Almost done with pedals hitting things

[jerry]

Last week bent the left crank arm when hitting some grass-hidden root... left the arm bent to the inside - to a degree that I could not spin the pedals round any longer. Wasn't even while shocks being compressed.

I'm starting to get really sick of this.... even after:
- changed regular crancks to 160mm
- filled the rear shock with spacers
- rear shock to max. allowed PSI (min. possible sag)
- front shock also to 10% sag, in hopes to keep bottom bracket higher...
- tires to 2 bar
- lost 10kg of weight

and still this happens several times on each ride.... never had this with a analog fully with normal-lenght cranck arms.

Together with the Tandem-like agility (Half a meter chainstays)....thinking of abandoning KTM...

 

[Gary]

Have you tried fitting a different rider?

 

[jerry]

Have you tried fitting a different rider?

Have you tried therapy?

 

[Gary]

therapy?

Yes!

 

[Tim69]

Last week bent the left crank arm when hitting some grass-hidden root... left the arm bent to the inside - to a degree that I could not spin the pedals round any longer. Wasn't even while shocks being compressed.

I'm starting to get really sick of this.... even after:
- changed regular crancks to 160mm
- filled the rear shock with spacers
- rear shock to max. allowed PSI (min. possible sag)
- front shock also to 10% sag, in hopes to keep bottom bracket higher...
- tires to 2 bar
- lost 10kg of weight

and still this happens several times on each ride.... never had this with a analog fully with normal-lenght cranck arms.

Together with the Tandem-like agility (Half a meter chainstays)....thinking of abandoning KTM...

View attachment 13523

I totally feel for you!
I don't recall ever having any issues with pedal strikes on my analog trail bike..with 175mm cranks! But on my kenevo.. constantly getting them. And it's made me verry! Apprehensive of it...annoying to have to think constantly about where your pedals are..it's probably the one (and almost the only) down side to my Ebike!
Thinking of switching to 152s...
But too short a crank has it's downsides too...?
So still undecided.
Tim

 

[billwarwick]

Yes, but think of the weight saving, with all that metal missing!
Silver lining and all that?

 

[jerry]

There's one final think I'm going to try (reluctantly) - that is moving back to clipless. The hit that bent my crank arm was on the outside of the flat pedal. So, perhaps having clip-ins reduces those odds..

 

[Gary]

annoying to have to think constantly about where your pedals are

 

[Pdoz]

My next theory on this ( excuse? ) is I'm going relatively faster when pedalling on the ebike so it took me a while to adapt my brain, perhaps add in needing to concentrate less on spinning those cranks because it's relatively easy? I'm grappling a bit here , trying to explain why I stopped hitting things after about 3 months - I'd previously thought it was adapting to the q factor but you guys tell me that's bs ? Either way, STOP changing things - give your brain a chance to learn the bike?

 

[jerry]

I suppose you can't teach an old dog new tricks... been e-biking for several years already... no improvement

 

[Gary]

My next theory on this ( excuse? ) is I'm going relatively faster when pedalling on the ebike so it took me a while to adapt my brain, perhaps add in needing to concentrate less on spinning those cranks because it's relatively easy? I'm grappling a bit here , trying to explain why I stopped hitting things after about 3 months - I'd previously thought it was adapting to the q factor but you guys tell me that's bs ? Either way, STOP changing things - give your brain a chance to learn the bike?

It's not really a theory mate. it's a fact. You've hit the nail squarely on the head!
You ARE aproaching things faster on an emtb (especially uphill).
it's no different to learning good foot positioning/pedal placement when you progress to becoming a faster descender on a non-Ebike. The only difference is the extra speed (less time to react) comes instantly from the motor.
If you can't get the hang of pedal placement, pedal stroke timing and obsticle avoidance. Slow the fuck down until you do.
Also... with a motor you don't need to do full pedal strokes all the time to gain speed. Ratcheting works to maintain and gain speed and is way more efficient than on a non ebike.
Also WHY the hell do Ebikers blame hidden obsticles in long grass etc?
Stop pedalling if you think there might be something hidden in long grass. and if you really want to pedal through it. Have a proper look. (ie' walk the section). it's common sense.
also learn to pump the terrain. This not only helps you get speed for free but it also teaches you to read the terrain ahead and eventually you'll become a boss at hitting trails blind

Q factor and crank length/BB height are all bollocks excuses on Emtbs.
No Ebike has a properly low BB
165/170mm cranks are already short.
Q factors are relatively normal.
Flat pedal bodies are rarely too wide/thick (if you have adult sized feet)

Badly set up/poorly damped/sprung suspension can actually be a factor. But it's extremely rare to find poor quality suspension products on mid drive Emtb so that mostly leaves poor set-up. There's a sticky at the top of the general emtb forum that should help anyone struggling with a shock/fork they're finding blows through it's travel too easily.
here
Suspension set-up guides and info - EMTB Forums

 

[jerry]

Guess every forum has to have an arrogant know-it-all….

 

[steve_sordy]

Guess every forum has to have an arrogant know-it-all….

He doesn't know 100% but he's pretty close.

 

[Gary]

Guess every forum has to have an arrogant know-it-all….

Yeah Jerry. How arrogant and mean of me to take the time to explain many of the reasons contributing to you hitting your pedals/cranks more on your Ebike than you did in the past on bikes with no motor.
Please accept my most humble apolgies
What I should have said was:

Yes. Mate. It's entirely down to your KTM Ebike.
Burn it to death!

 

[jerry]

Your arrogance stems from the de-facto assumption that anyone else (but you) must be ignorant of those issues you so helpfully point out.

