An Open Letter to all Mountain Bikers....

[Fingerpuk]

The loudest most active people in any political game win.

Contact the brands. Get sit down meetings with the parks. Let them ride your bike. Show that it doesn’t ruin the trail, isn’t a motorbike, isn’t more dangerous, but does encourage more people to ride.

Which in turn leads to increased local business opportunities. Get the council to buy in. Ask them to help you create a plan for access, start an organisation with all the relevant paperwork and insurance in place.

Find an alternative place to ride. Speak to land owners.

In my local area we are fighting against an organised mob of old religious church folk who are all retired and have al day to do this stuff. The only way I can compete is to make friends and nudge people into more sensible decisions.

I do this by being friendly, calm, considered, and persistent in my flirting with the council.

 

[OldGoatMTB]

The loudest most active people in any political game win.

Contact the brands. Get sit down meetings with the parks. Let them ride your bike. Show that it doesn’t ruin the trail, isn’t a motorbike, isn’t more dangerous, but does encourage more people to ride.

Which in turn leads to increased local business opportunities. Get the council to buy in. Ask them to help you create a plan for access, start an organisation with all the relevant paperwork and insurance in place.

Find an alternative place to ride. Speak to land owners.

In my local area we are fighting against an organised mob of old religious church folk who are all retired and have al day to do this stuff. The only way I can compete is to make friends and nudge people into more sensible decisions.

I do this by being friendly, calm, considered, and persistent in my flirting with the council.

Hey, a lot of us "church fold" are quite decent. Some even EMTB.

 

[KeithR]

as well as the first few eMTB I came across being quite high powered with throttle as well as pedals. Also a few early electric MX bikes like the ZeroFX, Sur Ron were kicked off my trails after ripping the place up.

That's a big part of the issue - in some people's minds, an e-bike is an electric motorbike (Sur-Ron being a perfect example - and yes, I'd love one! ) and it's easy for them to take the lazy view that "they're all the same", tarring us with the same brush, and banning anything with a motor, rather than taking a more nuanced approach.

And - I have to say - acoustic bike riders are still a fertile source of this nonsense:

Back-to-back: Mountain Bike v Ebike by spoonyman - Pinkbike

IntroductionAfter mountain biking for almost 10 years, in 2015 I was lucky enough to pick up sponsorship from my local bikes shop, Mitchell Cycles. Team Mitchell Cycles is going from strength

www.pinkbike.com

From the comments (and by Pinkbike standards this is a tiny comments section, unusually. I tracked this down easily, at random, a few minutes ago - it wasn't bookmarked):

Mountain bikers are rightfully concerned about the threat that ebikes pose to this hard won access

Electric moped ("ebike") users have not formed any kind of advocacy groups to deal with these issues and the industry has done some very, very basic work mostly so they can claim to have done something in their marketing.

They want the high margin sales and "growing the pie" by selling ebikes to fat lazy people... oh wait sorry I mean to disabled old grandparents and those with various disabilities, that's the typical ebike argument they make about "accessibility"

To be clear, I am 100% against calling these electric mopeds ebikes/mountain bikes and 100% against their use on mountain bike specific trails outside of commercial bike parks that want them. Especially non-motorized trails.

That's the biggest problem, right there. As long as "our own" are against us, policy makers are going to find it easy to make blanket decisions that impact unfairly on ebikers.

 

[mtbninja]

A fit XC ride can out ride my eMTB any day. Not for as long, though in some cases still impressively long.
I agree the limit around the would needs to be lifted to 20mph (32kmph) like in the USA, as I regularly find my riding pace to sit between 27-35kmph, which gets super annoying. I'm in Australia and its the 15mph 35kmph) limit, and it bugs me.

Trails will get more damage from an in experienced rider leaving breaking bumps and not respecting the trail, than from an eMTB. HOWEVER more people who are inexperience, and potentially less capable are now able to access more trails and with such capable bikes, hitting tougher level trails than they should. With the heavier eMTB and poor riding skills, this can/does lead to more trail damage. This is not an inerrant issue from being an eMTB but it is a fact that eMTBs do open the trails up to more potential damage. Braking bumps are horrible, and they are a compounding issue as they make it harder to brake and corner smoothly even for an experienced rider.

