400km Chain Replacement?

[Mountie]

Hello everyone,

I had a great ride today 52kms 450m climbing a good day out. Mostly ride in eco 20% and have just over 400kms on the new 18 Expert Carbon. I checked the chain after the ride and the checker is saying to replace the chain arg. Still shifts really well and doesn’t have excessive chain slap. Is this normal after such a short time?

Thanks for reading

 

[Ryder]

From what I have read e-bikes do need the chain replacing more often as the power being put though the drivetrain is much higher. Also if you carry on with a worn chain you will wear the rear cassette and front chainring and that will work out much more expensive in the long run! Chains are cheap in comparison.

 

[Kernow]

Mine needed a chain after about 500 miles , and that’s the ex1 which is supposed to be heavier duty , there’s allready wear visible on my Renthal front ring , so I am expecting maybe 2 chains to a front ring . Don’t even mention brakes , good job pads are cheap

 

[Elroy]

If you let it go further it may require new cassette and ring. I passed the point of no return on my analog bike, it still shifted well with no vibration but when i tried a new chain it would not mesh smoothly at all. Otoh i can now ride this setup until it starts to skip.

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

How do you guys track your mileage? Is it built into the displays? I think the Levo stores it in the app, but I haven’t checked it for a while.

 

[Ryder]

I use Strava but the Shimano display tracks it as well.

 

[Doomanic]

The Bosch tracks it, but it got reset when they fitted the new motor.

 

[Mountie]

Mission control tracks it as well as Strava

 

[Japuserid]

Hello everyone,

I had a great ride today 52kms 450m climbing a good day out. Mostly ride in eco 20% and have just over 400kms on the new 18 Expert Carbon. I checked the chain after the ride and the checker is saying to replace the chain arg. Still shifts really well and doesn’t have excessive chain slap. Is this normal after such a short time?

Thanks for reading

Hi Mountie,
This is unfortunately, quite normal to wear out a chain within 400 km and even less if you're not careful, but you should be able to get a bit more mileage if you follow these simple step's.
Only buy the best quality chain's you can find.
Clean thoroughly, then dry and lube the chain after every ride.
Spin rather than grunt and you should be able to get as much as 7-800 km
A lot, obviously depends on the actual conditions you ride in, but in any event it's unlikely you are ever going to get much more than 500 miles or 800 km's, wherever you ride.
Thankfully chain's are fairly cheap compared to the rest of the drive train.
Personally I would replace it as soon as it approaches the 0.7% eg as soon as you can gently force the gauge in fully, it's time to replace it, leaving any longer risks taking out the whole transmission very quickly.

 

[Mountie]

Thanks for the information

 

[100 Cols]

Come on guys, 500 kms is surely nothing for a chain, even on an eBike?! If eBikes would require new chain once or twice a month they would be practically useless, non? I don't know how much a typical forum user rides per week, but generally speaking I think it's not uncommon for an amateur cyclist to pedal more than 200 km per week (especially with an eBike).

Anyways, before my accident on April I managed to put 700 km on my Overvolt, so after reading this thread I crawled downstairs to my small workshop and measured the chain with a chain wear indicator: the wear is hardly noticeable, looks like the chain will be good at least for 1500 more kms.

I don't clean the chain after every ride, but I do tend to keep the chain and the bike quite clean and well lubricated.

 

[Mountie]

Sorry to hear about your accident, can I ask what chain your using? My bike only has 400kms on it the chain checker falls through it lol. I keep the bike cleaned and lubricated after each ride also not sure what else to do.

 

[Kernow]

Come on guys, 500 kms is surely nothing for a chain, even on an eBike?! If eBikes would require new chain once or twice a month they would be practically useless, non? I don't know how much a typical forum user rides per week, but generally speaking I think it's not uncommon for an amateur cyclist to pedal more than 200 km per week (especially with an eBike).

Anyways, before my accident on April I managed to put 700 km on my Overvolt, so after reading this thread I crawled downstairs to my small workshop and measured the chain with a chain wear indicator: the wear is hardly noticeable, looks like the chain will be good at least for 1500 more kms.