(We'll not even touch upon the fact that some of those reasonings are plain stupid as well (scouting half a mile of grasslands on foot to find roots???)- but you're obviously incapable of even considering that. That's actually not arrogance - that's narcissism.

But - I won't give you further opportunities for self-gratification - find someone who cares to listen to you.

 

[Gary]

I've track walked/inspected hundreds of miles of singletrack/mtb trails over the years.
Half a mile is nothing. The last trail I built single handedly wasn't far off that length and I could tell you every single root/stump/log/rock/compression/rut along it's entire length.
The only stupidity here is pedalling blindly through root/stump/debris infested long grass without a clue what's hidden in it.
Like I said. Ride overgrown sections slowly to inspect/recce them before pedalling like a spanner through them and bending your cranks every other week. surely It's not that difficult to understand why.
or do you need reminded?

*sigh*

 

[Donnie797]

It's obvious you don't wanna hear it, but why do you blame your bike if the reason you get pedal strikes is you not knowing where your pedals are? How do you think all the pro riders on their e-MTBs can shred the wildest trails? Either learn that skill or switch to a 29er, or another bike with a higher bottom bracket.

 

[jerry]

Har, another one assuming things sight unseen (I've probably been riding since long before you were born, so I think I know where my pedals are, thank you).
Never let the facts get in the way:
Bottom Bracked height:
Levo Turbo 342
Kenovo 350
Haibike Xduro 343

KTM... 322

 

[jerry]

What’s the future of MTB geometry?
As for the “lower” part of the equation, we’re already reaching the limits. For a mid-travel trail bike, something around the 335mm mark is about as low as you can reasonably go without pedal strikes becoming unacceptably hard to avoid.

 

[Donnie797]

Har, another one assuming things sight unseen (I've probably been riding since long before you were born, so I think I know where my pedals are, thank you).
Never let the facts get in the way:
Bottom Bracked height:
Levo Turbo 342
Kenovo 350
Haibike Xduro 343

KTM... 322

So then you probably should update your ancient pedal awareness and terrain reading software to the newer "e"-version

You chose a bike with the "lowest of all" bottom brackets and "longest of all" chainstays and now you complain about pedal strikes and lame agility? Haven't you learned about important bike geometries in all those many years of biking?

Yeah, dismiss the KTM and get another bike, but choose more wise next time.

 

[Gary]

Har, another one assuming things sight unseen (I've probably been riding since long before you were born, so I think I know where my pedals are, thank you).
Never let the facts get in the way:
Bottom Bracked height:
Levo Turbo 342
Kenovo 350
Haibike Xduro 343

KTM... 322

If its the KTM I think it is It has 25-50mm less travel than all of the bikes you're comparing it to.
So should actually have a higher bottomed out BB height.

My Emtb has a 327mm BB height and 170mm /160mm travel.
and I don't get pedal strikes with 170mm cranks.
Sorry mate the issue is the rider not the bik regardless of how long he's been riding.

By all means have a tantrum and throw the bike in the sea.
Just be sure to film it.

 

[jerry]

And yet another uninformed (and incorrect) assumption. At least you're consistent in dumb ignorance.

 

[MattyB]

 

[R120]

Jerry they are just trying to help, and one of the guys offering you advice happens to have over two decades worth of experience in the industry and top level DH racing.

The simple fact is that there is no reason to be having excessive pedal strikes on your bike unless there is something very wrong with the set up, or your technique needs modifying, or the bike itself is not designed for the riding you are doing.

This is not a critique of you as a rider, it took me a good six months (and I ride about 60miles minimum a week) to nail down adjusting my pedalling style to the level where I can now read terrain on my EMTB without thinking about it to take into account avoiding pedal strikes. I have 160mm cranks, and whilst they help technique is the real answer.

And knowing your terrain really helps - I ride many trails over and over, and walk them, so that I can know the feel and flow of the terrain - if I still get a pedal strike it will always be when riding something technical for the first time.

 

[StevenM]

Not much more I can add

 

[dirt huffer]

Holy crap! You bent a crankarm just pedaling around. (LoL) What brand is that?

 

[jerry]

Holy crap! You bent a crankarm just pedaling around. (LoL) What brand is that?

Miranda (KTM-branded). The most outwards point of the Flat Pedal hit a hidden root, just about when the cranckarm was perfectly aligned towards it, hence the bent.

(As suggested, I perhaps should have scouted the trail before really engaging through it, but it would have been a bummer having to walk the complete 100km Mill Man Trail)

 

[jerry]

Jerry they are just trying to help, and one of the guys offering you advice happens to have over two decades worth of experience in the industry and top level DH racing.

Yeah, and seemingly needing this forum predominantly to showcase his unchallengeable superiority, and by being condescending to anyone not in awe.

But - thank you for your helpful comments, a relief so see someone reacting normally.

 

[Kiwi in Wales]

Dude, just change to 140mm cranks.

I have been riding this length for over 6 months now and guess what?

Virtually no more pedal strikes

I started on 150mm and thought.... I wonder if I can go shorter?

Tried the 140mm and I am more than happy with them.
Yes, you will get loads of people on here saying it’s the wrong thing to do but it works for me

It may work for you too

You will never know until you try them

For less than £20 delivered in the UK (It may cost a bit more to deliver to you in Belgium) what have you got to lose?

I will post the links to the cranks and the self extracting bolts later on for you.

 

[Kiwi in Wales]

Not sure if your cranks are the ISIS fitting?
If they are you are good to go
£14.99
I have these on my 2019 and 2107 Levos
Indy ISIS Freestyle Splined Cranks - 140mm - Pair -

And here is the link for the self extracting bolts £3.99
Self-Extracting Splined Crank Bolts Pair M15 - Black or Red (Pack of 2) | eBay