I don't believe trails should be limited from eMTB use, however limited from non-pedelelec bikes, so throttle assist, or more precisely, anything derestricted and overpowered. I think it is fair for a disabled rider to be allowed to use the trails on a throttle assist bike presuming it is not more powerful than the allowed pedelelec bikes. While mostly the speed on a derestricted eMTB is not an issue, because on a down hill any bike could get similar speeds and you can only corner so fast regardless, the issue is riders pushing past their limits and the designed limits of the trail, causing crashes and un-necessary wear. Going too hot in to corners and leaving breaking bumps or skidding around the trail is not good trail etiquette and that is a big difference to trails being used by an eMTB or acoustic bike. eMTBs are bigger and heavier bikes, and generally with very powerful brakes, that is where the cornering damage occurs. Also you will now also have less fit and less capable riders hitting tougher trails, trails that used to get less use and were generally ridden only by more experienced riders with better respect for the trails.

 

[KeithR]

With the heavier eMTB and poor riding skills, this can/does lead to more trail damage.

I've been riding an e-bike since 2016 (and mountain biking for over 20 years) and I've yet to see evidence this anywhere.

 

[Fingerpuk]

Hey, a lot of us "church fold" are quite decent. Some even EMTB.

Those in my village are very... not sure how best to describe them. Insular. Wary. Unsure of anything with wheels. Like to fight the fight against any type of change - loudly. Backed by funds and long held personal connections.

 

[miPbiP]

Here in the US we mostly blame people riding on wet trails, but I understand that's kind of a sacrament in the U.K.

problem is we have a damp country. if we waited for dry trails there are years when we wouldn't ride and others we'd get 30 days.

 

[Flatslide]

Here in Dunners, we ride all year round too. Certain trails have south-facing exposed sections which become a sloppy mess over winter as Antarctica blows straight into them, and for this reason I avoid them on my bikes. Both bikes, e and mtb. It isn't that I'm concerned with the trail-as everyone else still rides them, it is simply that I cannot be arsed having the drivetrain full of clay and bush suppositories... We have plenty of other trails that are under tree cover with dodgy off-camber root and rock sections to gamble life and limb on

 

[KeithR]

Truth is most folk are not too concerned about trail damage

You're missing the point by a country mile. They are when they can use it as a stick to beat us with.

 

[KeithR]

Some people seem to like to copy and paste then edit to what waffle they like all day on the keyboard and then post their expert opinions on here.

Exactly the kind of head-in-sand denial that lets the bans happen in the first place.

These bans do happen - that's what the thread is telling you, very clearly - and pretending they don't, or not caring because it hasn't yet happened to you, is facile and disingenuous.

 

[Gary]

I'm in Scotland too and yes. our access laws are great, but they're based on common courtesy. The only mtb riders I meet who don't seem to "get" this are either naive, self centred or ignorant, and TBH any experienced mtb rider who is not concerned in the slightest with mtb trail damage generally also seems to be the sort of rider who's really never spent any time or effort building or maintained trails.
All natural terrain does indeed deteriorate over time and the way it changes is of course partly dependant on the ground type, partly general useage and partly local weather. Willfully contributing to a trails deterioration by choosing to ride your bike there is one thing. But washing your hands of all responsibility for it is another. And there is actually an alternative to simply thinking you're some sort of especially fortunate soul who's just able to ride whatever you want until it's wrecked before moving on to other trails you're never going to help maintain either ad infinitum.

Makes you think, eh?

Or... Probably not

 

[Rusty]

That's a big part of the issue - in some people's minds, an e-bike is an electric motorbike (Sur-Ron being a perfect example - and yes, I'd love one! )

Me too. A buddy has one and loves it. Might look at the KTM though as I want something solid. Sad about Alta - a guy I know has been riding one for years and loves it.

Electric moped ("ebike") users have not formed any kind of advocacy groups to deal with these issues and the industry has done some very, very basic work mostly so they can claim to have done something in their marketing.

Actually ...... some of us have been MTB advocates for years ... 20 in my case. Have been at countless meetings with the local councils and DOC - my thoughts on eMTB are well known to the local managers.

They want the high margin sales and "growing the pie" by selling ebikes to fat lazy people... oh wait sorry I mean to disabled old grandparents and those with various disabilities, that's the typical ebike argument they make about "accessibility"

Shit, I resemble that remark... well, at least fat, old and having disabilities. However, the last clown that used that argument had me breathing down his neck the last 2 hours of a 6 hour race on my SS 29er.

