Analysis Paralysis

[slartibartfast]

I've been riding bikes, both mountain and dirt, in the woods for 30 years. I bought my wife an eMTB a few years ago so we could ride together and my eyes were opened to how awesome eMTBs are. Now in my 40s with a family, I find I just don't have the heart, lungs, and legs I used to. I've been seriously thinking of an eMTB for me for the last year or so.

While I love my YZ250FX, the good riding areas are 2 hours away. I can access 80 miles of eMTB legal trails right outside my garage door. There are another 100 miles worth of eMTB trails in multiple areas all 20-60 minutes away from home. One place is a 3000ft climb to the top, and then enduro fun to the bottom. 3k ft over 12 miles is more than I have in me these days. It would be rad on an eMTB. Also hoping the eMTB would help improve my fitness, as I could trade back and forth between it and the analog bike and ride more frequently.

Joining to learn and browse to help make the right decision. Currently leaning towards a Levo and immediately swapping out the fork for something burlier. My current Stumpy Evo came with a Fox 36, and I wasn't impressed. Too much flex. A heavier eMTB would only make that worse.

These bikes currently have my attention:

Specialized Turbo Levo Alloy Comp
Pros - Specialized integration and design is fantastic. 700wh battery is big enough. Great dealers nearby.
Cons - Fox 36 fork.

Canyon Spectral:On CF 9
Pros - Huge battery, Fox 38, tall stack height
Cons - Lots of horror stories involving Canyon here in the states. Potential of getting a bike with the euro assist speed limit (20kph), poor warranty experiences, parts issues, poor quality control, poor assembly, etc.

Transition Repeater EP8:
Pros - Huge discounts. Solid spec. Fox 38 and coil shock compatible. Great dealer nearby. Tall stack height. Transitions are just cool.
Cons - 630wh battery.

Ari Timp Peak:
Pros - Value. Solid spec (XT Linkglide). 38mm DVO fork. 170mm travel. Good experience in working with them when my wife's Wire Peak arrived with a broken shifter.
Cons - 630wh battery and low stack.

I've reached the point of analysis paralysis. The perfect bike doesn't exist....

 

[Julie_X1]

I feel ya. Here’s what works for me when I get analysis paralysis.

I imagine myself having bought one of the choices and then seeing others with one of the other choices. Which one would my “gut” feel the most satisfied with, surrounded by the others?

There is no perfect one, as you say. In the end, there is only the one that is most suitable for you, based on what you know at the time you buy it.

I also heard someone say, “You marry the frame, you date the parts.” In the case, the frame extends to the motor and battery.

 

[slartibartfast]

I also heard someone say, “You marry the frame, you date the parts.” In the case, the frame extends to the motor and battery.

That's good advice, as much as I like the Repeater and Timp Peak, the battery will always be small (comparatively).

So, the reality is I am left with the Levo and a fork upgrade, or rolling the dice on a Canyon.

 

[James_C]

can you get this in the US?

Specialized Levo Alloy Öhlins Coil LTD

Specialized Levo Alloy Öhlins Coil LTD Chameleon £7000.00

www.specializedconceptstore.co.uk

 

[Weeksy]

You need to find a happy place, the answer to 'does the perfect bike exist' is of course NO. Today it'll be a 170mm Enduro with big battery, tomorrow it'll be a Lightweight with less battery and 140mm of travel. Then at the weekend it'll be a 200mm DH version..
So, pick what's going to suit you most most of the time.
There's no such things as bad bikes now. Sure motors fail, problems happen etc, but bikes themselves are utterly brilliant.
Time and time again i'm stunned by how effective bikes are at getting down things i'm not convinced i can ride, but they do it.
Don't get hung up on the details, in truth, buy the one in the colour and shape you like most. If you look at it and instantly go "mmmm yeah, love that" then just buy that one.

Fox36, mate they're superb, they're raced in all levels of Enduro by guys us mortals couldnt stay with for 1 corner, let alone a whole day. Whilst the one you rode may not have been set up right, doesn't mean it's a bad fork.

