Almost done with pedals hitting things

[Tim69]

Dude, just change to 140mm cranks.

I have been riding this length for over 6 months now and guess what?

Virtually no more pedal strikes

I started on 150mm and thought.... I wonder if I can go shorter?

Tried the 1mm and I am more than happy with them.
Yes, you will get loads of people on here saying it’s the wrong thing to do but it works for me

It may work for you too

You will never know until you try them

For less than £20 delivered in the UK (It may cost a bit more to deliver to you in Belgium) what have you got to lose?

I will post the links to the cranks and the self extracting bolts later on for you.

I have been thinking of buying some since I got my bike.. just wanted to give myself a chance to try and get used to it, maybe adjust to it... Hasn't happened yet..? anyway was all set to buy some when I saw a YouTube video on the subject, and somethings they said there worried me:
A. That your cadence increases..not that its such a bad thing..
B. That your standing " platform" when you stand on the bike, like going downhill is shorter and it reduces your stability.. this worried me.
What is your experience on these two points? Would love to know as I know you are know for promoting the use of shorter cranks... 140mm! Wow! That is extreme.. I was considering the 152s for my kenevo...
Thanks
Tim

 

[Kiwi in Wales]

I have been thinking of buying some since I got my bike.. just wanted to give myself a chance to try and get used to it, maybe adjust to it... Hasn't happened yet..? anyway was all set to buy some when I saw a YouTube video on the subject, and somethings they said there worried me:
A. That your cadence increases..not that its such a bad thing..
B. That your standing " platform" when you stand on the bike, like going downhill is shorter and it reduces your stability.. this worried me.
What is your experience on these two points? Would love to know as I know you are know for promoting the use of shorter cranks... 140mm! Wow! That is extreme.. I was considering the 152s for my kenevo...
Thanks
Tim

Hey Tim,
I see you have a Specialized, I presume it’s a Levo? Is that correct?
If yes, do you use Blevo? If you like ride stats get it. Motor temp, battery temp, motor power, biker power, cadence, etc, etc, how many shits you had last week and the week before ?

Info taken from a snap shot of 10 rides using Blevo on cadence
My max cadence is between 140-150
Average cadence is 70-80

I ride with flats so my feet positioning will vary depending on the my personal preference and the terrain I am riding.

Have I had any stability issues with a smaller/shorter platform to stand on when going downhill or riding technical uphill?
Nope. It’s an inch difference at each end if you currently use 165’s the platform length reduces from 330mm to 280mm. Measure this out using a tape measure on the floor if you wish to see what it feels like. Most of the people who ride my bike for the first time don’t even notice my short cranks and like anything, your body just adapts.

Do I have trouble keeping up with other ebikers when they start mashing down on their pedals attached to long crank arms (170-160)?
Nope.

Like I said, these work for me in the terrain I ride, they may not work for you but how will you know unless you actually try them?

For a layout of around £20 just try them dude. What have you got to lose?

 

[Tim69]

Hey Tim,
I see you have a Specialized, I presume it’s a Levo? Is that correct?
If yes, do you use Blevo? If you like ride stats get it. Motor temp, battery temp, motor power, biker power, cadence, etc, etc, how many shits you had last week and the week before ?

Info taken from a snap shot of 10 rides using Blevo on cadence
My max cadence is between 140-150
Average cadence is 70-80

I ride with flats so my feet positioning will vary depending on the my personal preference and the terrain I am riding.

Have I had any stability issues with a smaller/shorter platform to stand on when going downhill or riding technical uphill?
Nope. It’s an inch difference at each end if you currently use 165’s the platform length reduces from 330mm to 280mm. Measure this out using a tape measure on the floor if you wish to see what it feels like. Most of the people who ride my bike for the first time don’t even notice my short cranks and like anything, your body just adapts.

Do I have trouble keeping up with other ebikers when they start mashing down on their pedals attached to long crank arms (170-160)?
Nope.

Like I said, these work for me in the terrain I ride, they may not work for you but how will you know unless you actually try them?

For a layout of around £20 just try them dude. What have you got to lose?