I don't clean the chain after every ride, but I do tend to keep the chain and the bike quite clean and well lubricated.

It’s very much dependant on the conditions your riding in ,and how abrasive your local mud and grit is . exteme winter conditions will kill a chain fast , my normal mtb will need a chain through the winter months , but my roadie has done over 3k and the chain is still like new . Lots of roadies ride 200 k plus a week or more but I don’t think many mtb riders do .
My daughter seems to get through a chain every 6-8 weeks or so in the winter , she probably averages about 50 properly off road miles a week in very muddy woods a big bloke with double her power riding in same conditions increases the wear rate more .
I ride on the moors a lot and although it’s muddy the peaty soil doesnt seem to create as much wear as normal mud , or the sort of stone grit you find at wet hard trail centre trails
I’ve found that kmc chains last longer than shimano and SRAM and they seem to be smoother too , no idea what chains specialised fit as standard if it’s a cheaper quality chain then the fast wear here isn’t a surprise . Iam always surprised how many cyclists I meet both on and off road who’s chains are worn out and they have no idea
Since owning my ebike I have spent £20 on a chain and about the same on brake pads .

 

[Ryder]

I wonder if how you ride affects wear rates? Riding everywhere in the highest setting and low cadence is going to be putting a lot more torque through the drivetrain than spinning high cadence in eco.

 

[100 Cols]

can I ask what chain your using? My bike only has 400kms on it the chain checker falls through it lol. I keep the bike cleaned and lubricated after each ride also not sure what else to do.

I'll try to verify tomorrow, but I think the chain is "Shimano STePS CN-E6090 E-Bike Chain 10-speed". CHECKED & VERIFIED: I was wrong, the original Overvolt chain is Shimano "CN-HG54 10-Speed HG-X". Cheap Deore chain

I don't want to argue with you guys, if you destroy a chain per 400 km leg, then you do. It's the sign of muscles, I think.

But still I'm amazed. Basically half of any ride is downhill, which puts very little strain on chain, so... Practically you are grinding one chain down to destruction in only 200 kms of power-pedalling. Scary.

 

[100 Cols]

Updated my chain info above ^ (if someone is still interested).

 

[Japuserid]

I'll try to verify tomorrow, but I think the chain is "Shimano STePS CN-E6090 E-Bike Chain 10-speed". CHECKED & VERIFIED: I was wrong, the original Overvolt chain is Shimano "CN-HG54 10-Speed HG-X". Cheap Deore chain

I don't want to argue with you guys, if you destroy a chain per 400 km leg, then you do. It's the sign of muscles, I think.

But still I'm amazed. Basically half of any ride is downhill, which puts very little strain on chain, so... Practically you are grinding one chain down to destruction in only 200 kms of power-pedalling. Scary.

Hi 100 Cols

Glad to hear your chain is doing well, the fact that its a 10 speed chain helps, being a tad beefier than an 11 speed and your local riding conditions also seem to be less abrasive perhaps, but I would seriously recommend you keep an eye on the wear as it can very quickly change from OK to Not OK in just a few rides. I know quite a few people who have been caught like that and instead of just a chain it cost them a cassette as well.

Wishing you a very speedy recovery and long chain life.

 

[Doomanic]

Basically half of any ride is downhill, which puts very little strain on chain,

Not necessarily. If you are pushing hard on a DH track you are likely to be in a high gear and stamping on the pedals to eke out those last elusive 10ths to get that KOM and be the envy of all those people on the leaderboard who have no idea who you are.

 

[Mountie]

Got the emtb kmc fitted last night was easy enough compared to motorcycle chains anyway. Let’s see how long this one lasts

 

[Mountie]

I think some people that are snapping chains or getting 1000 kms out of a chain may not be using a chain stretch indicator. Mine checked fine before a 32 mile 52km ride and then failed stretch test afterwards. It still shifted ok or so I thought until I installed the new chain last night much smoother and quicker now. If I would if pushed the chain another 600 kms it may of gone the distance but I feel it would of damaged the hub and front ring for sure. I like the analogy of the chain on an emtb is like an oil change in your car, “you could leave it but you will pay more later”.

