Levo Gen 3 2022 Turbo Levo Pro - Lack of progressivity / bottomming out

[bastman]

Hi everyone!

I've been riding my brand new S3 turbo levo pro for a bit over 3 weeks / 230kms / 6500m of elevation.
I'm 72kg / 77kg fully kitted, and ride quite aggressivly in the French Alps. I will race the bike at the Mountain Of Hell this year.

I followed specialized suspensions calculator settings for both the 38 and x2 (incl. HSC/LSC/LSR/HSR ofc.) up to 82kg (+7% vs my kitted weight) and still lacked some bottom-out control.

I'm now running 92psi + 5 volume reducers (vs the 3 installed) in the fox 38 and i'm getting the end stroke support I needed.

Unfortunately it's not the same story regarding the Fox X2 Factory. Despite 210psi / 3 volume reducers (vs 1 installed, can't add more, that's the max supported by a 210x55), I still bottom out on the hardests flat landings, with occasionally a big nasty sound.

Are there other who experienced this kind of situation with their 2022 Levo? Any solutions to recommend except adding air or HSC (inducing a harsher ride)? Any way to add some other kind of volume reducers ?

Thanks a lot for your support (pun intended).

 

[Cb750stu]

Get a smashpot and a coil shock that will solve the problems

 

[bastman]

Get a smashpot and a coil shock that will solve the problems

Haha thanks @Cb750stu! My understanding is that coil are much more linear than air, so that may be worst not better.

 

[Darkyhs]

Hi everyone!

I've been riding my brand new S3 turbo levo pro for a bit over 3 weeks / 230kms / 6500m of elevation.
I'm 72kg / 77kg fully kitted, and ride quite aggressivly in the French Alps. I will race the bike at the Mountain Of Hell this year.

I followed specialized suspensions calculator settings for both the 38 and x2 (incl. HSC/LSC/LSR/HSR ofc.) up to 82kg (+7% vs my kitted weight) and still lacked some bottom-out control.

I'm now running 92psi + 5 volume reducers (vs the 3 installed) in the fox 38 and i'm getting the end stroke support I needed.

Unfortunately it's not the same story regarding the Fox X2 Factory. Despite 210psi / 3 volume reducers (vs 1 installed, can't add more, that's the max supported by a 210x55), I still bottom out on the hardests flat landings, with occasionally a big nasty sound.

Are there other who experienced this kind of situation with their 2022 Levo? Any solutions to recommend except adding air or HSC (inducing a harsher ride)? Any way to add some other kind of volume reducers ?

Thanks a lot for your support (pun intended).

You can get a custom tune for the shock, together with a Cascade Components link that adds 8% of progression to the shock, while adding also 1 CM of travel :

Specialized Turbo Levo Link (2022-Current) | EU | Cascade Components

Boost the descending characteristics of your Turbo Levo with this link that increases you suspension's progression and travel.

cascadecomponents.eu

 

[Eduardoramundo]

What sag on the X2?

 

[GeorgesEBike]

I do have to run much more pressure on my X2 on my Levo than other bikes. I weigh 140lbs and usually have my shock set at 150psi. On my Levo I have it set to 180psi. My last 2 X2's have leaked air and caused the shock to bottom out on each ride. Is your shock still holding air pressure every ride?

 

[Rosemount]

Hi everyone!

I've been riding my brand new S3 turbo levo pro for a bit over 3 weeks / 230kms / 6500m of elevation.
I'm 72kg / 77kg fully kitted, and ride quite aggressivly in the French Alps. I will race the bike at the Mountain Of Hell this year.

I followed specialized suspensions calculator settings for both the 38 and x2 (incl. HSC/LSC/LSR/HSR ofc.) up to 82kg (+7% vs my kitted weight) and still lacked some bottom-out control.

I'm now running 92psi + 5 volume reducers (vs the 3 installed) in the fox 38 and i'm getting the end stroke support I needed.

Unfortunately it's not the same story regarding the Fox X2 Factory. Despite 210psi / 3 volume reducers (vs 1 installed, can't add more, that's the max supported by a 210x55), I still bottom out on the hardests flat landings, with occasionally a big nasty sound.

