Anyone fitted a DVO Topaz shock to a Jam2?

[steve_sordy]

I have a size large Focus Jam2 9.6 NINE with a Rockshox Deluxe Debonair 210x55 shock. I am looking at replacing it with the DVO Topaz T3 shock. The problem is the piggyback oil reservoir in that it may hit the TEC pac battery. There are no dimensions of the Topaz to be had anywhere that I can find. The key dimension is from the centreline of the mounting bolts out to the leading lower edge of the piggyback.

I have read the contents of the link below. It doesn't mention the Topaz but another piggy back shock.

Focus jam2 shock up grades that fit with tecpack - EMTB Forums

A Topaz dealer told me today that the piggybacks are big and have been known to cause problems. The link does suggest that if all else fails you can drill some extra mounting holes in the rail to which you fasten the TEC pac. This moves the Tec pac up the downtube and gives extra clearance. I will do that if it will make the difference, but I need to know that before I buy the Topaz.

Has anyone fitted a Topaz to their Jam2, what size was your bike?

If anyone has a Topaz (irrespective of what bike it's fitted to), would you be good enough to provide the measurement I'm looking for please? The key dimension is from the centreline of the mounting bolts out to the leading lower edge of the piggyback.

Thanks in advance.

 

[steve_sordy]

47 views and no response, so it must be that nobody out there has tried this shock on this bike.

I emailed DVO on Sat am and a very helpful guy called Geoff replied to me on Saturday afternoon. He promised to reply on Monday with what I needed. Today I received a .pdf file of the external dimensions of the standard and trunnion mount versions.

I have been unable to find this file on the internet, so I assume that DVO do not publish it. If anyone needs a copy of this, send me a message and we can exchange email addresses and I can send you a file copy.

Just to give you an overview of the standard version:
The horizontal dimension from the mount centreline to the outside edge of the piggybank reservoir is 63.0mm.
The vertical dimension from the top mount centreline to the bottom of the piggyback reservoir is 99.85mm.
Those dimension are common to all sizes of the standard mount shock.

When I check it out and make a decision on whether it will fit my bike or not, I will post here.

By the way the DVO Topaz T3 is out of stock everywhere on most popular sizes (including the size I want). Next delivery to the UK is mid to late December.

 

[Gspot]

https://www.emtbforums.com/community/attachments/img_5451-jpg.37361/

 

[sdcoffeeroaster]

https://www.emtbforums.com/community/attachments/img_5451-jpg.37361/

Yes I had a dvo for a while and liked it but it did just interfere with mt diy tech pack. I probably should have kept it but ended up selling it a few months ago . I did get the fox dps shock to work better with a larger volume spacer.

 

[d4voh]

Yes I had a dvo for a while and liked it but it did just interfere with mt diy tech pack. I probably should have kept it but ended up selling it a few months ago . I did get the fox dps shock to work better with a larger volume spacer.

May I ask your weight and what size spacer worked for you?

I've gone one size up from the standard

 

[sdcoffeeroaster]

May I ask your weight and what size spacer worked for you?

I've gone one size up from the standard

2 volume and 1-3 neg volume spacers. I never did get it to use all the travel even with no spacers which seems more appropriate for my weight of 150 lbs. DVO said I needed more spacers for better mid-stroke support, hence the positive volume spacers. I think I used about 140-150 psi but neve did get it sorted out. The negative spacers only affect the first 30% of the travel.

It turns out the original Fox DPS shock has 2 negative volume spacer, reddish rubber rings. Mine also had the smallest positive volume spacer from the factory. And even with my weight I increased the positive volume space up 2 addition sizes. I know this doesn't make sense but after discussing this with the suspension expert at DVO, it makes sense even with the Fox DPS. I think like the DVO that's what the focus FOLD suspension needs to not be using up way over half of the travel with normal riding. It feels more supportive this way even with my light weight and I'm still running 150 psi with some travel left for a really big hit.

 

[valex_1974]

hi, my ex topaz air:

 

[steve_sordy]

@valex_1974 I am astonished at myself, but I had never thought of mounting the shock upside down! Top marks to you!

I have no idea if that will be the breakthrough or not, but it's another option. I'm waiting until my bike is mucky enough to be worth cleaning. I'll fit the TEC pack, Then I'll do the measuring and let some air out my existing shock so that I can articulate the rear triangle to see what clearance I have on full compression.