 

[Tamas]

I'm using the cheapest 11 speed SRAM PC1110 chain that is 10€. @1000km it wasn't stretched to even 0.5%. I swapped it with a new one and after 1000km with the second I'll put the first one back and use it until it needs to be replaced. Then #2 can go back and run it to the end. I expect a total 3-4000km with the two chains. At this point, I absolutely see no reason buying "emtb specific" chain that costs triple than the PC1110.

I'm pretty anal about cleaning and lubing the drivetrain and I'm spinning rather than smashing...

 

[Mountie]

I'm using the cheapest 11 speed SRAM PC1110 chain that is 10€. @1000km it wasn't stretched to even 0.5%. I swapped it with a new one and after 1000km with the second I'll put the first one back and use it until it needs to be replaced. Then #2 can go back and run it to the end. I expect a total 3-4000km with the two chains. At this point, I absolutely see no reason buying "emtb specific" chain that costs triple than the PC1110.

I'm pretty anal about cleaning and lubing the drivetrain and I'm spinning rather than smashing...

I’d love to do that maybe when this one is gone I’ll try it. Can I ask your chain maintenance regimen please?
I clean after every ride and lube after every ride and was wondering if maybe I’m causing issues with over cleaning?

Thanks

 

[Tamas]

I’d love to do that maybe when this one is gone I’ll try it. Can I ask your chain maintenance regimen please?
I clean after every ride and lube after every ride and was wondering if maybe I’m causing issues with over cleaning?

Thanks

I also clean and lube it pretty much after every ride but it depends... if I just do short 15km spins and it's dry weather then after every second ride. I clean it on the bike and I just run it through a rag ("dry cleaning") or a wet sponge. I'm using wax free car shampoo or dish soap - whichever is closer to my hands. If I do the wet clean then I'm using an air compressor to blow the chain and run it through a dry rag until it doesn't leave a mark on it. When I swap chains I do "deep cleaning" and soak the chain in some automotive degreaser or I use WD40. After that rinse it in water dry it and lube it.
For dry weather, I use Finish Line Teflon Plus Dry Lube Spray (the red one) in wet weather I use Finish Line Cross Country Chain Oil (the green one). The dry lube doesn't make any mess and easy to keep the drivetrain clean. The wet lube is obviously messier but not that bad. I tried almost all available chain lubes through the years and I use these in the last two years on my bikes and I really like them. I can get the red 500ml spray for 11€ and it lasts a while.
My theory is that I can use everything on the ebike that I use on the others. Even with the 250W assist, I'm less powerful than a pro XC rider and I barely use boost mode so no need to sweat on it too much...

 

[Mountie]

Thanks very much. I’ve been cleaning after rides of 20kms if under every second like you. I was washing with water and a little soap drying then using simple green in a park tools chain cleaner then rinsing drying and lubing. I feel that the simple green may be to much if it doesn’t get all rinsed out. I’m now trying wd40 as the cleaner, on a rag not sprayed on, drying and lubing. Thanks. very much for the information.

 

[Japuserid]

I'm using the cheapest 11 speed SRAM PC1110 chain that is 10€. @1000km it wasn't stretched to even 0.5%. I swapped it with a new one and after 1000km with the second I'll put the first one back and use it until it needs to be replaced. Then #2 can go back and run it to the end. I expect a total 3-4000km with the two chains. At this point, I absolutely see no reason buying "emtb specific" chain that costs triple than the PC1110.

I'm pretty anal about cleaning and lubing the drivetrain and I'm spinning rather than smashing...

