleration, even on easy flow trails, flats, or if you are pressed for time. My Heckler seemed pretty big when I started riding it, 46ish lbs, partly due to geo, it does well on technical climbs and switchbacks, the only thing holding it back is the rider.