About to pop my ebike cherry

[ab_mtb]

Good morning all. New member here from Scotland.
Currently looking for my first ebike due to the incredible sales atm & have a couple of questions.

Firstly, is the shimano ep8 really that bad? I've heard some proper horror stories about it (reliability) but... its also fitted to more bikes than any other motor. Is it the sheer volume of ep8s in the wild that make it look worse?

Secondly, do any of you "downsize" when buying an ebike? As the weight make them inherently stable is it a good idea to get a smaller bike to make it easier to manouver it?

An ebike is a huge financial commitment for me & I'm a pathological procrastinator .
Thanks in advance
Allan

 

[Paulquattro]

Welcome
Size wise stay as you would
As for shimano i have run one in the past and it served me well But there not that readily repairable like other brands are
For me its Bosch all the way after using others
Im on my 7th emtb bike since 2015 and have tried Brose , Yamaha, Bosch ,shimano and TQ but Bosch has been what i have always been happiest with
Just remember non of them are bomb proof and need looking after

 

[Ou812]

I think the reason you see so much hate on Shimano is the lack of repairability, they don’t supply any parts at all. Say a sensor goes bad, it’s a new motor instead of just replacing a cheap sensor. I’ve seen issues with getting replacement motors from shimano, one of my mates waited about 2 months before his shimano rep finally sourced one from the US.

Plus….it rattles like crazy, it might not bother you but for me it was a no-go. I’m one of those people that gets super annoyed by things like that. The whole time I was on the Yeti I just kept getting annoyed from it, to the point that I couldn’t really enjoy the ride.

 

[ab_mtb]

I think the reason you see so much hate on Shimano is the lack of repairability, they don’t supply any parts at all. Say a sensor goes bad, it’s a new motor instead of just replacing a cheap sensor. I’ve seen issues with getting replacement motors from shimano, one of my mates waited about 2 months before his shimano rep finally sourced one from the US.

Plus….it rattles like crazy, it might not bother you but for me it was a no-go. I’m one of those people that gets super annoyed by things like that. The whole time I was on the Yeti I just kept getting annoyed from it, to the point that I couldn’t really enjoy the ride.

Appreciate the info, hate rattles myself but I've read they all rattle to a degree

 

[ab_mtb]

Welcome
Size wise stay as you would
As for shimano i have run one in the past and it served me well But there not that readily repairable like other brands are
For me its Bosch all the way after using others
Im on my 7th emtb bike since 2015 and have tried Brose , Yamaha, Bosch ,shimano and TQ but Bosch has been what i have always been happiest with
Just remember non of them are bomb proof and need looking after

Thanks for the info

 

[steve_sordy]

I have had two Shimano motors, the e8000 and the newer EP8. The first gave me over 3000 trouble free mile and I loved it. The feel was very natural, just like me on a really good day. The EP8 is a significant upgrade from the e8000, 21% more torque, lighter and tunable. What the latter offers is amazing! Shimano kept the natural feel and I still love it. I have done over 2500 trouble free miles and I have no plans to change it, even though it's now out of warranty. I have not chipped either motor, which may account for the lack of problems, I don't know. If the motor fails now then I would buy another as the cheapest option without hesitation (but a lot of irritation).

I accept that Shimano's policy of not offering spares to out of warranty motors is irritating, and I keep telling myself that when I buy my next bike I will avoid Shimano powered options, if only to vote with my wallet! I also keep coming across on the internet a less than customer friendly treatment of people that do claim inside the warranty period, using all sorts of dubious get out clauses. Also irritating. But I do love the way the motor delivers its power and I have had zero problems personally.

If the next bike that I really want happens to have a Shimano motor, that will be a proper dilemma! Vote with my wallet or go with my personal experience.

