Any experience with the Luna Z-1 Enduro?

[Swiftdaddy]

After pre-ordering a Norco Range VLT I decided to cancel it. It's just a lot of money to spend and I can't justify spending $7k on a bike. So that let me to thinking about just buying a Bafang kit and slapping it on a hard tail. I saw Luna cycles mentioned a lot selling these kits. Browsing their website, I then saw they actually offer a pre-built full on emtb - The Luna Z-1 Enduro, and also another called the X2 Enduro. Both at a very impressive price and carbon. Mind you I know this is probably just rebranded Chinese carbon but there is a 2 year warranty on the frame which is standard for most bikes, only 6 months on the motor but these can be found easily and Bafang has a good rep. Does not have top tier components but it is "cheap" enough that they can be easily swapped as needed. But that motor though holy crap it has power! 160nm of torque.. Battery is 850WH which IMO is perfect.

So before I pull the trigger, any reason I shouldn't? Anybody have experience with these bikes? I hear a lot of good things about the company itself so I am not too worried about customer service issues plus I am relatively local to the shop.

Link to bike:

Z1 Enduro EBIKE

One of the best fast electric bikes on the market for an incredible price. 2000 watt speed machine.

lunacycle.com

 

[Mabman]

I have had one since December and without going into all the details if I had it to do again I would pass. But after finally getting it dialed in I am happy enough with it but it has taken a good amount of biking off and more $$ invested.

Low points are that advertised 840wh battery in reality only provides about 780wh's of useable power due to funky high LVC issues. 25 mile battery at best due to consistent high 20 wh/mi consumption. Due to stock case size this cannot be expanded without adding another battery.

160nm torque value while fun/fast eats drive trains at an astounding rate even with careful shifting. Bicycle drives just aren't made to withstand that type of abuse. Bike will climb walls.

Bike is heavy @ 64 or so lbs. but does handle it well due to motor power and fairly decent geo until you have to load it over a fence/tree etc..

I was really after the M600 motored bike but turned off by the CanBus issues that Bafang has implemented poorly. Wasn't interested in the LUNA ludicrous option which still hasn't been shown to me to offer the amount of tuning that the UART motors have and most definitely need for mtb use.

Also check out the DengFu E22 thread on here as it is the same frame.

 

[Swiftdaddy]

I have had one since December and without going into all the details if I had it to do again I would pass. But after finally getting it dialed in I am happy enough with it but it has taken a good amount of biking off and more $$ invested.

Low points are that advertised 840wh battery in reality only provides about 780wh's of useable power due to funky high LVC issues. 25 mile battery at best due to consistent high 20 wh/mi consumption. Due to stock case size this cannot be expanded without adding another battery.

160nm torque value while fun/fast eats drive trains at an astounding rate even with careful shifting. Bicycle drives just aren't made to withstand that type of abuse. Bike will climb walls.

Bike is heavy @ 64 or so lbs. but does handle it well due to motor power and fairly decent geo until you have to load it over a fence/tree etc..

I was really after the M600 motored bike but turned off by the CanBus issues that Bafang has implemented poorly. Wasn't interested in the LUNA ludicrous option which still hasn't been shown to me to offer the amount of tuning that the UART motors have and most definitely need for mtb use.

Also check out the DengFu E22 thread on here as it is the same frame.

Thanks for the reply. Ya I figured it to be a rebranded Chinese frame. Do you find yourself using the whole battery on your rides? Are you actually doing 25 miles per ride? And ya I read about how it chews through chains. We’re you able to get a tougher one that lasts?

I think this frame is the same one Rob built up correct? I’m gonna think about it. My shop actually agreed to selling me the Norco I mentioned at a steep discount. Like $1500 off MSRP since they wouldn’t allow me a refund. Debating on keeping the Norco idk.. decisions

 

[Mabman]

90% of my rides are in the 20 mile range with a couple to three thou elevation. I could barely do those reliably on the stock battery so I was being generous with the 25 mile figure actually. I got some 21700 cell batteries, one 48V 15ah and one 52v 15ah (all that would stuff in the stock casing) with a 40A BMS and although both have less wh's they provide just as much range with better power, especially at lower voltage near the LVC. The 52v is the go to daily battery though because it has some good energy out of the gate that I use to get over the pavement to the trailheads.