Is that an IBIS bike? I had heard that IBIS were fitting DVO kit as OE, which would account for the DVO decals being the right way up.

What do you think about the Topaz?

Edit: I've just had another look at your pic, and it's a Focus isn't it? I see that you don't have the TEC pack mounting bar, just the bottle cage. Do you have a TEC pack?

 

[valex_1974]

Hi dear, Sorry for my bad english.... I don't have a tec battery, but i think that it's fantastic shock it's very similar to a coil shock! Very good, i have Sam2 with 230*65 , regards!

 

[steve_sordy]

@ART posted this in another thread (many thanks ART). He said that his bike is a Large (like mine) and that all he had to do was to trim the compression knob. I reckon that if I mounted the shock upside down, I wouldn't even have to do that. Confidence inspiring. All I have to do now is to actually buy one!

 

[Pascal Funk]

In centimétres.....

 

[steve_sordy]

@Pascal Funk Thanks for the pic. That suggests that the dimension is 80mm from back of shock body to front of piggyback body. Which model is that shock? Wondering if it is an earlier one?

Problem is I have a copy of the latest DVO drawing for the current Topaz T3 shock that says it is 87.85mm. I have not found any other way of giving you a copy other than taking a pic and posting it here:

I also have the trunnion mount dimensions as well, if anyone wants it.
If anyone wants a proper file copy of either, contact me privately with your email address and I'll send it to you

 

[Pascal Funk]

Topaz T3 de 2019 (From Germany)
205x60 on Trek Powerfly

 

[steve_sordy]

I finally got around to measuring up the current set up and examining the detail drawing of the Topaz, to try and work out if it will fit.

The concern is only when the TEC pack is fitted. Will its piggyback reservoir strike the TEC pack on my size Large Focus Jam2

On the current Rockshox Deluxe R Debonair shock (210x55), I measured the distance from the centreline of the upper shock mounting to the front of the rebound dial (34mm).

I fitted the TEC pack and measured the gap between the front of the rebound dial and the face of the TEC pack at its closest point. I had to let a lot of air from the shock so that I could compress the suspension to see where the closest point was. For interest, the dial moves up and down in a shallow outward curve that appears to be almost parallel to the rearward face of the TEC pack. The closest gap was 25mm.

So, from the centreline of the shock to the rearward face of the TEC pack is 59mm.

Referring to the dimensioned drawing of the Topaz T3 I got from DVO, the distance from the shock centreline to the outer face of the piggyback reservoir is 63mm. So the Topaz will foul by 4mm. It was difficult to measure accurately, but I will not be in error by more then 1mm.

How to make it fit?

Alternative 1 – Move the TEC pack

The TEC pack fits onto a rail that is bolted to the frame and it has two sets of bolt holes. One set is marked for the Jam2 and the Bold, the other set is for the Sam2. Using the Sam2 bolt holes moves the TEC pack up the frame, raising the centre of gravity, but crucially allowing to the larger piggyback shock on the Sam2 and its larger range of movement from the 170mm travel rather than the 150mm of the Jam2.

With the TEC pack in the upper position, the cable that connects to the frame still fits and works, but it’s a tight squeeze. The new measurement from the current shock to the rearward face of the TEC pack is now 74mm. That will give 11mm of clearance with the Topaz.

The above pic was posted by @ART and it looks as though the TEC pack has already been moved upwards, note the tight gap where the right hand end of the cable has to be folded under to meet the connector in the top of the TEC pack. It only just fits!

Alternative 2 - Mount the Topaz upside down

This looks eminently feasible (see below) and without having to move the TEC pack to the Sam2 position on the rail. This is something that I will try once I get my hands on the Topaz. I believe it is preferable to the alternative with its raised CofG and the cramped cable position.

The pic below was posted by @valex_1974 and is of a Sam2. The suspension design for the Sam2 and the Jam2 is very similar indeed, so if it works on the Sam2 it should work on the Jam2. We’ll see.

When I get my hands on a Topaz (mid-late Dec’20), I will try the alternatives and let you know how it goes.

 

[steve_sordy]

Update: "When I get my hands on a Topaz (mid-late Dec'20)...."