One thing i've seen in the last few years riding with my boy is "the bike/kit doesn't matter", he gets down things on his Privateer 141 that i could never even consider, let alone at the speed he's going. The parts on it are a bit 'meh' but he'll go down stuff like you wouldn't believe.

James Weeks on Instagram: "Tightest corners I’ve ridden in a long time . . @katycurdcoaching @dmrbikes @tld_bike_uk @saddleback_ltd @saddleback_mtb @crankbrothers @mudhugger2 @tftuned @oxprodcycle . . #eliteperformanceproducts #tldbike #tro

658 likes, 8 comments - weeksy08 on April 25, 2024: "Tightest corners I’ve ridden in a long time . . @katycurdcoaching @dmrbikes @tld_bike_uk @saddleback_ltd @saddleback_mtb @crankbr...".

www.instagram.com

You then realise, it just doesn't matter... if you're good enough, you're good enough.

Buy the bike you like and it'll be exactly what you need... don't get hung up on the details.

 

[Paulquattro]

Welcome
im sure you will be happy when riding with any of your choices

 

[slartibartfast]

I've spent more time on the Specialized website and see that the Alloy Ohlins Coil is available in the states, for the eye-watering sum of $9500. There is also the Expert T-Type with a Fox 38 Performance Elite, for an even higher $10k!

I've been looking at the Alloy Comp, which was recently on sale for $6k, regular price of $7k. Aside from the 36 Rhythm, I am fine with the spec. Alloy wheels, GX transmission, Code R brakes, Float X shock, and an X-Fusion dropper are what I have on my Stumpy Evo. These components get the job done.

Fox36, mate they're superb, they're raced in all levels of Enduro by guys us mortals couldnt stay with for 1 corner, let alone a whole day. Whilst the one you rode may not have been set up right, doesn't mean it's a bad fork.

You then realise, it just doesn't matter... if you're good enough, you're good enough.

Buy the bike you like and it'll be exactly what you need... don't get hung up on the details.

You are completely right in that the Fox 36 is lightyears ahead of old Rock Shox Judy I had on my 1998 Rockhopper. But, I don't find comparing what a pro can accomplish with equipment to what I can accomplish with the same equipment to be useful. A pro on my 1998 Rockhopper would likely be faster down the hill than I am on my modern Stumpy Evo. Another example, Ken Roczen could shred a modern SX track on an old 125, but I would never attempt a pro SX track even if I was given a factory 450.

I already wasn't happy with the 36 Rhythm on my Stumpy Evo. Given my admittedly limited talent level, the 36 Rhythm was making me ride tentatively. Confidence = speed and control. I like a front end that goes exactly where I point it, is plush, and yet doesn't blow through its travel. . This is not the 36 Rhythm in my experience.

Everyone's feedback has been very helpful. A Levo Comp Alloy with a fork upgrade is the bike for me, unless the Ohlins or Expert end up on a $3k off sale , or I find a lightly used one. I am not in a hurry, and will keep my eyes out for a sale I cannot pass up. Perhaps when the 2025 bikes come out....

 

[MOTO13]

I would say add the gen 4 Trek Rail 9.8 XT to your list. Quite possibly one of the best all around bikes I have ever owned or ridden.

 

[slartibartfast]

I would say add the gen 4 Trek Rail 9.8 XT to your list. Quite possibly one of the best all around bikes I have ever owned or ridden.

Thanks for the suggestion. I took a look, but the geo doesn't look like a good fit for me. The large has a huge reach of 487mm/491mm. The medium is 452mm/456mm. 470-ish is more what I'm looking. Sizing down to the medium may be ok reach wise, but then the stack is 629/633. I prefer closer to 640.

 

[gmoss]

I've spent more time on the Specialized website and see that the Alloy Ohlins Coil is available in the states, for the eye-watering sum of $9500. There is also the Expert T-Type with a Fox 38 Performance Elite, for an even higher $10k!