LUNA swung a deal with DengFu for exclusive rights to E10, like Rob's, and E22 frames for North America. But they are not exactly the same frames and the E22 thread has more on that cause @Neeko DeVinchi has both. They are available in other markets no problem.

If you have the bux as hard as it is to stomach the Norco would be a better bet perhaps and backed by a shop is a plus and would need less fiddling to make right probably. The whole UART tuning thing can be a time suck cause there is not much support on how to achieve the best tune and the ones on YouTube I found didn't work well without blending them and finally getting it right.

 

[Neeko DeVinchi]

Hi @Swiftdaddy,
I've heard good things about the new Norco range of emtbs. Especially with the option to run a 900wh battery. If you can wrangle a Norco Range VLT for a decent price with a high capacity battery, I'd jump on it
Failing that, I'll leave a link to the E22 thread for you to peruse.

Dengfu E22 Frame Thread

Decided to pick up one of these frames sets after receiving many enquiries through Instagram, EMTB Forums, EBR, etc. Hopefully, this thread will be of use to anyone who is considering buying/building up one. FULL DISCLAIMER It was through Carbon Cycles on Ebay which I picked one up for the...

www.emtbforums.com

Take it easy

 

[Ford Prefect]

After pre-ordering a Norco Range VLT I decided to cancel it. It's just a lot of money to spend and I can't justify spending $7k on a bike. ... buying a Bafang kit and slapping it on a hard tail ... Luna Z-1 Enduro, and also another called the X2 Enduro. ... Bafang has a good rep. ... But that motor though holy crap it has power! 160nm of torque.. Battery is 850WH which IMO is perfect.

So before I pull the trigger, any reason I shouldn't?

Based only on specs & user reports, I believe you'd be quite pleased with the Norco if you got it at a good price.

In my experience with the Bafang m620, I think it's the best ebike motor currently available, by several key measures. I don't think the downsides outweigh its benefits, but they are worth considering:

• Bafang motor controllers rely entirely upon the bike builder, to assign working torque sensing values & to set every value that could conceivably relate to rider output, gear ratio(s), & response levels within each speed range. They can be optimized to suit a very wide variety of builds, but they need to be calibrated by someone, to have any semblance of actual torque sensing; much less the fine control via pedal input, seen on ≥3rd gen Bosch ebike motors.
• The weight of the motor core itself is less problematic than the structural framing required to support it without undue twisting, around the chainline. Frames designed for the m620 tend to be extreme heavyweights, & carbon is frankly an arguable advantage at best, in such a case. (Titanium is arguably safer & definitely more recyclable.) By the time a largeish battery, head tube, heavy duty EMtB fork, rear drivetrain, & probably a big rider, are loaded on, that frame needs to be burly, to withstand the extreme loads it'll be under. For an m620 powered ebike, 48 pounds is featherweight territory; probably best built as a road bike. 60 pound builds are typical, & our Frey AM1000 v5 with hefty rear rack, headlight, brake light, & metal fender, weighs 80 pounds before we put anything else on it. (It came with such capable components though, that I don't care.) m620 ebike frames are heavy.
• The m620 is not super efficient at low assist levels; I personally spent about two dozen rides, making progressively finer tweaks to the configuration, before the six 'Eco' PAS modes (& their less-utilized 'Sport' counterparts) felt sane & responsive at all speeds, for our riding.

After all that, I also experience the above cited ~20 Watt-hours used per mile, at mild assist levels (≤500 Watts of assist). At higher assist levels (up to 1440 W), a 1008 Wh battery is drained in less than an hour... but with good low-pressure 2.8 inch tires, & a 42 tooth chainring, pulling a 40-tooth-to-11-tooth cassette, I can also turn the ebike off & ride level sections using 0 Wh of battery per mile, without difficulty.