Thanks so much, for your reply and info!
I ride a kenevo (flat pedals) and like riding tight techy trails and fast downhill sections too.. so if this could help me there! It's worth a Try! Especially at that price.. the ones I priced were much more expensive! Hence my hesitance...
And yes of course! I use BLevo!!? Best thing ever? after using it.. can't see riding without it!
Thanks!
Tim

 

[Kiwi in Wales]

Thanks so much, for your reply and info!
I ride a kenevo (flat pedals) and like riding tight techy trails and fast downhill sections too.. so if this could help me there! It's worth a Try! Especially at that price.. the ones I priced were much more expensive! Hence my hesitance...
And yes of course! I use BLevo!!? Best thing ever? after using it.. can't see riding without it!
Thanks!
Tim

?

 

[Eckythump]

B. That your standing " platform" when you stand on the bike, like going downhill is shorter and it reduces your stability.. this worried me.

Thanks
Tim

Generally when you are riding downhill you freewheel and your cranks/pedals are level (there are exceptions, berms etc). So there should be virtually no difference in this regard.

 

[Slowroller]

Footpegs. Problem solved.

 

[Gary]

Generally when you are riding downhill you freewheel and your cranks/pedals are level (there are exceptions, berms etc). So there should be virtually no difference in this regard.

Au contraire!
try standing feet together and taking a punch.
now pick yourself up and try standing feet apart to take the next punch.

Bet you didn't fall over the second time.

The main real negative of really short cranks is the decrease in stability/grip when cornering loose or cambered corners outside foot down. (for me personally I'd never run shorter cranks simply because I ride non-Ebikes more than Ebikes and prefer to stay with a crank length of 165-170mm on all my bikes)
Berms only really require the outside pedal to be lowered to create more cornering grip if the berm is poorly designed, in poor condition, slippy or the rider is not using the berm correctly.

 

[Eckythump]

Yeah it really causes the MX guys an issue having their feet close together fore/aft.
You sound like the kind of guy who has been on the receiving end of their fair share of punches so I’ll bow down to tour no doubt extensive experience on that front.
However, when riding a bike consider you are leaning on you arms spread wide, 3 feet in front of you, your feet being 20-40mm closer together will not make an earth shattering difference.
I mean there is an argument your weight is centred more effectively within the wheelbase with shorter cranks.

Pretty sure I wrote berms are an exception but I guess in your haste to be a pedant you missed that......

Surprised with the size of your gargantuan heed any length of cranks would have the slightest effect on your CoG......

Oh and by the way don’t you mentalist downhiller dirt jumper types go for those nice short 160/165mm cranks, wonder why

I await with eager anticipation the upcoming drivel.........

 

[R120]

TBH the whole concept of how much these differences effect you comes down to your skill level as a rider - the paradox being that a top rider will notice small adjustments of set up, and be able to maximise any gains from them, which most of us will not, yet the very same riders are the ones who can get on pretty much any bike and still shred it way better than most of us.

One of the key differences between MX and MTB is the Q-Factor/stance width, on an MX bike you are in a fairly wide and planted stance that allow you to spread your weight, whereas you are on a narrow stance on an MTB , and rely on the pedal platform to create a base. Of course the fact that you are also pedalling said bike throws a whole other load of issues into the mix.

It is very subtle but the advantage of having a slightly bigger platform is the ability to shift and plant your weight about better. Its not so noticeable on park/dirt jump riding because the whole aim is too ride and land on good transitions, which if pulled off correctly is more about flow and has very little impact on you or the bike, on natural terrain where you and the bike are being bumped about and hitting drops etc to flatter landings is where the larger platform will be of benefit.

The easiest way to see a similar effect is to ride with your feet out over the edges of your pedals, and you will see how much force you can drive thought the bike in corners, but of course the downside is peddling will feel unnatural, and you are highly likely to smack you feet into the ground.

 

[Gary]

Yeah it really causes the MX guys an issue having their feet close together fore/aft.

You don't control an MX bike anything like you do when riding a mountainbike.
Foot positioning on a mtb is massive part of control

on an MX bike pegs are just fixed standing points with a brake and gear selector to worry about.
the bike weighs a shit ton more and slight variance in just foot position has little to no effect on stability or handling. (I'm talking riding both feet on)

I hate when someone brings motorcycle riding technique into a mtb discussion. They're really very different.