I've been looking at the Alloy Comp, which was recently on sale for $6k, regular price of $7k. Aside from the 36 Rhythm, I am fine with the spec. Alloy wheels, GX transmission, Code R brakes, Float X shock, and an X-Fusion dropper are what I have on my Stumpy Evo. These components get the job done.


You are completely right in that the Fox 36 is lightyears ahead of old Rock Shox Judy I had on my 1998 Rockhopper. But, I don't find comparing what a pro can accomplish with equipment to what I can accomplish with the same equipment to be useful. A pro on my 1998 Rockhopper would likely be faster down the hill than I am on my modern Stumpy Evo. Another example, Ken Roczen could shred a modern SX track on an old 125, but I would never attempt a pro SX track even if I was given a factory 450.

I already wasn't happy with the 36 Rhythm on my Stumpy Evo. Given my admittedly limited talent level, the 36 Rhythm was making me ride tentatively. Confidence = speed and control. I like a front end that goes exactly where I point it, is plush, and yet doesn't blow through its travel. . This is not the 36 Rhythm in my experience.

Everyone's feedback has been very helpful. A Levo Comp Alloy with a fork upgrade is the bike for me, unless the Ohlins or Expert end up on a $3k off sale , or I find a lightly used one. I am not in a hurry, and will keep my eyes out for a sale I cannot pass up. Perhaps when the 2025 bikes come out....

I have had all iterations of the 36 and they all havw worked well, just varying degrees. The Rhythm worked well even, but none will work well if not dialed. Idk how much time you spent with it, how often it was serviced, or if you pulled and cleaned the air shaft, but don't let your limited experience with their lowest model 36 spoil the bunch. All my 36's have been the best fork in that category I have used, which includes DVO Diamond, CC Helm and most recently the Lyrik that came on my Trek Fuel EXE. My 36 goes where I point without deflection or beating me up.

With picking a bike, you have to choose on the things that suit you most and are impossible or most difficult to change. As mentioned with ebikes, that centers around the motor. I chose the Trek because it checked nearly all the boxes for me. Forks are easy to swap and was one of the first things I did.

 

[Mrj35]

That's good advice, as much as I like the Repeater and Timp Peak, the battery will always be small (comparatively).

So, the reality is I am left with the Levo and a fork upgrade, or rolling the dice on a Canyon.

Norco Range VLT A1 E-Bike | Jenson USA

www.jensonusa.com

This bike should be what your looking for coming from the moto scene.
this is the higher spec one.

Norco Range VLT C1 E-Bike | Jenson USA

www.jensonusa.com

 

[MOTO13]

Thanks for the suggestion. I took a look, but the geo doesn't look like a good fit for me. The large has a huge reach of 487mm/491mm. The medium is 452mm/456mm. 470-ish is more what I'm looking. Sizing down to the medium may be ok reach wise, but then the stack is 629/633. I prefer closer to 640.

I had a 2020 Rail in a medium. My new rail has a larger reach also I believe...but not much, but it just fits perfect. I know a couple guys who went to the medium in the gen 4 Rail and were previously on a large.

 

[slartibartfast]

Something else of note I am finding is that motor and battery issues aren't unheard of for just about everyone. Specialized/Brose, Shimano, Bosch, Yamaha, etc all seem to have occasional issues. This makes me hesitant to buy a bike that I don't have a dealer nearby. Component issues I can mostly handle myself. Motor/battery issues are going to have to serviced by the dealer while under warranty.

The Norco that @Mrj35 linked looks cool, but the nearest dealer is over an hour away, and in a direction I only go a couple times a year. It would be rather annoying to have to drive 2+ hours round trip if I have an issue.

Same issue with Orbea, while the bikes are highly rated, the nearest dealer for those is a 5 hour drive round trip!