Are there other who experienced this kind of situation with their 2022 Levo? Any solutions to recommend except adding air or HSC (inducing a harsher ride)? Any way to add some other kind of volume reducers ?

Thanks a lot for your support (pun intended).

Are you cycling the shock when you add air ?
ie pump the suspension up and down every 20 PSI you add . 70 KG guy should not bottom the suspension if it has correct pressure .
Set sag to 25 - 30 % of shock stroke

 

[Mcharza]

Here's a good video how to do it

 

[rocko_n82]

Hi everyone!

I've been riding my brand new S3 turbo levo pro for a bit over 3 weeks / 230kms / 6500m of elevation.
I'm 72kg / 77kg fully kitted, and ride quite aggressivly in the French Alps. I will race the bike at the Mountain Of Hell this year.

I followed specialized suspensions calculator settings for both the 38 and x2 (incl. HSC/LSC/LSR/HSR ofc.) up to 82kg (+7% vs my kitted weight) and still lacked some bottom-out control.

I'm now running 92psi + 5 volume reducers (vs the 3 installed) in the fox 38 and i'm getting the end stroke support I needed.

Unfortunately it's not the same story regarding the Fox X2 Factory. Despite 210psi / 3 volume reducers (vs 1 installed, can't add more, that's the max supported by a 210x55), I still bottom out on the hardests flat landings, with occasionally a big nasty sound.

Are there other who experienced this kind of situation with their 2022 Levo? Any solutions to recommend except adding air or HSC (inducing a harsher ride)? Any way to add some other kind of volume reducers ?

Thanks a lot for your support (pun intended).

It's simply a case of adding more air, the calculator is a guide to get you started and it's just that. It's the same as 27% sag or 30% sag, it's a guide / starting point. The guides don't take into account ability, riding style or terrain.

You say you ride aggressively in the alps, you simply need more pressure, try 215 psi, then try 220, 225... Make sure you have a shock pump that you trust, that its accurate and it's the one you use.

All bikes will or can bottom out with a harsh landing, you're trying to find the best compromise from the bike with grip, rolling speed, support etc. Can you find a different line? Could you use your body to absorb the drops better?

For reference I've the same bike and I'm a bit lighter than you, 215/220 was my go to pressure in the rear shock.

 

[bastman]

Wow before anything else thanks so much folks for your answers, I really appreciate you taking the time!

What sag on the X2?

Are you cycling the shock when you add air ?
ie pump the suspension up and down every 20 PSI you add . 70 KG guy should not bottom the suspension if it has correct pressure .
Set sag to 25 - 30 % of shock stroke

25% currently @220psi with 3 tokens, compressing the shock every 50 psi yes, but I could try every 20psi as you suggest.

I do have to run much more pressure on my X2 on my Levo than other bikes. I weigh 140lbs and usually have my shock set at 150psi. On my Levo I have it set to 180psi. My last 2 X2's have leaked air and caused the shock to bottom out on each ride. Is your shock still holding air pressure every ride?

That's a very good question, I only had the bike for about 3 weeks so I'm not certain yet.

Here's a good video how to do it

Thanks a lot, looking at it right now.

It's simply a case of adding more air, the calculator is a guide to get you started and it's just that. It's the same as 27% sag or 30% sag, it's a guide / starting point. The guides don't take into account ability, riding style or terrain.

You say you ride aggressively in the alps, you simply need more pressure, try 215 psi, then try 220, 225... Make sure you have a shock pump that you trust, that its accurate and it's the one you use.

All bikes will or can bottom out with a harsh landing, you're trying to find the best compromise from the bike with grip, rolling speed, support etc. Can you find a different line? Could you use your body to absorb the drops better?

For reference I've the same bike and I'm a bit lighter than you, 215/220 was my go to pressure in the rear shock.

Very good point about having a pump that I trust, really not sure I should trust the same old basic rockshox one I've been using for years, may be time for a more precise one. I also have to make sure the shock isn't loosing air.

Regarding the shock setup I've always been able to setup my previous shocks (CC DB Air, SuperDeluxe, X2) on all my bikes (SB150, Capra 29, Spectral 27,5, Wild FS Team) with enough progressivity for my rides + good small bumps compliance and bottom out control, mostly by ramping up endstroke support through volume reducers. It's the very first time that a sag around 25% still has me bottoming out on the exact same trails with volume reducers maxxed out. That says a lot about the linearity of the Turbo Levo kinematics.