I personally believe that more battery is better; for my excessively tall self, that meant 18650 cells making 48V @ 21Ah are adequate, but 21700 cells making 52V @ 17.5Ah, would surely be better for most use cases.

I favor drop-in slot loading battery casings similar to the Reention 'Dorado', as their design can be spread horizontally like a muffin-top, above the slot, to accommodate larger capacities. There are lots of options for larger 'shark' & 'dorado' style packs, on the same connectors; "integrated" battery slots tend to offer less room for switching to a bigger battery in the future...

As an excessively tall rider (who's not into doing sweet jumps), I wouldn't trade the m620 for any other ebike motor I've heard of. It's an adequate match for my own output & once calibrated it's very responsive & makes tricky sections a breeze.

For anyone sized closer to average, other ebike motors can be plenty, & there's less advantage to the m620. I still hesitate to call any motor+controller I've experienced, "better", though... Once tuned, it's very good...

As with manual bicycles though, ebike quality is largely about the components; & although the motor+controller is a huge factor in that, it's far from the only crucial factor. That Norco has decent components & that counts for a lot. Similarly, Luna & Frey & other builders using the m620, have to offer decent components, to stay competitive with the big brand ebikes arriving on the market. Get good brakes, & good tires, with it, no matter what else you might swap.

 

[Swiftdaddy]

Hi @Swiftdaddy,
I've heard good things about the new Norco range of emtbs. Especially with the option to run a 900wh battery. If you can wrangle a Norco Range VLT for a decent price with a high capacity battery, I'd jump on it
Failing that, I'll leave a link to the E22 thread for you to peruse.

Dengfu E22 Frame Thread

Decided to pick up one of these frames sets after receiving many enquiries through Instagram, EMTB Forums, EBR, etc. Hopefully, this thread will be of use to anyone who is considering buying/building up one. FULL DISCLAIMER It was through Carbon Cycles on Ebay which I picked one up for the...

www.emtbforums.com

Take it easy

Hey thank you! I had already been looking at this thread when I figured out it was the same frame. I appreciate all the thorough details you provided! i honestly prefer the more powerful motor. It’s double the torque of the ep8 tho I guess my only concern would be running out of battery.

As far as the Luna goes, did you find it cheaper to just order the Dengfu frame and build it up from scratch? I’ll have to buy all the parts tho it seems like I could maybe end up cheaper but they’ll be pretty close in price. I’ll likely be able to afford slightly better components tho. I’ll have to do a cost analysis. Also the angled headSet was a great idea. I was turned off by the steepish head angle. I am thinking about maybe throwing a 29” up front..

 

[Neeko DeVinchi]

Hey thank you! I had already been looking at this thread when I figured out it was the same frame. I appreciate all the thorough details you provided! i honestly prefer the more powerful motor. It’s double the torque of the ep8 tho I guess my only concern would be running out of battery.

As far as the Luna goes, did you find it cheaper to just order the Dengfu frame and build it up from scratch? I’ll have to buy all the parts tho it seems like I could maybe end up cheaper but they’ll be pretty close in price. I’ll likely be able to afford slightly better components tho. I’ll have to do a cost analysis. Also the angled headSet was a great idea. I was turned off by the steepish head angle. I am thinking about maybe throwing a 29” up front..

Appreciate the kind words about the thread

As for comparing whether to buy a Luna Z1 or buying directly from Dengfu, it's difficult for me to say.

You have to understand, here in the UK, no one has set up shop to distribute the Dengfu line of ebikes. Therefore, using Carbon Cycle via Ebay UK was a more ideal option. With Luna, you would get dealer backup. Buying from the source implies that you are taking full responsibility for the upkeep of the bike in its entirety.

