Alloy vs Carbon rims for eMTB

[RickBullotta]

I've never had to true a carbon rimmed wheel, ever. Can't say the same of aluminum rims.

 

[Stihldog]

I can see you aren't a flashy guy. Lol.

Oh those aren’t my wheels! The colour for the spokes are applied just before tensioning with a paint-pen. The liquid colour seeps into the Berd braids. I understand that the spokes need to rest for a few days before the final spoke tension.

I don’t know how the spokes could keep this colour (yellow) after a few rides. I would also have to avoid any ninja ambushes.

Those wheels are for Dale Stone. (sponsored by IMBY) A YouTube sensation who rides here. I happened to be at the LBS when he arrived to pick them up. Those are friggen lite.…and expensive.

 

[vman]

The way a carbon wheel feels while riding an eMTB, its durability (hubs, spokes, rim) , warranty, and then weight are factors to consider when choosing a carbon wheelset for ebikes. Weight is the last decision factor as it is way less important than the other factors to us in an EMTB use.

Both my wife and I have found that a good set of wheels is as important an upgrade to an ebike as it is to a road bike - it is transformative. We have considered paying up for a higher quality AL rim set but given the AL rim dent issues and the superior warranties that usual come with carbon wheels we have either stuck to cheap AL rim sets or paid up for the carbon wheelset.

There are some carbon wheels that are overly stiff but most modern wheels are tuned properly to balance compliance with stiffness - We have used "enduro" category wheels and have not tried to put an XC wheelset on a 50 lb ebike or felt the need to get the more heavily built ebike specific wheelset. We are currently using Race Face Next R 31, Bontrager Line Pro 30 and DT Swiss EXC 1501's and they have all been great so far. Note - On the short list would be the Santa Cruz reserve or WTB carbon wheels which I have some friends on and have heard good things about.

As far as use case, we are in the Bay Area as well at CAT 2 - so lots of time spent on MT TAM, MC Headlands, or up in Lake Tahoe - ie. lots of loose over hard conditions with plenty of nasty rock gardens- where the carbon wheels have proven to have the right amount of compliance and stiffness to make them a meaningful upgrade to the AL wheels that came with the bike.

V

 

[Evelhornet]

I bought a Giant Reign e+0 last year, came with carbon wheels as standard. Both wheels cracked within the first year. One from a fairly small off, don't even know what the wheel hit, (other then the floor)and the other cracked a few months later after coming down a local rough trail and what felt like a loose rock bouncing off the rim. I dont ride fast (too old for that!) and my tyre pressures are always checked. Will never trust carbon rims again. Too expensive to replace and Giant weren't interested in a warranty claim - said they must have been damaged in a big crash!! Bought a set of Hope wheels which have now had 10 x more abuse and are performing perfectly.

 

[steve_sordy]

That’s a rear (including XD driver). Here’s the front - even lighter.

1735g for the pair. Exactly as specified on the i9 website!

That is light! That is also a very small hub.

 

[timcking]

Hello...Do you prefer AIum. or Carbon rims for eMTB? Are carbon rims worth the extra $$$? What's your justification?

I searched and found Alum rims are easily dent and some people prefer them because they are more flexible. Carbon, on the other hand, are stiffer and stay true for much longer.

My background in road riding doesn't provide me with an insight when it comes to eMTB (Carbon all the way for road). I'm close to buying an eMTB. This will be my first MTB and first e as well. I plan to start out easy by riding eMTB on local fire roads and smoother trails first before progressing to more rocky trails.

I searched this forum too and was surprised I didn't find an existing discussion on this topic.

Appreciate your thoughts. Thanks.

Some things to consider. First, what what benefit(s) are you looking for in carbon vs. alloy wheels? If it's primarily weight; if so, what's percent weight of the wheel difference relative to the eMTB are you looking at? Second, if wheel damage is a consideration, remember many eMTBs utilize plus-size tires which are inherently less prone to damaging a wheel. And third, unless you're racing, the efficiency gained by carbon wheels is relatively insignificant. Think about your road bike which weighs 15lbs relative to the wheel weight savings. Now consider a typical eMTB which weighs 50lbs or so. Is the added cost worth it? Only you can decide.

 

[Onetime]

Berd spokes, carbon rims.
View attachment 127269
$$$$

Me too! 1,520g for the set.

 

[p3eps]

That is light! That is also a very small hub.

An i9 Hydra

 

[Cat Guy]

Have you seen Danny Mac testing the Reserve carbon rims to destruction? If not watch this!

Yes, I've seen this one. Crazy, isn't it? Takes a heck of a lot to taco them.

 

[Cat Guy]

and have you seen this?

The "push test" at ~4:20 is very telling. Great video.

 

[Cat Guy]

There are loads of different grades of carbon, specifically designed for different purposes.

I’ve just bought some Industry Nine EN 325 rims - which are designed for Enduro / Aggressive riding. A perfect pairing for my Levo SL.
i9 do a GR series which is designed for downhill and e-bikes. There’s also some super light trail rims. They have a whole selection of MTB rims in carbon designed for different purposes.

