Accidentally purchased illegal ebikes?

[Lollum2020]

I kind of messed up and purchased two Lankeleisi XF4000 1000w ebikes from an online retailer in the UK. The retailer did not mention about the 250w rule and i was unaware when ordering. I tried to return the bikes but apparently as they are not in the "sealed original packaging" i can not return them..

I'm now stuck with £2700 of ebikes, £3000 including the accessories which i have absolutely no clue what to do with or how or where i can use them without getting them seized.

Should i use them on popular hiking/biking trails in Wales and Scotland, would i be committing a criminal offence?

Honestly any advice would be appreciated. I've read that i can install some sort of switch to limit the top speed but I'm not sure how viable this is,

FYI: asked this question on another ebike forum and got banned for even considering using my £3000 of purchases on woodland trails. I hope the response here will be more understanding!

Many thanks

 

[Lollum2020]

Surely there is no other ebike forum

Well it was a cycling forum.. not a place I'd recommend for sure!

 

[cozzy]

I completely understand your point. Though just to confirm I'm not one of these idiots zipping around a busy town centre on a 1kw bike with no clue how to ride.

I intended to use the bikes off road on public hiking and biking trails. Forest paths, mud paths ect. Yes that may have originally Included some light country lane cycling.

I wouldn't be anymore likely to get into an accident than anyone else riding a non assisted bike. In fact probably far less likely being on secluded hiking trails in the middle of nowhere.

Personally I would have no issue with you riding these things on the road or in a city.
I would take exception if you were to ride them in mountain bike specific places, bridleways, cycle routes, bikeparks and trail centres.
Obviously you shouldn't use a bike on a hiking trail irrespective of whether it's a legal bike or not

 

[Binhill1]

Quite a few folk are whizzing around my area of Moray with throttle control bikes . Police don't seem to bother so . You don't have to go flat out remember

 

[jackamo]

It does state in the advert that it breaks speed assisted speed 45kmph

But I've never heard of anyone being done for a over powered bike .
And going by the way police deal with anything you might aswell get out and ride it.

 

[jonmat]

Just ride sensibly, nobody will bother you. Courtesy and consideration is all that counts. The police in the UK don't know much about law in general, never mind EPAC law. Ride slowly past people, dogs and horses, or stop and let them pass. In Sheffield City centre nearly all pavements are shared access, where pedestrians have right of way. Your bike looks like the ebikes the delivery riders use, Just Eat, Food Hub, Deliveroo etc. They all have 1500/2000 watt hub drives and PC plod doesn't bat an eyelid. Just ride it.

 

[twistgripper]

you should be able to go into settings/parameters on the display and change the output...

 

[HGmtb]

Just disconnect (or even take off) the throttle, only use it in the lower/mid power setting, and ride considerately.

 

[Bummers]

I used a Monzo MasterCard debit card. I thought I did not have that protection without a credit card?

Stupidly don't know why I didn't put them on the credit card. I even put my entire wedding on a credit card then paid it straight off just for the protection.

Can ring and enquire, see what they advise.

 

[Mikerb]

.......and just as we discuss lack of any police enforcement of illegal electric bikes I read a news report today detailing the seizure of more than a dozen illegal bikes in Cardiff City centre. That included some Deliveroo bikes. For once the news article accurately set out the law regarding the use of bikes with motors rated in excess of 250w and capable of motor assistance beyond 25kph or without pedalling (e.g with a throttle.) The article stated that the police action against such vehicles would be continued.
My advice to the op would be to sell the bikes if attempts to return them fail.
Yes you may get away with riding them in remote areas but the best way to ruin any bike ride is to be worried any time you meet hikers or ride into a village etc.

 

[Sgarth42]

For where and how you intend to use, I think you would be extremely unlikely to be stopped or prosecuted by police in rural areas. The problem is more based in town/city centres and riding through pedestrian precincts (which as I understand it is actually illegal on any bike anyway) so in reality you'd probably be fine. But also you should still get section 75 protection on your Mondo card which would be the 1st coarse of action if the supplier refuses a refund. I have used this in the past with a CC purchase (nothing to do with bikes) and was very effective

 

[Pdoz]

Imagine walking into the shower block for the traditional " what are you in here for" session, and explaining you're THAT guy who knocked over granny on the walking trail . if only you bought from a real bike shop........