 

[steve_sordy]

And another thing! When I first got my EP8 powered bike I listened out for the infamous "rattle". It was there, just. I only heard it when not pedalling and traversing slightly rough ground. If it really was rough then my tyres (and me) made enough noise to drown out any rattle that was there. After a week or so of listening out for it, I no longer heard it. I suspect that if I was obsessive about squeaks, creaks and rattles then I might still hear it. But where is the fun in that!

I would not downsize to make the bike easier to manoeuvre. It is very much more important to buy a bike that fits you. I doubt that the weight difference between a large and a medium would be worth the hassle.

Nothing to do with the motor, but one thing I would check however is that when the dropper post is fully inserted into the seat tube and with the dropper fully extended, that you can sit on the saddle and ride in comfort. You may tell yourself, "The saddle is only 5-10mm too high and I can use the dropper facility to make it fit." That will very soon become a nuisance that you will no longer be able to live with. When you are on a ride, trying to get the saddle to the correct height first time, other than all the way up or all the way down, becomes impossible.

 

[ab_mtb]

And another thing! When I first got my EP8 powered bike I listened out for the infamous "rattle". It was there, just. I only heard it when not pedalling and traversing slightly rough ground. If it really was rough then my tyres (and me) made enough noise to drown out any rattle that was there. After a week or so of listening out for it, I no longer heard it. I suspect that if I was obsessive about squeaks, creaks and rattles then I might still hear it. But where is the fun in that!

I would not downsize to make the bike easier to manoeuvre. It is very much more important to buy a bike that fits you. I doubt that the weight difference between a large and a medium would be worth the hassle.

Nothing to do with the motor, but one thing I would check however is that when the dropper post is fully inserted into the seat tube and with the dropper fully extended, that you can sit on the saddle and ride in comfort. You may tell yourself, "The saddle is only 5-10mm too high and I can use the dropper facility to make it fit." That will very soon become a nuisance that you will no longer be able to live with. When you are on a ride, trying to get the saddle to the correct height first time, other than all the way up or all the way down, becomes impossible.A

And another thing! When I first got my EP8 powered bike I listened out for the infamous "rattle". It was there, just. I only heard it when not pedalling and traversing slightly rough ground. If it really was rough then my tyres (and me) made enough noise to drown out any rattle that was there. After a week or so of listening out for it, I no longer heard it. I suspect that if I was obsessive about squeaks, creaks and rattles then I might still hear it. But where is the fun in that!

I would not downsize to make the bike easier to manoeuvre. It is very much more important to buy a bike that fits you. I doubt that the weight difference between a large and a medium would be worth the hassle.

Nothing to do with the motor, but one thing I would check however is that when the dropper post is fully inserted into the seat tube and with the dropper fully extended, that you can sit on the saddle and ride in comfort. You may tell yourself, "The saddle is only 5-10mm too high and I can use the dropper facility to make it fit." That will very soon become a nuisance that you will no longer be able to live with. When you are on a ride, trying to get the saddle to the correct height first time, other than all the way up or all the way down, becomes impossible.

Appreciate the info. The downsizing was less about weight & more about smaller bike being easier to throw about on jumps, switchbacks etc ut I take ur point about correct fit. My current bike is a great fit that just inspires confidence

 

[Ou812]

I don’t buy my bikes based on size, I go by reach numbers. I have a reach range that I know works for me so that’s how I choose my bikes, some brands that will be a small and other it will be a medium.

 

[Expidia]

Definitely go to a bike shop and first let them size you correctly. Then drive a medium and a large around their lor for a bit. I have a large Powerfly and a Medium Powerfly. When I bought the large there were no mediums available back in July of 2022.
I'm around 5'9 on a good day ! Which for most of the Trek brand models, I'm right on the cusp between a large and a medium. I did previously own a Trek Verve in a medium and it felt small. Then I owned a large Giant Explore and it felt OK.
Then I came across a PF medium for a great price $2,700 with 146 mi. on Craigslist and only 1.5 hrs from my house, I could not pass that up!