Hey Tamas
1000km / 600 + miles on a cheap chain is pretty impressive, a testament to your chain maintenance regime
But in my experience the wear rate accelerate's towards the end of it's life, small amounts of wear quickly turn into ever large amounts of wear ever more quickly and suddenly within a short ride it's gone

Your two chain theory and the 3-4000 km (1800-2500 mile) target, is I assume your total expectation for the whole transmission, Cassette and Chain ring? That is pretty much what I achieved on my CX with XT 11-42, but I used, at least double the amount of chains you are estimating, It will be interesting, please keep us updated

I am very much hoping that the Shimano will be easier on chains than my Bosch CX, less torque and a larger chain ring have got to help and early indication's are encouraging, I am currently buying e bike specific, EX1 chains at a very good price of £17.00, this is good news because my EX1 cassette is a pricey bit of kit (£300.00) and at current price's I can buy nearly 18 new chain's for the same cost of the cassette, so it makes no sense for me to be risking premature wear caused by chain stretch.

For me the cassette is the bulk of the cost over time so anything that that helps preserve it greatly reduces the overall running cost's.

My personal target is to get 3000 miles (4800Km) from the cassette for hopefully 5 or 6 chains. So £300.00 Cassette £102.00 in chain's total £402.00 or £0.134 pm.

 

[outerlimits]

The original chain lasted 600km and was replaced at 0.7
The current SRAM pcx1has 1000km on it now and is at 0.5
Old chain I used Bike Mechanic Bike Milk a wax based chain lube about every second ride.
The new chain I started using Squirt, another wax based lube. It’s a little thicker and I lube it up about every 3rd ride.

 

[100 Cols]

Me too, I'm a fan of Squirt lube.

 

[Tamas]

Hey Tamas
1000km / 600 + miles on a cheap chain is pretty impressive, a testament to your chain maintenance regime
But in my experience the wear rate accelerate's towards the end of it's life, small amounts of wear quickly turn into ever large amounts of wear ever more quickly and suddenly within a short ride it's gone

Your two chain theory and the 3-4000 km (1800-2500 mile) target, is I assume your total expectation for the whole transmission, Cassette and Chain ring? That is pretty much what I achieved on my CX with XT 11-42, but I used, at least double the amount of chains you are estimating, It will be interesting, please keep us updated

I am very much hoping that the Shimano will be easier on chains than my Bosch CX, less torque and a larger chain ring have got to help and early indication's are encouraging, I am currently buying e bike specific, EX1 chains at a very good price of £17.00, this is good news because my EX1 cassette is a pricey bit of kit (£300.00) and at current price's I can buy nearly 18 new chain's for the same cost of the cassette, so it makes no sense for me to be risking premature wear caused by chain stretch.

For me the cassette is the bulk of the cost over time so anything that that helps preserve it greatly reduces the overall running cost's.

My personal target is to get 3000 miles (4800Km) from the cassette for hopefully 5 or 6 chains. So £300.00 Cassette £102.00 in chain's total £402.00 or £0.134 pm.

I didn't know what to really expect and I had a question mark when Commencal specced the Meta Power Essential with this cheap chain. I thought I need "emtb specific" but I read a german forum where a guy with long ebike experience said just use the cheapest chain keep it clean and lubed. He's now running EX1 on Bosch and uses the cheapest PC1031 10 speed SRAM chain with over a 1000km lifespan. So far it worked out for me too and for 10€ I cannot really complain even if I have to replace a chain @1200km. I don't think a chain that costs three times more would last three times longer.
I guess the full-size chainring of anything other than Bosch is beneficial for chain life longevity. Shimano has stainless steel chainring so that should last long. I'll see how it goes but based on 1500km I have in the bike so far and 4-5000km seems realistic with one cassette.
The math is a little bit different with 11 speed - SLX 11-46 cassette 53€, chains 10€...

 

[R120]

I snapped my chain today (Shimano XT 11 Speed), after only about 150 miles on the bike, can't remember the last time i had a chain go on me - managed to fix it with a shimano quick link but does make me wonder about the lifespan of them on e-bikes, i am quite hard on the drive train, but lube the chain after every ride and given it a full clean once since i bought it.

Never having used a quick link before, are they a temporary repair or can i carry on using it, the chain seems ok, and it was only one link that went?

 

[Mountie]

I’d say if it has snapped once replace it, I bought the kmc ebike chain and climbed 550 meters yesterday all seems good and shifts better then I remember.