Anyone else follow the developments of future battery technology?

[Al Boneta]

One me battery technology I am super excited about are these new Lithium Polymer solid state batteries
The are safer, lighter and cheaper to produce

https://futurism.com/massachusetts-solid-state-battery-company

https://vimeo.com/215524

 

[OldBean]

I too am interested in battery development .......A friend works for Bosche and tells me that there is a limit to the capacity power of current technology due to the dangerous nature of the build......they are very explosive and getting close to “bomb” power.
Lets hope this new development works.
There have been quite a lot of scams about battery development . some years ago the major motor manufacturers were duped out of millions on the promise of “battery utopia”
We all need this to suceed.
Have fun.

 

[Donnie797]

solid state is the next big leap in battery technology.
Another interesting approach is the "Flow-Battery", but for the bikes i would say give me the solid state please

 

[Mabman]

There has been talk of new technology for years and it is an ongoing conversation that hasn't yet brought forth any tech yet to compete with LiMn etc.. I'm more about following the current technology that is applicable today. The switch to 2170 cells is going to be about as good as it gets for awhile and they are better overall performers than the 18650 cells so at least there's that.

 

[MattyB]

I am an experienced RC pilot with 15+ years of flying electric aircraft behind me. Unfortunately Mabman is right; if you are waiting for a really significant leap battery tech that could be a long time away. Getting a battery technology that beats the current best in terms of energy density, power density and cycle life and is also safe for use in a hostile environment like mountain bikes is very hard.

History is littered with promising battery tech that failed in one way or the other; in reality the last major breakthrough was lipos 20 odd years ago. Hopefully the clever Solicon Valley bods at Tesla will prove us wrong with their billions in investment, but I am not holding my breath for a big leap quickly.

 

[Mabman]

Actually Tesla is building 2170 batteries at the Giga Factory. They introduced them in the Model 3 and are refitting their other models to use them. Not to say he doesn't have a team of engineers looking at other options.

 

[knut7]

What does the near term future hold for ebike batteries? Are we seeing 4Ah+ 18650 cells to acheive 600Wh+ with 40 cells? Or will we see a shift to 2170 within a year or two?

 

[Donnie797]

Solid state batteries will come, but they are not ready for the market too soon. The Fraunhofer Insitute wants to present a first functional solid cell in 2019. Toyota has annoucned to roll them out with their e-cars in 2025. VW has invested big money into that technology as well. So i guess for the next couple of years we have to stick with the known cell-technology and hope for increased cell density.

 

[knut7]

Yeah, there's definitely a few years left of the silicone lithium batteries. In the near future I'm hoping to see 10s3p battery configs with 4200mAh+ 18650 cells, unless everyone moves to the 2170 format...

 

[Sherman]

No, I stopped when I realized the new break thrus never materialize. I'm only interested what's available NOW.

 

[Mabman]

Yeah, there's definitely a few years left of the silicone lithium batteries. In the near future I'm hoping to see 10s3p battery configs with 4200mAh+ 18650 cells, unless everyone moves to the 2170 format...

As there are already 5000mAh 2170 cells available and being put on eBikes, as per the new BH bikes and I also suspect other 2019 higher end models that are all the sudden advertising more power, it is pretty much assured that format will make your dream of a 10s3p battery available on next years model and all brands will follow suit. Unfortunately due to their larger size their won't be compatibility with the 18650 battery dock and a new bike will be in order. And we all know the bike industry likes to sell new bikes.....

While the manufacturers will probably sell 2170 at a premium at first in actuality they are not that much more money per cell than an 18650. Development cost to redesign the bike around it due to the fashion of integrating them into the down tube is worth something but don't let them fool you into thinking they are worth way more as the actual construction of the battery is the same process and shouldn't cost any more than it does now.

The 13s3p 5a 2170 cell battery I have has 39 cells and is 720wh btw, its in the bag.

 

[knut7]

I was thinking 10s3p with 18650s. Using 4250mAh cells, that's a 460Wh battery. Just ~20Wh less than the Bosch 500 pack. And I assume using 25% less cells should take the weight down by about 500gr, to about 2kg.

Using 5Ah 2170 cells in 10s3p is 540Wh. There may not be much of a weight saving compared to the Bosch 500 for all I know.

 

[Mabman]

Put that way it certainly looks like the 2170 cells, even using 30 over 40, would come out heavier as the individual cells weigh 65.8g and add in the extra weight for the holders, if used, over the 36.2g weight of a 4250mAh cell. The overall performance of the battery would be higher in regards to discharge rate, 14A/, and be able to charge at 7A.

These figures are more valuable to me than weight at this time, but extended range is and due to less overall strain on the cells while in use in the same power range so better wh/mi will result.