 

[CjP]

Wow before anything else thanks so much folks for your answers, I really appreciate you taking the time!



25% currently @220psi with 3 tokens, compressing the shock every 50 psi yes, but I could try every 20psi as you suggest.


That's a very good question, I only had the bike for about 3 weeks so I'm not certain yet.


Thanks a lot, looking at it right now.


Very good point about having a pump that I trust, really not sure I should trust the same old basic rockshox one I've been using for years, may be time for a more precise one. I also have to make sure the shock isn't loosing air.

Regarding the shock setup I've always been able to setup my previous shocks (CC DB Air, SuperDeluxe, X2) on all my bikes (SB150, Capra 29, Spectral 27,5, Wild FS Team) with enough progressivity for my rides + good small bumps compliance and bottom out control, mostly by ramping up endstroke support through volume reducers. It's the very first time that a sag around 25% still has me bottoming out on the exact same trails with volume reducers maxxed out. That says a lot about the linearity of the Turbo Levo kinematics.

I had similar issues with my old Levo SL, FF Kenevo. I ran above stock travel and used to blow through travel unless filled up with tokens/bands and ran higher pressures. As you suggested it does sacrifice a little small bump compliance.
In the end I went with a large can rear shock (RS Vivid) and added a Secus to my Lyric and that gave me as close to what I wanted. The bike is very linear, there’s nothing you can do about that no matter how many parts you install.
Set up the shock so you don’t bottom out and accept the small bump loss and enjoy. The Cascade will help but you will need more air again.
Otherwise buy a more progressive bike would be my suggestion.

 

[Roundbadge]

Cascade link and Push Eleven six coil.

 

[High Rock Ruti]

Hi everyone!

I've been riding my brand new S3 turbo levo pro for a bit over 3 weeks / 230kms / 6500m of elevation.
I'm 72kg / 77kg fully kitted, and ride quite aggressivly in the French Alps. I will race the bike at the Mountain Of Hell this year.

I followed specialized suspensions calculator settings for both the 38 and x2 (incl. HSC/LSC/LSR/HSR ofc.) up to 82kg (+7% vs my kitted weight) and still lacked some bottom-out control.

I'm now running 92psi + 5 volume reducers (vs the 3 installed) in the fox 38 and i'm getting the end stroke support I needed.

Unfortunately it's not the same story regarding the Fox X2 Factory. Despite 210psi / 3 volume reducers (vs 1 installed, can't add more, that's the max supported by a 210x55), I still bottom out on the hardests flat landings, with occasionally a big nasty sound.

Are there other who experienced this kind of situation with their 2022 Levo? Any solutions to recommend except adding air or HSC (inducing a harsher ride)? Any way to add some other kind of volume reducers ?

Thanks a lot for your support (pun intended).

High Rock Ruti

Your shock needs more air I'm 210 pounds with gear I'm running 230 to 250 psi full stroke no harsh bottom out. About 90 to 95 psi in the 38 grip 2 3 spacers . Very plush off the top compression I run almost wide open I usually adjust mostly with pressure and rebound. Sounds like you ride more aggressively than I do.

What compression settings do you use?

Warm Regards Ruti

 

[KnollyBro]

... 72kg / 77kg fully kitted, and ride quite aggressivly in the French Alps
- lacked some bottom-out control
- 92psi + 5 volume reducers (vs the 3 installed) in the fox 38 and i'm getting the end stroke support I needed.
- Fox X2 Factory 210psi / 3 volume reducers
- still bottom out on the hardests flat landings, with occasionally a big nasty sound.

A very interesting scenario! Since you stated that your sag is set correctly and you are not losing air (I assume you have checked your pressures before and after the ride), my question is how high are these flat landing you are dropping from (5 volume spacers must be a record for someone your weight!)? My wrists, ankles and neck would not be able to handle hitting the ground so hard. Do you happen to have any video as these types of drops?

 

[jm2e]

Hi everyone!