 

[Weeksy]

Something else of note I am finding is that motor and battery issues aren't unheard of for just about everyone. Specialized/Brose, Shimano, Bosch, Yamaha, etc all seem to have occasional issues. This makes me hesitant to buy a bike that I don't have a dealer nearby. Component issues I can mostly handle myself. Motor/battery issues are going to have to serviced by the dealer while under warranty.

The Norco that @Mrj35 linked looks cool, but the nearest dealer is over an hour away, and in a direction I only go a couple times a year. It would be rather annoying to have to drive 2+ hours round trip if I have an issue.

Same issue with Orbea, while the bikes are highly rated, the nearest dealer for those is a 5 hour drive round trip!

Distance to closest dealer is 100% a reason to buy an Ebike.

 

[Mrj35]

Distance to closest dealer is 100% a reason to buy an Ebike.

yeah very true. That company is local for me.

 

[slartibartfast]

Giant isn't a brand that is top of mind for me, but see I have a Giant dealer very close. I perused their website, and the Giant Reign E+ 2 looks like it might be a perfect fit.

Pros: Geo looks right (475 reach and 645 stack), Zeb fork, 800wh battery, solid spec (SLX), competitive price, plus the motor is a Yamaha, so bonus points for matching my beloved YZ250FX.

Cons: Maxxis High Roller is a tire I don't care for. Giant isn't a "cool" brand?

Tires are easy to change. Being in my 40s, "cool" has long since passed me by.

@Rob Rides EMTB has a rather glowing review of the Reign E+: Everything about the 2022/2023 Giant Reign E+

 

[Mr Tonka]

OP's self-diagnoses of paralysis by analysis is correct.

I'll add some anecdote... a friend of mine who lives in Bellingham is the destroyer of all things bikes. Bearings, linkage, frames, wheels, spokes, hubs, etc.... I'm talking 5 out of 10 rides he breaks something. He switched bike brands to Transition. Got a Spire. LOOOVED it. Went through linkage bearings quite a bit, but breaking of bikes basically ended with the switch to transition. Last year he got an EP8 Repeater. The second message I got from him after the Repeater purchase was, "all my dreams are coming true". It's been a year and the only thing he's broken on that bike is the charge port cover.

I would warn against the Canyon. Too many of those bikes broken in my neck of the woods, many of the warranty claims still open, unresolved or just denied.

I'm too biased to give suggestions. LoL Repeater PT for full power or Relay PNW for mid power are my go to suggestions.

Good luck buddy!

 

[slartibartfast]

The second message I got from him after the Repeater purchase was, "all my dreams are coming true".

I would warn against the Canyon. Too many of those bikes broken in my neck of the woods, many of the warranty claims still open, unresolved or just denied.

Now, that's funny

Also, I find it interesting that there are multiple people defending the honor of the Fox 36, yet zero people have said a good word to defend Canyon.

 

[Mr Tonka]

Now, that's funny

Also, I find it interesting that there are multiple people defending the honor of the Fox 36, yet zero people have said a good word to defend Canyon.

I should add that he rides that Repeater EP8 at least 4 days a week since buying it. Even sold his DH bike and just rode that in Whistler. He rides hard too. Big gaps, big drops, damn near mach chicken on every trail.

 

[Plummet]

hmmm. On that list it would be between the ari and the repeater.
With that said. I would want a minimum of 750wh battery for full power emtb. No none of them would meet the grade.

 

[Mrj35]

Giant isn't a brand that is top of mind for me, but see I have a Giant dealer very close. I perused their website, and the Giant Reign E+ 2 looks like it might be a perfect fit.

Pros: Geo looks right (475 reach and 645 stack), Zeb fork, 800wh battery, solid spec (SLX), competitive price, plus the motor is a Yamaha, so bonus points for matching my beloved YZ250FX.

Cons: Maxxis High Roller is a tire I don't care for. Giant isn't a "cool" brand?

Tires are easy to change. Being in my 40s, "cool" has long since passed me by.