To be clear, I am 100% against calling these electric mopeds ebikes/mountain bikes and 100% against their use on mountain bike specific trails outside of commercial bike parks that want them. Especially non-motorized trails.[./QUOTE]
Once again - some uneducated clown talking out his arse with little actual knowledge of pedaltech vs fully motor powered bikes.

 

[b45her]

Here in the US we mostly blame people riding on wet trails, but I understand that's kind of a sacrament in the U.K.

i prefer mud its far more predictable than dry dusty turns. i we didnt ride in the wet we wouldnt ridw at all.

 

[Stihldog]

The loudest most active people in any political game win.
The only way I can compete is to make friends and nudge people into more sensible decisions.

I do this by being friendly, calm, considered, and persistent in my flirting with the council.

There is so much truth in this.
My short time in the political area allowed me to see the difference of opinions which can influence decisions if done correctly.
Gentle persuasion and discovery education can help almost any cause.

There are many methods we can use. Education, media, hands-on maintenance, planning involvement, new connections, etc.
But we can’t wait for things to go our way. Seek-out the leaders who are involved (there are many) who will/may influence others and who may eventually make decisions.

The Emtb community has a new and interesting sport. I’m sure that most of us has an interesting story that would justify our need for fun, adventure or risk but we somehow need to fit into all the other sports that surround us. Take a moment to fire off an email or letter to make you view known.

 

[Slowroller]

The US laws are the best, they're the most lenient. The US laws are the worst, they are the most lenient. Both of those are true. I worry about access because we're an entitled lot and will do what we want until someone stops us.

 

[NIBW]

I’m relatively new to MTB coming from the BMX world. Been having a blast riding the ebike and it’s made all aspects of the sport fun.

Sadly though I live in New England where the local NEMBA seem made up of uninformed thinking when it comes to ebikes and they put out this statement last year:

Some Comments about Electric Mountain Biking

Please see NEMBA's updated position statement on eMTBs from January 27, 2021 - Updated Position Statement -----Electric mountain biking is stirring up a lot of controversy these days as land managers, advocates, the bike industry and fellow riders try to get their heads around how they fit into...

www.nemba.org

I was saddened to read this as it borders on discriminatory behavior that out right seeks to stopgap any growth of MTB or Emtb.
I could use any advice on how or if it’s worthwhile to respond. Honestly most riders I’ve met on trails are super nice but I am worried about posting anything online in any of the NE facebook groups that would draw ebike Fire.

 

[Canmore TLCC 29]

Well, my first reading suggests their concern is how ebikes compare to “Elite” riders, and that eMTB’s outpace these Elites. Which among us consider themselves in competition with Elite riders? I most certainly don’t. I ride an eMTB for exercise and to get out in nature and enjoy some really awsome terrain, and that is all. That’s it.

 

[Canmore TLCC 29]

The problem is with the US and your stupid rules and laws.
Hope that clears it up for ya.

We all get along just fine on the whole in most of the rest of the world.

Let’s not forget that the US National Parks system has made ebikes legal in National Parks. The BLM has yet, correct me if I am wrong, to legalize ebikes in National Forrests. IMHO, there are issues everywhere and these issues have mothing to do with stupidity, amd everything to do with education and public relations.

 

[NIBW]

Well, my first reading suggests their concern is how ebikes compare to “Elite” riders, and that eMTB’s outpace these Elites. Which among us consider themselves in competition with Elite riders? I most certainly don’t. I ride an eMTB for exercise and to get out in nature and enjoy some really awsome terrain, and that is all. That’s it.

It’s startling the language used, especially when declaring ebikes as an attack on the ‘purity’ of MTB. The suggestion that an ebike is able to get to 20mph in 4 pedal strokes is laughable.

 

[Canmore TLCC 29]

It’s startling the language used, especially when declaring ebikes as an attack on the ‘purity’ of MTB. The suggestion that an ebike is able to get to 20mph in 4 pedal strokes is laughable.

6 pedals strokes, but still laughable. Downhill perhaps.

 

[Cavi]

one of the trail systems I ride also has Horses, and trust me in the winter there is no way a Emtb could do anywhere near the damage that a group of horses does, their paws make like 4 inch deep holes everywhere

 

[Jilleride45]

Let’s not forget that the US National Parks system has made ebikes legal in National Parks. The BLM has yet, correct me if I am wrong, to legalize ebikes in National Forrests. IMHO, there are issues everywhere and these issues have mothing to do with stupidity, amd everything to do with education and public relations.