It's with this thought process, I have nearly completed my parts list if components which 'may' break and alternatives/improved parts for any buyer to source. Regardless of their location.

For Example,
Their is a member on the forum who started a thread expressing concern that he needed a new power switch for his Dengfu E10. Unfortunately, trying to source this particular component is difficult. However, it is possible to make another (a better one).

The switch is ultimately no different to a PC Motherboard switch with a 16mm lock ring. Buy soldering a xt30 connector onto two 45-60cm cables, a new one could be made (although, I may choose to capitalize on this and start making some just in case).

Same thing goes with the linkage hardware (although, Luna Cycles already offers a titanium hardware kit). But you get my point. The more aftermarket solutions, the more future proof and appealing the dengfu line of ebikes become (or whoever sells frames resembling them).

The geometry is easily alterable. I've opted for the Works Components headset and Slackerizer headset by Super Star Components. But Wolf Tooth make a headset which should fit in the frame as well. Technically speaking, Dengfu have advised me that the E22 is meant to be a 29er . But I still like mine with 27.5" wheels.

But I'll keep everyone updated regarding my aftermarket parts list.

Don't hesitate to reach out to me if you have any questions

 

[Mabman]

@Swiftdaddy You might have missed the part above where I posted that LUNA has a lockdown on DengFu E22 frames in North America?

I modded mine for a 29" wheel in the front and I like it better than stock but I haven't had a bike without a 29" front wheel since 1999 and I found myself getting hung up with the even slightly smaller wheel more than once. No problems since. Wouldn't think it makes that big a difference but somehow for me it does? B+ on the rear works fine.

 

[Swiftdaddy]

@Swiftdaddy You might have missed the part above where I posted that LUNA has a lockdown on DengFu E22 frames in North America?

I modded mine for a 29" wheel in the front and I like it better than stock but I haven't had a bike without a 29" front wheel since 1999 and I found myself getting hung up with the even slightly smaller wheel more than once. No problems since. Wouldn't think it makes that big a difference but somehow for me it does? B+ on the rear works fine.

Ya I saw that which makes sense why they’re not showing up on eBay or similar. However, it looks like alibaba has them for sale though. Apparently the frame can take a 29” wheel:

This product is no longer available.

This product is no longer available.

m.alibaba.com

 

[Mabman]

There you go....price is way more reasonable than that alu frame also

 

[Swiftdaddy]

There you go....price is way more reasonable than that alu frame also

Ya I also prefer aluminum but this is cheaper. I asked them the geometry to confirm if it’s the same one. I’ll update here if I’m able to get one.

 

[Oldb**tard]

After pre-ordering a Norco Range VLT I decided to cancel it. It's just a lot of money to spend and I can't justify spending $7k on a bike. So that let me to thinking about just buying a Bafang kit and slapping it on a hard tail. I saw Luna cycles mentioned a lot selling these kits. Browsing their website, I then saw they actually offer a pre-built full on emtb - The Luna Z-1 Enduro, and also another called the X2 Enduro. Both at a very impressive price and carbon. Mind you I know this is probably just rebranded Chinese carbon but there is a 2 year warranty on the frame which is standard for most bikes, only 6 months on the motor but these can be found easily and Bafang has a good rep. Does not have top tier components but it is "cheap" enough that they can be easily swapped as needed. But that motor though holy crap it has power! 160nm of torque.. Battery is 850WH which IMO is perfect.

So before I pull the trigger, any reason I shouldn't? Anybody have experience with these bikes? I hear a lot of good things about the company itself so I am not too worried about customer service issues plus I am relatively local to the shop.