Sizewise, your cockpit can be adjusted for your build up or down on any bike by moving the seat back and forth, you can roll and adust the handle bars back and forth and the handle bar height can also be adjusted up and down plus you can swap out the stem for an even higher angled one, if need be.

My medium fits me like a glove. It feels like an extension of my body. If I were a jumper or a shredder, it would be the only way I could go. But the large frame also feels better to me for single track and Xcountry, gravel and paved roads etc.

Good luck with your new Ebike.

 

[Dax]

I accept that Shimano's policy of not offering spares to out of warranty motors is irritating, and I keep telling myself that when I buy my next bike I will avoid Shimano powered options, if only to vote with my wallet! I also keep coming across on the internet a less than customer friendly treatment of people that do claim inside the warranty period, using all sorts of dubious get out clauses. Also irritating. But I do love the way the motor delivers its power and I have had zero problems personally.

The stories on here about a customer with a broken bike going back to the manufacturer/lbs, who couldnt help and pointed at shimano, who couldn't help and pointed at the manufacturer/lbs has pretty much set my mind that I will not buy anything with a shimano motor, at least until there's a load of threads talking about how easy it is to get your shimano bike fixed and how great the support from shimano was.

It's not like brose/bosch bikes are bad

Secondly, do any of you "downsize" when buying an ebike? As the weight make them inherently stable is it a good idea to get a smaller bike to make it easier to manouver it?

No. Buy the right size bike. Ideally test ride or at least sit on one before you buy

 

[Pablo8]

I will say nothing bad about any solid manufacturer. I've ridden 3000-5000W monsters and 250W wimps, in the end Bosch seems to be the best combo of legal power, reliability and competency. Their website is a bit wonky from the USA side, but certainly better than most. Technically their tie-in with Cannondale seems fine, but support is a tad disjointed.

My PERSONAL OPINION: Size depends. What the other's say makes 100% sense - but NOW I seem to always find I'm between so called Medium and Small. Example: at 168cm, 75Kg, 65 years old my stature is shrinking a bit and I am losing weight and a little muscle mass. So both my current rides are small and fit great. I ride a medium and seems too big now. On paper if I were 25-35-45 years, I would go medium.

 

[Striker]

The point someone made about dropper posts is spot on, I had a day out yesterday on a Specialized Kenovo, the dropper post was too long by about 10mm and wouldn't insert any further into the seat post, suffice to say trying to get comfortable by adjusting the dropper post was a pain in the arse.

 

[jonmat]

For me the fit is everything, get the right size that you are comfortable with. Orbea were brilliant when my frame cracked and Bosch were brilliant when my motor bearings went kaput on my previous Cube bike with a Gen 3 motor. I've had no problems with my Bosch Gen 4 motor in 4,200 miles on my 2021 Orbea Wild.

 

[Expidia]

When in between sizes and you opt for a large having a dropper post makes all the difference. Even though I’ve adjusted my cockpit to suit my physique . . . if I’m running the seat too high too much weight is transferred to my wrists. But a touch of the dropper down a little centers my weight and everything is comfortable again. Wrist pain does not happen with my medium no matter where the post is. Goes to show I’m really a medium frame size.

 

[Chairman]

I would suggest sizing down slightly is a far better option than sizing up slightly. I get to ride a variety of bikes due to an afilition u have with a hire company. My personal bike is a Bosch and apart from breaking an occasional engine mount its been trouble free for 15k kilometers. I don't much like the shimano ep8 or ep801. I just find them a bit underpowered. The Brose is a nice motor. Similar power to the Bosch but gets quite noisy when worked hard and has a tendency to be a bit unreliable.