@Rob Rides EMTB has a rather glowing review of the Reign E+: Everything about the 2022/2023 Giant Reign E+

ID say get a bike with optimal geometry and shocks. The rest just replace it as you go to what you want. I chose a low spec bike with good shocks and geometry as the top spec didnt have what I wanted anyway.
I put dh casing tires on, swapped the wheels, changed the discs and pads, and the handlebar. Also added a 190mm airshaft to the fork.

Its basically an optimal setup for the riding I like to do.

I'm pretty sure the brand I ride (Norco) isn't considered cool but who cares its one of the best downhill oriented ebikes out there thats local to me.

If it was 'cool' it would be something like a yt decoy, or if you want to go popular then specialized levo, and then luxury spec carbon orbea wild lol.

I actually bought my bike from a motocross dealer. They got into the ebike scene, they also sell gasgas, husqvarna ebikes.

 

[gmoss]

Yep, you can skin this cat many ways. I find changing shock and fork easier today than drivetrain. I intentionally bought a higher model to get the drivetrain I wanted and swapped the other stuff off my other bike. Left me with some good parts to use or sell. Basically only thing that will stay stock on my bike is the drivetrain. Haha

 

[slartibartfast]

hmmm. On that list it would be between the ari and the repeater.
With that said. I would want a minimum of 750wh battery for full power emtb. No none of them would meet the grade.

Yup, if the Repeater has a 750 rather than a 625, it would be the winner

 

[Plummet]

Yup, if the Repeater has a 750 rather than a 625, it would be the winner

I saw the new repeater the other day. It looked fantastic......
750wh repeater would win this battle for sure.

 

[Romney]

Levo Comp Alloy with the TCU mastermind is a nice bike all around !

 

[wanderingjim]

If you’re talking about a 20-30 mile ride, are those battery sizes that bad? I took my wife’s Orbea Rise 576Wh out for a ride, and only used 25% of the battery on a 10mile ride with 900 feet of elevation, most of the climbs were relatively steep.

Sure, you can use more battery than that, but even at that level it was so much easier than my unpowered bike. Both average and max HR were 30 bpm lower than on my regular bike. I’d have to check but I’m pretty sure my HR was higher on the downhill sections than the climbs.

 

[Mikehorti]

I'm pretty sure the brand I ride (Norco) isn't considered cool

Wrong. All eMTBs are cool, rad, awesome, wicked, mad and sick!

 

[slartibartfast]

A follow up:

I was able to borrow an eMTB with a Shimano E7000 motor (60nm) and a 500wh battery on my trails to get a sense of range, since it seems to vary wildly. I did 19 miles and 2800ft of elevation in 2 hours, almost entirely in Boost mode. This was 4 laps of the riding area. I hit one bar of battery left on the last climb a couple hundred feet from the top. I dropped down into Trail mode when that happened, as I was on the backside of the hill and didn't want to be stuck with a dead battery. But, I strongly think it would have easily made it to the top if I had left it in Boost, given how long a bar lasted.

This made me realize that a 625wh battery and an 85nm motor is going to be plenty for me. I can probably get at least 6, if not 8, laps in the mid support mode, and that mid support mode is going to probably be just as fast as Boost in the 60nm E7000. The eMTB is for quick afternoon rides, 3 hours max, but more commonly 1-2 hours long. If I am doing an all day epic, I am going to be on the dirt bike

Fast forward to this week and Trek has discounted the Rail 7 Gen 2 to $4300, from an MSRP of $6650 and it is now sitting in my garage. Bosch CX motor, 625wh battery, SLX/XT build. RockShox Domain fork, which will probably get a coil conversion at some point in time. It has a more relaxed seat tube angle, which puts less pressure on my hands, and thus my concern about stack seems to be nullified.

 

[gmoss]

Congrats. Trek has had somw good prices lately. Picked up my Fuel exe recently at a good discount. The way I ride, my TQ shows me having anywhere from 40 to 80+ miles of range. Haha. I don't ride on full power except short sections or as a final loop or section.