That’s one manufacturer. If you went through all the wheel manufacturers, there will be lots of carbon rims specifically designed for e-bike use and different disciplines. They’ll be more expensive than their alloy counterparts, and probably a good bit lighter.

The choice is yours. If you have extra cash that you’re willing to spend, I’d go with carbon wheels that are suitable for your application. They’ll last years without adjustment, and generally come with a lifetime warranty. If your conscious of the cost, then get alloy

Thanks for the info. Since this isn't just my first eMTB, but first MTB as well, I'll stay with the stock Al for now. I don't know at this point if I'll stick with the sport after 3-6 months, much less knowing the discipline of MTB to which I'd be attracted. One step at a time.

 

[Cat Guy]

I have Mavic carbon rims on my Hiabike Xduro 10 downhill bike, they were fitted with tubless, but I struck a rock on a knarly decent and it caused a leak through the carbon which I couldnt fix so had to fit a tube. On the aluminim rims on my other bike they just take a bit of a dent but the wheels keep going so I would put to you. If your doing a lot of uphill fell typoe riding and want to save weight, and day long trails then its probably worth it, however if you ride for around 11/2 to 2 hours like I do on knarly trails with lots of lose rocks and do some downhill then stick with aluminum due to the durability. I would swap my wheels around between my bikes but the Cannondale is 29" on both and the Hiabike is 27.5 on both.

View attachment 127283 View attachment 127284 View attachment 127285 View attachment 127286

Makes sense. Thanks. Never seen a droopy saddle nose like

I have Mavic carbon rims on my Hiabike Xduro 10 downhill bike, they were fitted with tubless, but I struck a rock on a knarly decent and it caused a leak through the carbon which I couldnt fix so had to fit a tube. On the aluminim rims on my other bike they just take a bit of a dent but the wheels keep going so I would put to you. If your doing a lot of uphill fell typoe riding and want to save weight, and day long trails then its probably worth it, however if you ride for around 11/2 to 2 hours like I do on knarly trails with lots of lose rocks and do some downhill then stick with aluminum due to the durability. I would swap my wheels around between my bikes but the Cannondale is 29" on both and the Hiabike is 27.5 on both.

View attachment 127283 View attachment 127284 View attachment 127285 View attachment 127286

Make sense. Thanks. Never seen a droopy saddle nose like that before (the one on your Hiabike)

 

[Cat Guy]

The way a carbon wheel feels while riding an eMTB, its durability (hubs, spokes, rim) , warranty, and then weight are factors to consider when choosing a carbon wheelset for ebikes. Weight is the last decision factor as it is way less important than the other factors to us in an EMTB use.

Both my wife and I have found that a good set of wheels is as important an upgrade to an ebike as it is to a road bike - it is transformative. We have considered paying up for a higher quality AL rim set but given the AL rim dent issues and the superior warranties that usual come with carbon wheels we have either stuck to cheap AL rim sets or paid up for the carbon wheelset.

There are some carbon wheels that are overly stiff but most modern wheels are tuned properly to balance compliance with stiffness - We have used "enduro" category wheels and have not tried to put an XC wheelset on a 50 lb ebike or felt the need to get the more heavily built ebike specific wheelset. We are currently using Race Face Next R 31, Bontrager Line Pro 30 and DT Swiss EXC 1501's and they have all been great so far. Note - On the short list would be the Santa Cruz reserve or WTB carbon wheels which I have some friends on and have heard good things about.

As far as use case, we are in the Bay Area as well at CAT 2 - so lots of time spent on MT TAM, MC Headlands, or up in Lake Tahoe - ie. lots of loose over hard conditions with plenty of nasty rock gardens- where the carbon wheels have proven to have the right amount of compliance and stiffness to make them a meaningful upgrade to the AL wheels that came with the bike.

V

I've heard good things about Bontrager Line Pro 30 from those that ride Trek, but the one I'm most curious about is the SC Reserves after seeing the MacAskill's "ride down the stairs" clip. Mt. Tam, Marin headlands are great bike or hike.

 

[Cat Guy]

I bought a Giant Reign e+0 last year, came with carbon wheels as standard. Both wheels cracked within the first year. One from a fairly small off, don't even know what the wheel hit, (other then the floor)and the other cracked a few months later after coming down a local rough trail and what felt like a loose rock bouncing off the rim. I dont ride fast (too old for that!) and my tyre pressures are always checked. Will never trust carbon rims again. Too expensive to replace and Giant weren't interested in a warranty claim - said they must have been damaged in a big crash!! Bought a set of Hope wheels which have now had 10 x more abuse and are performing perfectly.

Sorry to hear about Giant warranty. Seems they can effectively deny all of their warranty coverage if they want based on that excuse alone.

 

[Cat Guy]

Some things to consider. First, what what benefit(s) are you looking for in carbon vs. alloy wheels? If it's primarily weight; if so, what's percent weight of the wheel difference relative to the eMTB are you looking at? Second, if wheel damage is a consideration, remember many eMTBs utilize plus-size tires which are inherently less prone to damaging a wheel. And third, unless you're racing, the efficiency gained by carbon wheels is relatively insignificant. Think about your road bike which weighs 15lbs relative to the wheel weight savings. Now consider a typical eMTB which weighs 50lbs or so. Is the added cost worth it? Only you can decide.