Link to bike:

Z1 Enduro EBIKE

One of the best fast electric bikes on the market for an incredible price. 2000 watt speed machine.

lunacycle.com

Hi, swiftdaddy, I picked up an X1 Enduro last July from Luna's El Segundo, CA location. At first, I wasn't happy with it for mountainbiking; it had some kind of wonky pedal/cadence program that didn't work at all for mtb'ing, imho. Anyway, it was a simple firmware change that fixed it. Also, I got the 2Kwh upgrade and the 'silent' package, which were a few hundred bucks more, but worth it, I think. The bike is technically a Class 3, since it can power up to 28 mph, so you can't legally ride it on many/most trails in California. The bike also comes with a throttle, which I removed from mine. I've done some other mods/upgrades, however, that have now made the bike really fun to trail ride. Without the throttle feature (useless for mtb'ing, imho) it is hard to tell it's not a Class 1, which are currently allowed on most trails right now. My opinion is overall the bike was worth what I paid for it, but some components, like the original derailleur, are sh** and should be replaced ASAP if you're going to ride challenging trails.
As a P.S., I swapped out the 27.5 fork for a 29, and replaced the Monarch air shock with a coil shock; both were worthwhile upgrades for me.

 

[deserthi]

I got the luna x2 and pretty much love it. Every once in a while the bike would just turn off. It wasn't a big problem cuz turning it off and on fixed it. It didn't happen a lot but maybe once day. I got an email from luna saying that they were aware of the problem and would be sending a new battery and I would not have to send my present battery back. A few weeks later I got the new battery and now I have two batteries. I can't put a 29" wheel on the Yari fork cuz of the cross piece so I might have to get a different fork. I did buy carbon wheels for it so the weight is right around 49lbs. I was thinking of getting a angle headset from Cane creek.

 

[Kiteboy]

I have a Dengfu E06 with the 620 motor (fat tire bike) and a Luna X1 with the Ludicrous Mode and silent gear. I like them both but the Luna is a more refined ride; power comes on butter smooth and I get a lot of range on single track trails (last ride was 18 miles and had around 75% remaining compared to 18% on the E06 for the same ride, same size battery, both carbon frames). If I could only have one bike though, it would be a hard choice, but the Luna X1 would probably win out.

 

[GBodio]

Bought a Z1 Enduro this past summer. 800 miles in, mostly trails, I'm still on the same drive train. The snapped chains I read so much about never materialized. In fact after a recent tune up, the only issues were a few broken spokes on the rear wheel, a loose crank, and a few other loose odds and ends.

For the most part, the Z1 is all I could ask for! I'm not on the throttle much, which results in great battery range. On a good day I can squeeze out 1%/Mile riding on packed or loose trails! Using PAS 1-3 I can finish a 10 mile ride, with 90% remaining.

The motor is off the charts punchy. But lacks a fully programmable control environment. But fortunately, it's easily programmed via a control cable and laptop or a Bluetooth Controller like EggRider. I actually bought one from Luna, but before it arrived I got used to the authoritative introduction of power. Ie. It's not the invisible onset seen in a Levo. You know when the motor kicks in. In any case the EGGRIDER is still in the box and I'm on board with the power onset. The bike is a little heavy. Though for what I'm riding the uber power does a good job to nullify it!.

Im not a pro emtb rider or anything. I just wanted a punchy bike with decent components! The Z1 delivered. And at its price, I could hang a boatload of high end components off it and still be under a Rail or Levo....

Oh, for what it's worth. The Paint on the Z1 looks awesome in the sun. I was riding with a Trek Rail 9.8 xt the other day. Side by side the Z1 looked just as nice.. IMHO

 

[CalyMike]

Have about 300 miles on my Z1 ans I love it broke the stock chain do to derailer strike while pedaling uphill now have a sram gx derailleur and sram gx chain upgraded shock Fox float x 230mm x 60mm rides so nice haven't had such fun since my BMX day's.

 

[CalyMike]

Been writing my Z1 for a year still running great love the bike so much I upgraded it, alot plusher and smooth I also have a hard tail and full suspension specialized, mountain biking such a awesome sport.

 

[Mabman]

I don't know how you SoCal boys keep your bikes so clean....up here in the OR mine looks way less so. But you are right they are fun bikes with some tweaks from stock.