All new lighter, 'Brose Drive S Mag' motor announced

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Smaller, lighter Brose motor announced
​

Hot off the heels of Shimano announcing their new E7000 motor today Brose have announced a new smaller, lighter motor. It is 15% smaller than the Drive S Alu and 500 grams lighter due to the magnesium housing. The current Drive S motor is used on the popular Levo and Kenevo, so no doubt these updated Brose motors will make their way into the new bikes, hopefully this year at some point. This could be the first real glimpe we see into an all new Levo.

This smaller, lighter motor has a significantly improved power to weight ratio. Riders will now benefit from an increased maximum power over an even wider cadence range. Brose are positioning this motor for riders who are looking for 'extremely sporty e-mountain biking'. With an instant power output to achieve a more controlled start on steep inclines and an even more agile EMTB riding experience.

Brose also say:
In addition, this drive also features the new "Flex Power Mode". In this riding mode, e-mountain bikers can shift to a combination of torque- and cadence-sensitive support. Brose’s Flex Power Mode combines two new software capabilities – Cadence Power Control (CPC) enabling up to 30% more support at higher cadences and Progressive Pedal Response (PPR) providing a fast drive response when pressure is applied to the pedals. The effect? Instant power output for more agility.

 

[Stumpy]

Oooh, nice! - don't suppose there's any chance to retrofit to existing Levo's..... ?

 

[Donnie797]

WHOA, this is very good news and helps me with my decision of buying my first e-bike ... i wanna see this in the new Levo and then i go and get it

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Oooh, nice! - don't suppose there's any chance to retrofit to existing Levo's..... ?

Not sure, as its smaller.

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

I hope that this is why we havent had any updates to the Levo yet.

 

[Kiwi in Wales]

That looks well tasty!!!! Any photos available of the other side of the motor where everything gets plugged in?

 

[Stumpy]

Oooh, nice! - don't suppose there's any chance to retrofit to existing Levo's..... ?

Not sure, as its smaller.

Although it does look like it has the same mounting holes/brackets

 

[Topov]

It looks like the same motor to me in a magnesium housing, yes lighter by 500g but we ride ebikes most of us can lose 500g by going on a diet lol... The new characteristics are just software and they will become available on the old motor soon as well. Specialized have been working with a 3rd party software company that we all know to get this right

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

It looks like the same motor to me in a magnesium housing, yes lighter by 500g

It is 500g lighter and 15% smaller. Thats pretty significant. Also, power is up from 380% assistance to 410% assistance. So all in, a pretty good upgrade.

 

[drjarvis2003]

I see the water ingress is at ip56 on the new motor, does anyone else know what the present motor is?
I have heard there is still a problem with the currant model leaking.

 

[Kiwi in Wales]

Although it does look like it has the same mounting holes/brackets

Not sure what images you are looking at @Stumpy but the motor mounts are completely different. You cant see all of the 3 engine mounts on the old ALU version but I have put a red arrow on one of them for you. The new motor looks like it has a lot more than 3 mounts.

 

[Kiwi in Wales]

I see the water ingress is at ip56 on the new motor, does anyone else know what the present motor is?
I have heard there is still a problem with the currant model leaking.

The old 1.2 was the same. IP56, so I presume the 1.3 is the same as well.

 

[eFat]

More details here: Brose Drive S Mag 2019: Brose bringt kompakten leichten Motor und neuen Modus – eMTB-News.de

Also about the revival of the Drive T, which could be the Specialized's 1.2E motor?

 

[Donnie797]

awesome! Let me put the translated facts from eMTB-News.de here:

- 500g less motor weight (now 2,9kg)
- Magnesium housing which is (besides of the reduced weight) much better in absorbing heat
- 15% smaller volume
- Two versions regarding the mounts: There will be a "weight-optimized" one with integrated mounts which will allow the frame builders to save up to another 500g on their frames. And there will be a version with drafted mounts.
- Improved service-friendliness with new bundled connections and easy access to those
- Light output voltage is now 12V
- New "Flex Power Mode" that gives up to 410% assistance (maximum was 380% before) and consists of two new software features: The "Cadence Power Control" (CPC) that will give up to 30% more assistance on higher cadences. And the "Progressive Pedal Response" (PPR) for a quicker and more sensible responsiveness resulting in a more agile uphill start up handling and a more lively experience on the trail.
- "Flex Power Mode" will only be available in the new Brose S-Mag motor cause the electronics in the Brose S-Alu can not cope the performance increase on the long run
- No changes on the Brose S-Alu for 2019

 

[Kiwi in Wales]

More details here: Brose Drive S Mag 2019: Brose bringt kompakten leichten Motor und neuen Modus – eMTB-News.de

Also about the revival of the Drive T, which could be the Specialized's 1.2E motor?

Thanks very much eFat this was just the info I needed.

Its a real shame that they have ignored the need to reposition the sockets on the motor to prevent water ingress. Why a sideways insertion? If they had just moved them 45 degrees so the sockets faced down then most of the water ingress issues would disappear due to our very good friend gravity....