 

[Lollum2020]

Imagine walking into the shower block for the traditional " what are you in here for" session, and explaining you're THAT guy who knocked over granny on the walking trail . if only you bought from a real bike shop........

This honestly sounds ridiculous mate.

Why do some people assume that because I purchased illegal ebikes that I am THAT guy who rides an ebike stereotypically like one of THEM guys.

I am absolutely no more likely to run a Granny over on my XF4000s than any other bike. What difference does 750w actually make in now likely someone is to be hit by an ebike?

For the record, both bikes arrived to me factory limited to 15.5mph.

And the throttle is removed...

Really just don't see how anyone could assume that I would be more likely to hit somebody on a trail. Imo the riders experience and MB experience is what determines this more than anything.

 

[DieBoy]

If it’s within 14 days you have a right to return them for a refund.

Even when they say this in the terms and conditions on their website?

You can't override a statutory law with a clause in a contract. Just because your landlord has a clause in the rental agreement entitling them to your first born doesn't make it legally enforceable.

The 14 day right of return for distance-purchased goods (an EU law still on the books in the UK for the time being) does have a couple of legitimate exceptions: consumables, hygiene reasons, or personalised items that couldn't realistically be resold.

For a bike, the rule of thumb is you can ride it a short distance on asphalt and still be able to return it.

Mind you, any company that tries this sort of nonsense in their T&Cs shouldn't be touched with a barge pole, and is unlikely to be cooperative without a court case.

Caveat Emptor.

Regarding using the bikes. Private land with the owners permission and it's legal. That's a fairly limited area though. Bridleways for example are still covered by the Highways Act.

In reality, if you stick to offroad use, self-limit the power/max assist speed, and don't attract attention to yourself you'd probably be OK, though still with a small risk.

On-road: if you get caught, you'll be in expensive trouble. If you're involved in an accident, even if it wasn't your fault, you'll be in the shit.

 

[Planemo]

Not sure whether it may help, but the DVSA are hammering ebike retailers who don't make it clear that their ebikes are not compliant for public use. Theres been about 7 prosecutions recently, one of whom got an £18k fine, plus the company had to recall all of the bikes they sold. Might be worth looking into.

 

[robbydobs]

The nominal rating of an electric motor is the maximum output it can sustain over a short period of time without overheating and destroying itself. Yes 250w motors can peak at c 540w but only for a very short period of time.....ie seconds.

Is there a link for this anywhere because I've looked at the epac definition and I can find nothing?

I think the legal "250w" full power motors are putting out 500w-600w all the time in boost. It's why they are so much faster than the SL bikes with 240w+ motors. It's also why they can drain the battery so quick in boost. I can drain a 500wh battery in less than an hour, and there's no way those motors are only 45% efficiecent.
The 500w figure also tallies up with the estimated power I see on Strava, especially up road bike climbs where you can compare yourself against people with power meters (if you set it to a normal bike ride)
In that EMTB-Forums Shimano interview, shimano were very reluctant to say how they were testing the power.
I also wouldn't be surprised if the 1000w bikes have overstated their power somewhat, and I'd bet they are only putting out that power at a certain RPM/speed.

Personally, I'd be happy riding them anywhere if they had the speed restricted.

 

[DieBoy]

I also wouldn't be surprised if the 1000w bikes have overstated their power somewhat, and I'd bet they are only putting out that power at a certain RPM/speed.

Agreed. 1000W is likely to be the peak power, with the nominal output around half of that (i.e. ~500W).

 

[steve_sordy]

This honestly sounds ridiculous mate.

Why do some people assume that because I purchased illegal ebikes that I am THAT guy who rides an ebike stereotypically like one of THEM guys.