I'll start off with Al for now and see how it goes. I agree that the change to Carbon on an eMTB based on weight alone doesn't make sense. Heck, the "Super Light" Levo weighs more than twice my road bike's. I was weighing the other pros and cons of each material and curious what the views are from experience eMTB riders.

 

[donnyrosko]

As some have said this isn't a fair question. Not all carbon wheels are built the same nsor are all alloy. I like alloy for the cost and compliance. Been running a wheel set hard for 2 years and haven't had issues. Spank 359 laced with hydras. Talk to a local, reputable wheel builder after you get a feel for your mtb riding style and get a wheel set built. Having a wheel set built for my bikes has always been a massive improvement to the feel of the bike. Good luck and have fun experimenting!

 

[steve_sordy]

The "push test" at ~4:20 is very telling. Great video.

I'm not at all surprised at the result of the push test. A wheel depends massively on the spokes to deliver stiffness. The spokes are very strong in tension and support the rim.
The key property for stiffness is the Young's Modulus for the material. Carbon fibre has a very high YM, much higher than aluminium. So, no wonder that the alloy rims looked like buckling. But the key feature of the alloy rims is that they are flexible, the opposite of stiff. They will bend without breaking. They also will not shatter when stress levels get too high.

I am not anti-carbon (I have a carbon framed bike), nor am I a particular supporter of alloy. I am in favour of appropriate materials for the job.

 

[Stihldog]

The benefit of carbon components on a mountain bike has a variety of pros and cons. In the unfortunate event of a failure to the component, the consequences, both physically and financially, can be greater than alloy, or other metals.

When we install carbon components on our bike we need to know what to look for and what to listen to. Especially the sound of a failed carbon component. This medium behaves differently than alloy. A failed carbon component needs to be replaced immediately. A barely visible fracture can lead to disastrous results.

I’m probably preaching to the choir here but some of my experience with carbon is with archery. Alloy arrows were for hunting and carbon arrows were for competition. They both behaved differently, were built differently, and used differently. My carbon arrows never bent …they shattered. My alloy arrows never shattered …they bent.

 

[Mrj35]

A lot of people out my way seem to swear by the We Are One Strife wheels. There pretty pricey though. I picked up a pair of spank 359 alloys for a good deal off someone that had them as a spare set. So if these ones blow up I will bite the bullet and spend more money on a wearone rear wheel.

 

[Stihldog]

I’m not sure how I could visually or physically inspect a carbon wheel before a ride. It seems like an arduous task. I suppose any creaking noise coming from my carbon wheel could be a “red-flag”.

Carbon components are going to be part of my biking world. I treat and inspect these parts differently than alloy parts. My bars are OneUp. Cut to width properly and installed using carbon paste. Slightly less torque can be used. Before a ride, or after an impact, I simply give the bar a quick flex. No creak…good to go. If I was to hear a creaking noise I would start checking everything associated to that component.

I’m not ready for carbon wheels …yet.

 

[VWsurfbum]

Just thought I'd post this one as I've just completed it.

 

[militantmandy]

I am almost certain I wouldn't be able to tell the difference

 

[Stihldog]

I am almost certain I wouldn't be able to tell the difference

Yeahhhhh buuuut, I would sure like a set of good carbo rims, i9 Hydra Berd spoke lace ready hubs, Filmore valves and red coloured Berd spokes …just say’n. Cha…Ching $$$$

 

[Montana St Alum]

I've got carbon rimmed Berd wheels and i9 aluminum Trail 270's 24h. They have a very similar feel. The Berds are 250 grams lighter and have about 2500 miles on them in Utah, including lots of Moab riding. Never had to true the Berds, but have had to repair the Trail 270's after pulling a nipple through the rim. I have a Giant carbon wheelset and an aluminum pair but not enough time on them to get an idea of wear. I'd guess aluminum is fine for your application.

 

[KnollyBro]

A lot of people out my way seem to swear by the We Are One Strife wheels. There pretty pricey though. I picked up a pair of spank 359 alloys for a good deal off someone that had them as a spare set. So if these ones blow up I will bite the bullet and spend more money on a wearone rear wheel.

If you are talking about an enduro wheel, then the WeAreOne Convergence is the one you want. The Strife is for full on DH. If you plan on riding for any length of time and are the least bit hard on wheels, the warrantee alone is the main reason to justify the cost of a good set of carbon rims. After using the WeAreOne wheels for the past 18 months, I have never had to touch a spoke and the rims are in excellent condition (a few surface scratches) compared to my previous aluminum wheels (Mavic 729s) which I would have to replace at least one rear wheel a season. Of course there are other variables involved including the use of Cushcore, low tire pressure, EXO+/DD tires, larger wheels and riding less Bike Park but the trails I ride can still be just a hard on wheels. YMMV