An Open Letter to all Mountain Bikers....

[Philpug]

Snippet:
Nonmotorized access laws were instituted to limit trail access for gas-powered motorcycles, quads/four-wheelers, and other off-road vehicles that are noisy and damage trails. Other levels of access exist for such human-powered activities as hiking, trail running, mountain biking, and, in some regions, horses. These distinctions were clear and well-defined for years, until the recent introduction of a class of mountain bike that seems to blur the lines. That new segment is electric mountain bikes, or eMTBs. Such bikes have an electric-assist motor, but one that is activated only under human power, not like a throttle on a traditional motorized vehicle. Now the question is, Should this new segment of mountain bikes be allowed on mountain bike trails or limited to motorized access trails. Well, who is actually asking the question, and where does the problem arise?

Full Article HERE:

An Open Letter to All Mountain Bikers: "Why Can't We All Just Get Along?"

Nonmotorized access laws were instituted to limit trail access for gas-powered motorcycles, quads/four-wheelers, and other off-road vehicles that are noisy and damage trails. Other levels of access exist for such human-powered activities as...

www.pugski.com

 

[Gary]

The problem is with the US and your stupid rules and laws.
Hope that clears it up for ya.

We all get along just fine on the whole in most of the rest of the world.

 

[Forever Wild]

The problem is with the US and your stupid rules and laws.
Hope that clears it up for ya.

We all get along just fine on the whole in most of the rest of the world.

I as an American agree with you, sir.

 

[dscintille]

The problem is with the US and your stupid rules and laws.
Hope that clears it up for ya.

We all get along just fine on the whole in most of the rest of the world.

While we do certainly have our share of crazy, stupid laws, at least we are allowed to go up to 32km/h (20 mph) for Class 1 kit. Regardless, there does appear to be room for some reasonable laws and responsible riding that would make everyone (not) happy.

 

[Forever Wild]

While we do certainly have our share of crazy, stupid laws, at least we are allowed to go up to 32km/h (20 mph) for Class 1 kit. Regardless, there does appear to be room for some reasonable laws and responsible riding that would make everyone (not) happy.

Wow. Great point. The rest of the world really has no point to make with the United States until you fix the 25 km/h speed limitation. That’s just stupid.

 

[Husky430]

My ebike goes much faster than 25km/h, you just have to find a steeper hill to ride down.
Riding fast on the flat is just boring and and you should get a road bike and some lycra, flying uphill off road at 25km\h has me laughing like a school kid again. I suppose it's all about perspective.

 

[urastus]

Here in Australia many of our laws / legislation are via a parasitic process. A very generic world wide example of that is acceptance of tyres that are approved for on the road use; DOT approved. DOT is the US Department Of Transport.

As populations increase, and tolerances decrease and we become more polarised (seems to go hand in hand) other countries could easily have this argument. One thing is for sure, if the US bans emtb use in mtb areas, it will have an influence on other countries (Australia being one of them), and the whole industry / development of emtb. Would the US account for 50% of emtb sales / development? I look at what is happening in the US with some concern for those who ride emtb in the US, and for the rest of us.

 

[Flatslide]

NZ has simple laws currently and we've adopted a suck-it-and-see approach to e-bikes. Trails on public land (probably the majority), are generally built by volunteers (and or the Periodic Detention crew), with the approval of the local municipality. This can also be a pain when some lonely old god-bothering twits have a wee moan... 'Inappropriate' Dunedin mountain bike track names to go after two complaints
In the meantime we have the North American 32km/h and 45km/h bikes available. There's a fella with a small electric dirt bike who rides the mtb trails with his mates who mostly have e-mtbs. Most riders don't give a shit cos he's not ripping up the place or riding like a dick.

 

[KennyB]

Wow. Great point. The rest of the world really has no point to make with the United States until you fix the 25 km/h speed limitation. That’s just stupid.

Ride my bike anywhere I can ride a bicycle, but motor support restricted to 25 kph, or motor support up to 32 kph but restricted to certain tracks. Jury won't take long on that one.

 

[Two Tone]

Im fairly new on the EMTB scene but am a long time motorcycle trail rider, motorcyclists have lost access to lots of trails particularly since 2006 and the pressure to vanquish motor vehicles totally from the unpaved network is growing all the time people have become more intolerant of others and the ease with which they can now fire off emails to all and sundry increases the pressure on authorities to act, ramblers would love to have sole access to the unpaved right of way network not content with having exclusive access to footpaths which make up 80% of that network, hopefully they won't be successful because cycles are not traceable in the same way as motorcycles and also it would be difficult to restrict access to cycles without also imposing the same ban on horses and if the ramblers tried to take on the horse riding fraternity who are well connected and wealthy they would struggle.I think it would be difficult to make a different class of access for legal EMTBS over MTBS given that its so hard to distinguish between them now, it does need watching the Ramblers and some of their off-shoot organisation are persistent and insidious organisation who will construct arguments based on half truths, lies and Scenarios where their members have been shocked and distressed by other users.