I am absolutely no more likely to run a Granny over on my XF4000s than any other bike. What difference does 750w actually make in now likely someone is to be hit by an ebike?

For the record, both bikes arrived to me factory limited to 15.5mph.

And the throttle is removed...

Really just don't see how anyone could assume that I would be more likely to hit somebody on a trail. Imo the riders experience and MB experience is what determines this more than anything.

The point is that if you did have the misfortune to have a similarly awful accident, then because you are riding an illegal bike the law will come down on you much harder than if the bike was legal. Hence jail instead of a stiff fine.

It's a bit like being in a moving car accident that was 100% the other driver's fault, but if you had alcohol in your system and they didn't, you are somehow the one at fault (or partially instead of 100% not).

Note: I am NOT implying that you are a drink driver, I'm just trying to illustrate the issue.

 

[DieBoy]

Out of morbid curiosity I had a quick look at the Lankeleisi website.

Couldn't find a physical address. Couldn't find the official company name or where they're registered. Privacy policy not compliant (e.g. no proper contact details).

More red flags than a 1st of May parade.

I wouldn't ride the bikes (even where legal) without having a bike tech look over them first.

 

[RipGroove]

Distance-buying is the key here, in the UK you are legally entitled to return items within 14 days without even giving a reason so the whole misleading advertising doesn't even matter anyway. Taken from .gov:

Online, mail and phone order sales
Online, mail and telephone order customers have the right to cancel their order for a limited time even if the goods are not faulty. Sales of this kind are known as ‘distance selling’.

You must offer a refund to customers if they’ve told you within 14 days of receiving their goods that they want to cancel. They have another 14 days to return the goods once they’ve told you.

You must refund the customer within 14 days of receiving the goods back. They do not have to provide a reason.

Just read up on your rights and make the seller fully aware that you know your rights so if they don't follow the law then you'll take them to court.

 

[Embt]

I see illegal ebikes all the time 99% r being safe. I seen one today he was doing about 30 on a quiet road.

I also seen 2 13, yr olds on a surron near the V & A in dundee powering around. Then I seen a police car the 2 boys were at the pavement lights and one froze his shoulders went right up. The policeman were staring at them then went on the radio.

I also see a few people on a scooter with a seat that r drug users and the 18 yr olds with the scooter in the crossface trakkies.

I also see alot of cargo bikes too.

And I see a few DIY bikes one I know has throttle assist and does 38mph so he claims but he does 8mph.

Oh yes and the 5% of pedestrians who shout at u for no reason I love the one when they shout ur welcome letting me past on a 18 foot wide path

 

[Uncomfortably_Numb]

You can't override a statutory law with a clause in a contract. Just because your landlord has a clause in the rental agreement entitling them to your first born doesn't make it legally enforceable.

The 14 day right of return for distance-purchased goods (an EU law still on the books in the UK for the time being) does have a couple of legitimate exceptions: consumables, hygiene reasons, or personalised items that couldn't realistically be resold.

For a bike, the rule of thumb is you can ride it a short distance on asphalt and still be able to return it.

Mind you, any company that tries this sort of nonsense in their T&Cs shouldn't be touched with a barge pole, and is unlikely to be cooperative without a court case.

Caveat Emptor.

Regarding using the bikes. Private land with the owners permission and it's legal. That's a fairly limited area though. Bridleways for example are still covered by the Highways Act.

In reality, if you stick to offroad use, self-limit the power/max assist speed, and don't attract attention to yourself you'd probably be OK, though still with a small risk.

On-road: if you get caught, you'll be in expensive trouble. If you're involved in an accident, even if it wasn't your fault, you'll be in the shit.

I am considering returning my Canyon Spectral:On CF8 for a refund. I've had it 4 days and have done 37 tarmac miles on it so far. I've just had a reply from Canyon support stating " Regrettably we no longer sell batteries for the Spectral:ON and they are not available to purchase from us. " there are some other issues that I'm not happy about but not being able to replace the battery is a huge concern.
Would 37 miles be considered excessive or should it not matter?