I've been riding my brand new S3 turbo levo pro for a bit over 3 weeks / 230kms / 6500m of elevation.
I'm 72kg / 77kg fully kitted, and ride quite aggressivly in the French Alps. I will race the bike at the Mountain Of Hell this year.

Are there other who experienced this kind of situation with their 2022 Levo? Any solutions to recommend except adding air or HSC (inducing a harsher ride)? Any way to add some other kind of volume reducers ?

Honestly, my thoughts after wife and I riding Tutbo Levos for the past 3 years is; it’s a combination of two things.
1) the Levo is an electric Stumpjumper, which was designed more for pedaling and has a very linear suspension curve.
2) the added weight affects you most when you’re landing jumps, so there's going to be compromise. That extra 20lbs is waaaay more impactful (see what I did there) when landing to flat than it is when just plowing through chunder.
If I had it to do over again, I’d get a Kenevo which is an electric Enduro and has a more progressive suspension curve because it was meant to be jumped and thrown down steep hills.
That said, as good as the X2 is for analog bikes, I don’t think it’s suited to Ebikes. It's got a lot of volume for an air shock and suffered from lack of volume spacer options when it first came out. A lot of big riders back then couldn’t use them. Just adding more air is massively counterproductive because the bike will feel like shit any time you’re not landing a jump. A custom tune will help some, but a smaller volume shock might do you more good.
I’ve got an Ohlins coil on mine, with a Cane Creek progressive spring. It does okay but when I’m doing drops, the cheap non-piggyback OEM air shock does a lot better. I stick with the coil because it rides amazing everywhere else, but I shy away from big drops.
My next plan is to get the Cascade Components progressive link. Since I’ll need one for wife too, Its gonna be a pricy move. Fingers crossed.
Oh, and get Cushcore. For sure!

Edit to add: If I had a 2022 Levo, I'd seriously look into this from Cascade Components and run a longer shock Turbo Levo Long Shock Kit (2022-Current)

 

[Endoguru]

I’m 200lb with gear. I’ve had issues with X2 blowing through the travel on my YT Decoy and Kenevo SL Even with 5 volume spacers. The cheapest and best fix was a custom tune. Fluid Focus did the shock on my Kenevo and it solved all the problems for about $250.00.

 

[SteveRS]

Hey guy’s, new here and just saw this thread. I had the same issues. Let’s start with the fork. You need to do a damper service because fox, in most cases, has far too much grease in the negative side of the damper. This destroys the performance and makes the fork bottom easily with inferior support throughout the stroke with a harsh feeling as well. Once I did the service, which by the way had lots of grease in the negative, the fork has transformed into a fork that is supportive and plush. At 180lbs I went from 5 tokens with 75 psi down to 3 with 105 psi (30% sag). I can run 2 tokens with 110 psi, but prefer the more supple off the top that 3 tokens with less psi provides. I won’t get into compression and rebound setup, as that is a whole different discussion in itself, but here are my settings. Compression settings are from wide open and rebound settings are from closed. I like to ensure I have the correct spring support before I begin to add compression, so that’s why I start from open with compressio. LSR 8 HSR 6 LSC 6 HSC 4. The rear shock was a problem from the start. It became aerated after about five rides. So off to have it rebuilt by fox (under warranty as it should be). Now it seems fine and I have the full amount of tokens installed (3) with 220 psi (30% sag). It still will bottom on occasion, but if I add more support it becomes too harsh. In the near future I think I will add the cascade link to rectify this issue. Settings out back are as follows; LSR 7 LSC 11. Hope this helps.

 

[Jeff H]

Hey all. I got my '22 Expert a week ago and noticed the Fox 38 fork was a little harsh. Also some suck-down no matter how carefully I inflated it while cycling to equalize the chambers. I ordered a 32 mm topcap socket so I can adjust volume spacers and to look inside. Sure enough tons of grease. There's also a lot of resistance when pulling down the lowers and it springs back up quite a bit. I think most would agree there's excessive grease restricting the passageways between pos and neg chambers and also reducing the neg volume.

My question is has anyone had success going the warranty route with your dealer or Fox? Maybe specialized directly? I know I can pay for servicing or even do it myself (watched a few videos but a couple of special tools are needed). As far as I'm concerned this is a manufacture issue but not sure who to turn to and how to approach/convince them. Any advice?