Now 16th Apr'21 and I'm still waiting!!!!
DVO send to a UK agent every two months Dec, Feb, Apr, .....
I discovered that when the shock of the right size didn't appear in Dec'20, so I have been ringing the retailer every two months for an update. The deliveries to the UK came and went. Today I got some good news/bad news from the retailer.
The good news is that DVO has given a delivery date!
The bad news is that it is in July!

As I wrote this it occurred to me that July is an odd numbered month, so does that mean a July shipment from DVO in USA and therefore I won't get it until August? Or are they slipping in an extra shipment somewhere?

Patience, Steve, there is nothing I can do to speed it up.

 

[sdcoffeeroaster]

Update: "When I get my hands on a Topaz (mid-late Dec'20)...."

Now 16th Apr'21 and I'm still waiting!!!!
DVO send to a UK agent every two months Dec, Feb, Apr, .....
I discovered that when the shock of the right size didn't appear in Dec'20, so I have been ringing the retailer every two months for an update. The deliveries to the UK came and went. Today I got some good news/bad news from the retailer.
The good news is that DVO has given a delivery date!
The bad news is that it is in July!

As I wrote this it occurred to me that July is an odd numbered month, so does that mean a July shipment from DVO in USA and therefore I won't get it until August? Or are they slipping in an extra shipment somewhere?

Patience, Steve, there is nothing I can do to speed it up.

And I had one that I bought on sale for $375. and stupidly sold it for $300. here. I have another one on order and I'm told maybe at the end of the month. should I order two of them, lol? I sold it because of the range extender I was building but now I'm pretty sure I can make it fit. Along with my Lyrik Ultimate it should lead to the best possible suspension for my 2018 jam2

 

[steve_sordy]

And I had one that I bought on sale for $375. and stupidly sold it for $300. here. I have another one on order and I'm told maybe at the end of the month. should I order two of them, lol? I sold it because of the range extender I was building but now I'm pretty sure I can make it fit. Along with my Lyrik Ultimate it should lead to the best possible suspension for my 2018 jam2

{Jealous face}

 

[Norange]

Any potential to use this one with a set of offset bushings? By my logic, you might then be closer to having clearance for the tec pack

eBay

 

[steve_sordy]

Any potential to use this one with a set of offset bushings? By my logic, you might then be closer to having clearance for the tec pack

eBay

The shock looks OK, the user has 350 trades with 100% feedback. Hmmm.
My shock requirement is 210x55. This one is 200x57.
I have no knowledge on this to draw upon and I would not normally compromise on the eye2eye and stroke dimensions. How would I make a shock that is too short and with a longer stroke actually work for me?

 

[sdcoffeeroaster]

The shock looks OK, the user has 350 trades with 100% feedback. Hmmm.
My shock requirement is 210x55. This one is 200x57.
I have no knowledge on this to draw upon and I would not normally compromise on the eye2eye and stroke dimensions. How would I make a shock that is too short and with a longer stroke actually work for me?

Yeah that 10mm is a lot to try to allow for and I'd wait to install the right size. 57mm doesn't sound too bad to me but without bolting it up and checking it thru it's range of motion who can say what the consequences would be? It's like you are starting out at an extra 10mm compression but then the travel from there is another 12mm (10+2) over stock and that's about 3X at the rear wheel or 36mm! I've always wondered if 210mmX57mm would work and give us another 6mm of travel or so. My 2018 is 140mm at the rear.

 

[Norange]

"How would I make a shock that is too short and with a longer stroke actually work for me?"

Offset bushes mean you can effectively change the e2e length. Some people use this to use the same e2e shock but effectively reduce the length in the frame. But what you'd be doing is *increasing* the effective e2e of the shock, by running the offset to the inside rather than the outside. Not sure exactly what offset per bush you can obtain, you could check with Offset Bushings.
Probably not quite enough, just felt sorry for you not getting a shock for 7M and thought it might be worth a shout.

 

[Norange]

In stock in Germany, might be worth seeing if they would ship to UK?
Here

Also, CRC has a 210x50mm in stock. According to the link below, it *might* be possible to change stroke from 50 to 55mm by removing the nylon spacer. Worth a call to DVO to check this? You'd need to strip the shock to do this, or get someone else to if you were not comfortable.

See pic 3-4 for nylon spacer in airshaft

 

[steve_sordy]

In stock in Germany, might be worth seeing if they would ship to UK?
Here

Also, CRC has a 210x50mm in stock. According to the link below, it *might* be possible to change stroke from 50 to 55mm by removing the nylon spacer. Worth a call to DVO to check this? You'd need to strip the shock to do this, or get someone else to if you were not comfortable.