STOP IT NAO, eh?

 

[Gary]

However, when riding a bike consider you are leaning on you arms

Try not doing that so much.
Try using your core more and only weight the bars when you require added grip.

All them punches help with core strength too

 

[Gary]

My 2018 Esommet had 170mm E8000 cranks
(the 2019 came with 165s)

I ride 165mm cranks on my roadbike as they aleviate knee pain without being too short for leverage and allow me to spin very slightly faster.

My mtbs mostly have 165mm saints
but my lowest bike (and it is really low) has 170mm Race Face turbines

 

[Eckythump]

I hate when someone brings motorcycle riding technique into a mtb discussion. They're really very different.

STOP IT NAO, eh?

And taking a punch on a boozy Friday night is so attuned to emtb control than MX how??

What’s happened to all the diagrams, pictures and old war stories??? I was expecting at least a good dollop of trigonometry.......

‘Heed, drawings, NOOOOW!’

 

[Eckythump]

Try not doing that so much.
Try using your core more and only weight the bars when you require added grip.

All them punches help with core strength too

Pies is all the core strength training I require.

 

[Eckythump]

My 2018 Esommet had 170mm E8000 cranks
(the 2019 came with 165s)

I ride 165mm cranks on my roadbike as they aleviate knee pain without being too short for leverage and allow me to spin very slightly faster.

My mtbs mostly have 165mm saints
but my lowest bike (and it is really low) has 170mm Race Face turbines

I like to run at least 185mm cranks on my chopper as it helps lift the bike over those pesky speed bumps without having to take a break from pedalling.

 

[Gary]

Here ya go ECKY...

 

[Eckythump]

Here ya go ECKY...

You are missing the coefficient of bollox from the right hand side of the graph.

 

[Gary]

 

[Eckythump]

 

[Lee Dove]

Har, another one assuming things sight unseen (I've probably been riding since long before you were born, so I think I know where my pedals are, thank you).
Never let the facts get in the way:
Bottom Bracked height:
Levo Turbo 342
Kenovo 350
Haibike Xduro 343

KTM... 322

Why post if all you are going to do is slag people who have constructive comments. Looks like you bought the wrong bike, did someone else make you buy it ?

 

[Russell]

I found 152 cranks reduced pedal strike a bit and made no noticeable reduction in stability. Cadence does go up but bobbing on saddle is reduced probably because of reduced leg travel. Ohlins forks set up for my weight also helped a little bit

 

[Slowroller]

 

[HORSPWR]

Miranda (KTM-branded). The most outwards point of the Flat Pedal hit a hidden root, just about when the cranckarm was perfectly aligned towards it, hence the bent.

(As suggested, I perhaps should have scouted the trail before really engaging through it, but it would have been a bummer having to walk the complete 100km Mill Man Trail)

I wouldn't walk it either but for me the odd pedal strike is part of the game, they happen and if I happen to bend or break something then I get my wallet out and splash out on something better or stronger. It's part and parcel of riding any MTB.

 

[estoril]

@Kiwi in Wales that's a great price for those parts, going to order some to try out and if I don't like them they can serve as spares!

 

[RickBullotta]

I got ride of my KTM Kapoho eMTB and replaced it with a Pivot Shuttle (proper BB height) after smashing everything on our very rocky and rooty trails. That said, I think that the combination of a slightly longer rear shock and/or a reworked linkage, along with a headset spacer and/or longer travel fork, could get you another 15-20mm. A creative machinist could probably sell quite a few of a tweaked linkage.

 

[jerry]

Good call!
I'm still holding on on the Kapoho for the time being. Glad I didn't upgrade to the current model, which is only aesthetically more appealing, but has same BB height/geometry.
Next years' model seems to have adressed the issue - though I'd need to consider the cost vs that of the new Cannondales, YT and the likes. KTM used to be fair value for money, but their new top-end models are priced as high as any premium brands - EUR 10K...

 

[RickBullotta]

So the guy who bought my older Kapoho Macina tried out my suggestions: 160mm cranks and a 17mm thick crown race/spacer. Those tweaks worked really well. Lifted the BB a bit, shorter cranks reduce pedal strikes, and the bike actually handled a bit better after being slacked out a little more thanks to the spacer.