 

[geehaw]

Wow. Great point. The rest of the world really has no point to make with the United States until you fix the 25 km/h speed limitation. That’s just stupid.

Would you rather have access to all trails at 25kph or limited access to trails at 32kph. I would prefer access to all trails even if it meant an even slower speed. If I wanted speed I'd buy a motorbike. I just want some assist up steep hills that I normally wouldn't make without stopping on a non ebike.

 

[Two Tone]

Would you rather have access to all trails at 25kph or limited access to trails at 32kph. I would prefer access to all trails even if it meant an even slower speed. If I wanted speed I'd buy a motorbike. I just want some assist up steep hills that I normally wouldn't make without stopping on a non ebike.

Motorised vehicles currently have access to about 2.5% of the unpaved network, cycles share 20% with horses. Ramblers have 100% but would still like to see other users share reduced further.

 

[Canmore TLCC 29]

Im fairly new on the EMTB scene but am a long time motorcycle trail rider, motorcyclists have lost access to lots of trails particularly since 2006 and the pressure to vanquish motor vehicles totally from the unpaved network is growing all the time people have become more intolerant of others and the ease with which they can now fire off emails to all and sundry increases the pressure on authorities to act, ramblers would love to have sole access to the unpaved right of way network not content with having exclusive access to footpaths which make up 80% of that network, hopefully they won't be successful because cycles are not traceable in the same way as motorcycles and also it would be difficult to restrict access to cycles without also imposing the same ban on horses and if the ramblers tried to take on the horse riding fraternity who are well connected and wealthy they would struggle.I think it would be difficult to make a different class of access for legal EMTBS over MTBS given that its so hard to distinguish between them now, it does need watching the Ramblers and some of their off-shoot organisation are persistent and insidious organisation who will construct arguments based on half truths, lies and Scenarios where their members have been shocked and distressed by other users.

Banff national parks has made the decision to limit eMTB access in tue park to four trails.

 

[KeithR]

Banff national parks has made the decision to limit eMTB access in tue park to four trails.

View attachment 36587

That's entirely because e-bikers as a group have been far too slow to challenge BS like this article, and the assumptions in it:

Why E-bikes Shouldn't Be Allowed on MTB Bike Trails?

Already in 2014, Moab, which is a trail-heaven in Utah, banned electric bikes from many of the area's most popular trails. It was simply an articulation

www.welovecycling.com

That kind of mud sticks, and reinforces the idea that e-bikers are arseholes to be kept away from everyone else.

If you don't fight crap like:

E-bikers are going at speed, which can be addictive, making the riders more reckless.

and:

It’s a little like bringing motorbikes into the woods

from Day One, you lose.

 

[boBE]

IMBA can support and encourage eMTBs (class 1) as mountain bikes or go down the path of other groups that don't see the future. The local IMBA chapter is sponsored by the LBS who are selling every eMTB they can get. e is the future of recreational cycling, the manufacturers and the buying public will demand equal access to trails.

 

[Stihldog]

Banff national parks has made the decision to limit eMTB access in tue park to four trails.

Well then Banff is off our list. My wife, my daughter, my son in-law, my Neibour, my 3 other Neibour's and likely many others will not be going to Banff.

 

[Canmore TLCC 29]

I have spoken with multiple bike shops about this and have yet to find any lobbying for eMTB’s. Bow Cycle said they are doing something but so far I cannot find anyone putting together a group to make our desire to ride in Banff known. For now I can get with my representatives in government.

 

[thewrx]

Would you rather have access to all trails at 25kph or limited access to trails at 32kph. I would prefer access to all trails even if it meant an even slower speed. If I wanted speed I'd buy a motorbike. I just want some assist up steep hills that I normally wouldn't make without stopping on a non ebike.

I think that those are 2 different problems for 2 different reasons and can't be compared or contrasted as such.

Manufacturer required speed restrictions are dumb, they should just limit the pwr unit size or output, and whatever speed is possible within physical limits is what it is.

Access to trails should be based on environmental impact and the cotribution of the people that use them; similar to how we manage hunting/fishing/atv licenses.

imo

 

[OldGoatMTB]

Getting tourism interests on our side might accelerate the process of opening up all bike trails for ebikes.

 

[KeithR]

Would you rather have access to all trails at 25kph or limited access to trails at 32kph.

Yeah, but access is being lost for the 25 kph riders anyway.

 

[KeithR]

Dry your eyes

Great contribution...

 

[flash]

In Australia we basically follow the EU with all the rules regarding the class and usage of electric bikes. Same as we do for vehicle emissions and many other vehicle regulations. We're years behind on road cycling though. So we have class 1 bikes allowed where any bike is allowed at 25kmh assistance.

Where I ride there is a huge variety of riders. Especially in these uncertain times we've got more new riders than ever. Every rider I passed yesterday was aa newbie and included parents with kids. Although in the past I have had my bike changed to 32kmh, I have changed it back because I think I need to respect that our trails have all types of rider on them and a sensible speed limit is appropriate. Yes, I get over the limit quite often any way but under my own steam I feel like I'll be able to stop slightly faster and avoid any motor over run that might cause issues. And honestly, I just felt like a dick for doing it. Like I was going to ruin it for everybody because I was too special to play within the rules.