See pic 3-4 for nylon spacer in airshaft

Thanks for that @Norange
1st point: They have them in stock but will not ship to the UK (gutted face).
2nd point: I have messaged DVO about the nylon spacer and asked for a recco.

 

[steve_sordy]

I have news!
I have exchanged emails with Geoff at DVO (the guy that sent me the dimensioned drawing of the Topaz).
He told me that DVO make all shocks with a certain eye2eye dimension (210 in my case) in the largest stroke (55 in my case) and then deliver shorter stokes by adding a nylon “travel spacer”. It dramatically reduces the number of items they make as standard and they then customise for travel length by adding a cheap nylon spacer.
I don’t know if that is what other shock manufacturers do, but it’s very clever. Bravo!

The upshot of that is that I can buy any 210 eye2eye DVO Topaz shock and then remove the nylon travel spacer to get my desired 210x55. He confirmed by email this exact point. He told me it was super easy to do and sent me a few pictures.

So this morning I bought a 210x50 Topaz T3 and I will get it tomorrow!! Then I cancelled the shock that had been on order with Evolution Cycles since early Jan'21. (Nice people by the way, but they did not know about the nylon spacer).

If I had known all this before, it might have saved me months of waiting. Ah well, every day is a learning day!

EDIT: Now I look at the pics in more detail, I can't see a 5mm travel spacer, so I have asked DVO for more detail.

 

[Norange]

Good News! I'd suggest that it's the grey piece he's holding. The recess in it looks to fit around the black dome at bottom left. So in the bottom two pics, the smaller diameter top section of the grey spacer would be 5 mm deep - so having this in place on the shaft weould reduce stroke by 5mm. to remove, looks like you lift it off the dome and then it just slides off?

 

[Tooks]

I have news!
I have exchanged emails with Geoff at DVO (the guy that sent me the dimensioned drawing of the Topaz).
He told me that DVO make all shocks with a certain eye2eye dimension (210 in my case) in the largest stroke (55 in my case) and then deliver shorter stokes by adding a nylon “travel spacer”. It dramatically reduces the number of items they make as standard and they then customise for travel length by adding a cheap nylon spacer.
I don’t know if that is what other shock manufacturers do, but it’s very clever. Bravo!

The upshot of that is that I can buy any 210 eye2eye DVO Topaz shock and then remove the nylon travel spacer to get my desired 210x55. He confirmed by email this exact point. He told me it was super easy to do and sent me a few pictures.

View attachment 59479

So this morning I bought a 210x50 Topaz T3 and I will get it tomorrow!! Then I cancelled the shock that had been on order with Evolution Cycles since early Jan'21. (Nice people by the way, but they did not know about the nylon spacer).

If I had known all this before, it might have saved me months of waiting. Ah well, every day is a learning day!

EDIT: Now I look at the pics in more detail, I can't see a 5mm travel spacer, so I have asked DVO for more detail.

The grey bit looks more like a volume spacer, and the alloy bit in the pictures doesn’t look like it comes off?

Perhaps the nylon spacer has to come out if you use a volume spacer which is why it isn’t shown?

 

[Norange]

Volume spacers on the Topaz clip onto the outside of the air can. They're white, and fitted as below:

 

[Tooks]

Volume spacers on the Topaz clip onto the outside of the air can. They're white, and fitted as below:

Thanks, I’m a Fox guy and that grey bit looked like a volume spacer!

Edit: Scratch my question, I can see from reading a review that DVO 50mm stroke shocks come with a tan coloured spacer that you can remove to make them 55mm.

I’m tempted myself now!

 

[Norange]

Thanks, I’m a Fox guy and that grey bit looked like a volume spacer!

So, is that grey bit the item you remove to increase the stroke by 5mm?

I reckon so - those pics are from DVO, who I've personally found to be very helpful. Shame that the UK disty wasn't aware of this, since Steve's been waiting so long

 

[sdcoffeeroaster]

Great news Steve! Yes that grey part should be the travel spacer even though it looks like the Fox volume spacer. Let me know how you like the DVO when you get it tuned up. The white thin volume spacers are easy to swap out. Just be careful to not damage the o-ring that holds the housing in place when sliding it down to access the volume spacers.