As of last fall, US National Parks allow ebikes where bicycles are allowed. The BLM also took this stance. A specific trail or area can be omitted if the superintendent files for an exception. The BLM and National Forest are two separate agencies. The National Forest has not adopted the same plan and still classifies ebikes as motorized.

 

[Pivot]

Too many humanoids on the planet with growing inequality is a real issue. Some groups feel being squeezed from their ‘formerly-own territories’ and devious people/orgs with questionable motives exploit it, polarising society and diverting focus from the real issues.

40-years ago (when I was a little girl ) I used to ride a bicycle to school with my buddies. Today, kids get dropped of in large SUVs. I have seen hand-bag fights in the parking lot , but nobody is willing to ban SUV’s or handbags at the school premises

 

[Pivot]

I think unfortunately the unjust inequality has been ignorantly mixed with the designed by nature inequality that should be respected. But it’s mostly due to the by nature inequalities ignorantly mistreated and now we are dealing with the polar opposite swing of that.

Ignorant question :
What is “designed by nature inequality that should be respected”?

 

[Sean1.0]

Me too. A buddy has one and loves it. Might look at the KTM though as I want something solid. Sad about Alta - a guy I know has been riding one for years and loves it.

I have a KTM Freeride E-XC and its definitely nothing like my eMTBs... which do not try to rip my face off and make a hole in time at the twist of a right hand grip

I don't use it much tbh (might even sell it soon if anyone fancies one in the UK) but It's fun making lines and keeping the grass mashed up on my pocket size MTB track at home... which I absolutely built for my 8 year old lass to have fun on and not at all for me on eMTB and eMX bikes.

Having had eMTBs since 2015 and travelled around a fair bit with them, I've introduced a lot of "get a proper bike" attitude MTB riders into having a first go and they have 100% all been stoked and surprised at the experience. On balance I've also met a lot of "that's the future" MTB riders but It's amazing at just how clueless so many folks, including cyclists and MTB gearheads, are regards what an eBike actually is / does ... even today, with so many more about, It still seems a lot of folks think its some kind of twist and go fast thing that is more akin to a 'motor' bike than a 'push' bike. Seems the blinkered intolerant attitude of many in the MTB world is real shame... especially as I've seen so many hard core riders convert to assist over time for whatever reason... usually post injury / age or simply just having a go and getting over fun denial. That uneducated and intolerant attitude from those who are effectively fellow MTB riders may sadly reflect a wider view and opinion that will only be exasperating any potential access issues.

as an aside ...

I noticed there is another thread running linking to a petition to increase the eBike assist speed limit in the UK ... I couldn't help thinking that may be counterintuitive to also being concerned about preserving access rights and the, arguably more important, need to be actively campaigning for that at the same time ... like it may only serve to be drawing attention to potential speed consistency on flats / uphills etc. and the desire of eMTB riders to go faster up, down and along all manner of trails and tracks many of which are of course shared with other users ?

End of the day I expect there are a lot more riders across a wider range of abilities going faster up and down hills, trails , tracks and woodlands in more places than ever before.

I'd go for an education & access campaign over an assist speed limit increase petition every day of the week.

 

[Gary]

Let’s not forget that the US National Parks system has made ebikes legal in National Parks. The BLM has yet, correct me if I am wrong, to legalize ebikes in National Forrests. IMHO, there are issues everywhere and these issues have mothing to do with stupidity, amd everything to do with education and public relations.

TBF poor Education and poor public relations has quite a big impact on stupidity

 

[Kentish]

one of the trail systems I ride also has Horses, and trust me in the winter there is no way a Emtb could do anywhere near the damage that a group of horses does, their paws make like 4 inch deep holes everywhere

I'd pay money to see a horse with paws. ?

Best I could do at short notice...

 

[Canmore TLCC 29]

TBF poor Education and poor public relations has quite a big impact on stupidity

Sure, but I consider stupidity to be innate.

 

[Zimmerframe]

I'd pay money to see a horse with paws. ?

Best I could do at short notice...

Oooooh ... Could you imagine what a 500kg trail dog would poop out .. at least horse droppings are just processed grass .. THEN you'd have a BIG problem on a trail !

But today's answer is ... HOOF ....