I have just as much fun at 25kmh limit as I do at 32.

Every country is a bit different. Where I am we have embraced e-Bikes. The shops sell them. The trails support us and there's heaps of them. I see about 20%-30% of bikes being assisted where we ride. And growing. I don't want unrestricted bikes on our MTB trails.

However I see that bikes that are faster or more power have a place. It's just that we need to be sensible about where. I think that if you want to organise a high powered trail then go for it. Even downhill and enduro trails might be suitable (not a downhill rider tho). Private bike parks and large centres should be allowed to provide these facilities.

But it requires riders to follow the rules. A class three bike just shouldn't be on a family loop and unfortunately some riders don't get that.

I really feel for those that have access issues. Super fit, skinny lycra clad cross country kids pass me all the time on their 8kg bikes. My bike and rider just aren't any different on our trails as long as I'm not an arsehole and realise I need to share.

Surely in the US there's an argument for the sensible use of eBikes based on access to all. Over here you just need to think the words "disabled access" and things change. Some of our riding friends NEED an eBike to be able to ride. Surely you guys can argue that stopping eBikes is discriminatory. But I also think you need to really work on being actively within the regulations and vocally oppose unrestricted bikes on public trails. Otherwise you'll all be heaped in the same *dangerous* pile and you'll never get to ride.

Gordon

p.s. and if you really need a faster bike on your local trails, maybe, instead of a faster bike you really need harder trails?

 

[Philpug]

Banff national parks has made the decision to limit eMTB access in tue park to four trails.

View attachment 36587

Once this happens, to turn it around is very difficult.

 

[Philpug]

IMBA can support and encourage eMTBs (class 1) as mountain bikes or go down the path of other groups that don't see the future. The local IMBA chapter is sponsored by the LBS who are selling every eMTB they can get. e is the future of recreational cycling, the manufacturers and the buying public will demand equal access to trails.

Right now we are not seeing the support from IMBA, that has to change.

eMTB Education | IMBA

As cycling technologies evolve, it is important for IMBA to continue to examine and/or clarify access policies for new uses, such as Class 1 eMTBs.

www.imba.com

I will add, the brands are not helping the cause with advertising how fast their bikes are. That is not the nessage to send.

 

[Pdoz]

I will add, the brands are not helping the cause with advertising how fast their bikes are. That is not the nessage to send.

If you see evidence of this, feedback your concerns to the brand.

Most of the big brand emtb adds I've seen focus on smiling up hill. The down hill images are much milder than what oldbike adverts show.

 

[KeithR]

Most of the big brand emtb adds I've seen focus on smiling up hill. The down hill images are much milder than what old bike adverts show.

There's an galling irony there too.

Before I'd had enough of the site, I got into a number of - let's call them frank discussions - about the BS meme that e-bikes chop up the trails - which of course results in bans and trail closures (which e-bikes, by logical extension, "deserved").

Pointing them at images like this - a downhiller in full "roost" mode:

as the real cause of knackered trails (I know that horses, motorbikes and ATVs all play a part, but this was mountain biker vs. mountain biker) just sent them into denial mode.

But - again - as long as it's easier to blame e-bikes than take personal responsibility; and as long as e-bikers insist on being a silent minority, it's going to keep happening.

 

[OldGoatMTB]

Here in the US we mostly blame people riding on wet trails, but I understand that's kind of a sacrament in the U.K.

 

[Canmore TLCC 29]

FYI, the Banff National Parks sign stated eBikes, "need to generate 500 watts or less. ?

 

[urastus]

Motorised vehicles currently have access to about 2.5% of the unpaved network, cycles share 20% with horses. Ramblers have 100% but would still like to see other users share reduced further.

Yes, we're all getting intolerant of each other. I assume it's our increasing numbers and competition for everything, but who knows. It's strange, you'd think that we as a group (emtb) with our freedoms questioned, and ridicule from some non emtb riders, we'd be more tolerant ourselves. Some of us aren't ; our attitude toward e scooters for example I would have thought that we'd be different. Ahh, humanity

 

[Rusty]

As a long time trail builder & maintainer I was initially a bit hesitant to say yes to eMTB on my trails. This was very much reinforced by parents bringing their kids down to the park on various pit bikes - electric & petrol powered as well as the first few eMTB I came across being quite high powered with throttle as well as pedals. Also a few early electric MX bikes like the ZeroFX, Sur Ron were kicked off my trails after ripping the place up. Once I had a chance to observe several eMTB 5 years ago or so and had a ride my thoughts changed quite a bit.
Initially I was thinking maybe only on the dual-purpose trails and such they would be OK but after hiring a couple different bikes and riding them on a range of trails my opinion is that anywhere a MTB is allowed to go a pedaltech type eMTB should be allowed.

As @KeithR pointed out - I too have seen far more damage done by groms oh DH or DJ bikes than by eMTB.