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Also about the revival of the Drive T, which could be the Specialized's 1.2E motor?

I think you could be correct ?

 

[R120]

It will be interesting to see what Rotwild do with it, as they have the existing Brose paired up with a 648 integrated battery option on a couple of models.The battery Rotwild use Gives credence to the Specialized bigger battery rumours too.

ROTWILD Integrated Power Unit (IPU)

Ebike mag got 40,24 km / 1001 metres vertical ascent in 1 h 39 min out of the battery in riding fully boost mode!

On test: Rotwild R.C+ Ultra: Timid trail cruiser or an E-bike with stupendous suspension - We find out. – eMTB-News.de

 

[Doomanic]

The battery Rotwild use Gives credence to the Specialized bigger battery rumours too.

Not sure where the link between Rotwild and Spesh is to give credence to any battery rumours. Fantic also use Brose and have a 630Wh battery but they have no links to Spesh either.

The ROTWILD IPU consists of a Brose drive motor and the battery unit developed by us.

 

[R120]

It’s nothing to do with links to Specialized, is just showing that a battery that size is possible to be integrated with current tech into a down tube with the Brose motor

 

[Doomanic]

Yeah, I see your point now you put it like that, but Rotwild, Fantic and Specialized have all integrated the batteries in their own way and I suspect the former two designed with larger packs in mind from day 1 whereas Spesh went for form over function.

 

[Stumpy]

Not sure what images you are looking at @Stumpy but the motor mounts are completely different. You cant see all of the 3 engine mounts on the old ALU version but I have put a red arrow on one of them for you. The new motor looks like it has a lot more than 3 mounts.

@Kiwi in Wales You're right (of course ) - wishful thinking (hoping) on my part I guess! Thanks for explaining it though, much appreciated

 

[Kiwi in Wales]

@Kiwi in Wales You're right (of course ) - wishing thinking (hoping) on my part I guess! Thanks for explaining it though, much appreciated

Believe me, I was getting excited about the exact same thing until I saw the side by side photos ?

 

[ccrdave]

maybe there will be an adapter plate

 

[Donnie797]

 

[Kiwi in Wales]

The best known adaptor plate ever produced!

 

[Carlos Muralhas]

Believe me, I was getting excited about the exact same thing until I saw the side by side photos ?

Not using the same form of attaching to the frame on sucessive generations of motors is a bad move for customers and frame designers alike - unless it really makes real geometry improvments possible . Hope Shimano doesn't also go that route when they anounce a successor to the current E8000 motor.

I know brands expect us to change bikes every 4 years at the most but if we buy a eMTB and the next year a new better lighter motor comes out, it would be great to just be able to replace the motor. The same goes for future lighter and more powerfull batteries.

 

[Donnie797]

Not using the same form of attaching to the frame on sucessive generations of motors is a bad move for customers and frame designers alike - unless it really makes real geometry improvments possible . Hope Shimano doesn't also go that route when they anounce a successor to the current E8000 motor.

I know brands expect us to change bikes every 4 years at the most but if we buy a eMTB and the next year a new better lighter motor comes out, it would be great to just be able to replace the motor. The same goes for future lighter and more powerfull batteries.

full ack. Regarding batteries i have a collegue that has a 6 year old Specialized Turbo S (45km/h e-bike) and they have released that bike with newer batteries over the years, but the new ones (they've doubled the capacity) are still compatible with his old bike and have exactly the same size. We can hope they follow this strategy also on their e-mtbs.

Regarding motor - it's a shame the mounts have changed, but i guess with this new mounts in two different versions (integrated and "not-integrated"), they now have a good basis to upgrade the motors without changing the mounts everytime.

 

[Carlos Muralhas]

full ack. Regarding batteries i have a collegue that has a 6 year old Specialized Turbo S (45km/h e-bike) and they have released that bike with newer batteries over the years, but the new ones (they've doubled the capacity) are still compatible with his old bike and have exactly the same size. We can hope they follow this strategy also on their e-mtbs.
.

Nice that

 

[Kiwi in Wales]

Ok, Firstly, please excuse the photo of my old minging motor before it got changed..... it was the only photo I could find with almost the same view prospective.

This unfortunately shows quite conclusively that we not be able to fit the new motor into our current ebike frames as the motor mounts are completely different.

I noticed the 'battery to motor' socket has moved down to reside next to the other sockets so this might actually assist with the water ingress issue I had.

I know I keep harping on about it but I wish they had angled the socket positions downwards by 45 degrees to use gravity to prevent water ingress into the motor..... It rains where I live, and then it rains and after it has rained it rains again so it is a big challenge for me to keep water out. It is achievable but it means a lot more maintenance and this takes up valuable riding time

 

[ccrdave]

I still reckon an adapter plate could be made its just engineering and i know somebody who is very good at that. The big problem would getting hold of the motor