 

[Shorty4]

I've had a 2018 Focus Jam2 carbon frame with the E8000 since December 2019 which was an ex demo bike so had 500kms on it when I puchased it.
It now has just under 9,500km on it and the motor is still going strong.
I also have a Focus Thron2 with a Bosch CX Performance which is well on the way to 6,000km.
The Jam is used mostly for cross country, single track, downhill and a bit of touring while the Thron is used for general riding and a little bit of cross country. The Shimano motor has a much more natural feel to it with the power application and feels much smoother where the Bosch once you touch the pedals is off, it also has a much more on/off feel to the power application where the Shimano just feels more progressive and natural.
I suggest trying both under a wide variety of conditions as you can before purchase.
As the Thron is nearly 5kg heavier than the 19kg Jam the performance from the two is very similar power wise as the additional weight "uses" the extra power the Bosch has over the E8000, a Shimano EP8 in a light frame would be my choice if looking for another bike.

 

[steve_sordy]

To all those trying a Shimano EP8 for the first time, please be aware that you can tune the motor with your phone, or the dealer can do it if it's a test ride (it's that quick).
The range of tuning makes an astonishing difference. I met a rider called @Davvee who was on his new Nukeproof. He was a little disappointed as he thought it would have had more go in it. In just a few minutes, showed him how to use his mobile to move the acceleration response from level 4 to level 8 (out of 10) and a few other things. He was blown away by the result. They do not come out of the factory with all the settings at maximum!

 

[Chairman]

To all those trying a Shimano EP8 for the first time, please be aware that you can tune the motor with your phone, or the dealer can do it if it's a test ride (it's that quick).
The range of tuning makes an astonishing difference. I met a rider called @Davvee who was on his new Nukeproof. He was a little disappointed as he thought it would have had more go in it. In just a few minutes, showed him how to use his mobile to move the acceleration response from level 4 to level 8 (out of 10) and a few other things. He was blown away by the result. They do not come out of the factory with all the settings at maximum!

That is a valid point but a maxed out ep8 is still not comparable to a bosch or a maxed out Brose

 

[Bob Orbea Rise]

Good morning all. New member here from Scotland.
Currently looking for my first ebike due to the incredible sales atm & have a couple of questions.

Firstly, is the shimano ep8 really that bad? I've heard some proper horror stories about it (reliability) but... its also fitted to more bikes than any other motor. Is it the sheer volume of ep8s in the wild that make it look worse?

Secondly, do any of you "downsize" when buying an ebike? As the weight make them inherently stable is it a good idea to get a smaller bike to make it easier to manouver it?

An ebike is a huge financial commitment for me & I'm a pathological procrastinator .
Thanks in advance
Allan

Hi Allan
As others say the ep8 is not any more unreliable than any other motor imo. It’s just that these bikes are so expensive for what they are people do get annoyed when they break and rightly so. The issue then becomes time relevant and that’s where shimano have struggled with supply issues as they did not have enough new motors to give a decent turn around time and get the bike back on the road. Sorry, trail. (Mustn’t make that mistake ) but again I think they are more up to speed these days

They all have a failure rate, are not water proof and most have a rattle to some degree. Brose is very good for rattles from what I saw but their reliability was shocking with two bikes in our group on 5 motors between them. I think they fixed that now with better Kevlar belts ( not cogs hence no rattle that I could feel) so at the time it was shimano for me as those bikes where more affordable and I also did not want a full power bike in terms of fitness, the full power (brose in the levo) bikes where just too easy on climes I need to work to a point and still keep it fun without the temptation to leave it in boost which I knew I would do

I was in a ride yesterday all Fairly flat xc on trails with compacted hard flat ground, with a lot of long periods pedalling and never noticed the rattle once, but take it on a decent free wheeling and get some choppy high frequency bumps like roots or similar size and you will feel it. It’s not bad imo and you know what it is so tune it out. I get a worse rattle from the mud guard (which I hate but it works ) slapping the rear tyre as an example

I really would not worry and buy the right bike for you regardless as now new bikes are pretty sorted I believe

Also the new for 23 ep801 and 601 are reportedly better than the 21/22 ep8 for rattles