Photo of chamber above piston. Note all the grease on top of the piston.

 

[SteveRS]

Hey all. I got my '22 Expert a week ago and noticed the Fox 38 fork was a little harsh. Also some suck-down no matter how carefully I inflated it while cycling to equalize the chambers. I ordered a 32 mm topcap socket so I can adjust volume spacers and to look inside. Sure enough tons of grease. There's also a lot of resistance when pulling down the lowers and it springs back up quite a bit. I think most would agree there's excessive grease restricting the passageways between pos and neg chambers and also reducing the neg volume.

My question is has anyone had success going the warranty route with your dealer or Fox? Maybe specialized directly? I know I can pay for servicing or even do it myself (watched a few videos but a couple of special tools are needed). As far as I'm concerned this is a manufacture issue but not sure who to turn to and how to approach/convince them. Any advice?

Photo of chamber above piston. Note all the grease on top of the piston.

View attachment 90038

Yup, that’s very typical. I’d be curious to see what the damper itself looks like on the negative side. Probably cacked thick with grease. If you’re not interested in doing it yourself, which is pretty easy by the way I did it myself, then I would go talk to your local bike store where you bought the bike. They may be able to get reimbursed by Fox to do the service for you.

 

[Jeff H]

Yup, that’s very typical. I’d be curious to see what the damper itself looks like on the negative side. Probably cacked thick with grease. If you’re not interested in doing it yourself, which is pretty easy by the way I did it myself, then I would go talk to your local bike store where you bought the bike. They may be able to get reimbursed by Fox to do the service for you.

I’d prefer to do it myself to see how bad it is plus if you want it done right etc…
A little hesitant though since it’s only a week old. Screw it up and I own it.

Did you buy the bullet tool and vise jaws? I’m having a hard time finding them online, even on Fox’s website.

For starters I’m taking it to the bike shop in a bit and go from there.

 

[SteveRS]

I’d prefer to do it myself to see how bad it is plus if you want it done right etc…
A little hesitant though since it’s only a week old. Screw it up and I own it.

Did you buy the bullet tool and vise jaws? I’m having a hard time finding them online, even on Fox’s website.

For starters I’m taking it to the bike shop in a bit and go from there.

Definitely do it yourself, it’s not hard. The following is the best video on the process. There’s actually two videos because the other video shows you how to take it apart. You can also go to Fox online and download the process as well just to follow along. Yes I bought the bullet tool and jaws. I got the bullet tool from the local bike store and ordered plastic jaws online. If you do it on your own, hold the lowers down when you take the air out so the fork doesn’t compress otherwise the damper will be compressed inside the inner tube. That happened to me. It wasn’t a big deal I just used a smooth piece of wood and pushed the damper all the way back to the bottom so it equalized the pressure so I could remove it.

 

[Jeff H]

Definitely do it yourself, it’s not hard. The following is the best video on the process. There’s actually two videos because the other video shows you how to take it apart. You can also go to Fox online and download the process as well just to follow along. Yes I bought the bullet tool and jaws. I got the bullet tool from the local bike store and ordered plastic jaws online. If you do it on your own, hold the lowers down when you take the air out so the fork doesn’t compress otherwise the damper will be compressed inside the inner tube. That happened to me. It wasn’t a big deal I just used a smooth piece of wood and pushed the damper all the way back to the bottom so it equalized the pressure so I could remove it.

Thanks for the tips, Steve. Yup, I already found those videos which started me down this road .
Talked to the seller and we agreed it's ok for me to contact Fox directly so just sent an email with photos. Hopefully no hassle and fixed under warranty. I'm in SF bay area Cali and their service center is one state over in Nevada. They used to be an hour drive away and you could drop-off.

 

[SteveRS]

Thanks for the tips, Steve. Yup, I already found those videos which started me down this road .
Talked to the seller and we agreed it's ok for me to contact Fox directly so just sent an email with photos. Hopefully no hassle and fixed under warranty. I'm in SF bay area Cali and their service center is one state over in Nevada. They used to be an hour drive away and you could drop-off.

Good to hear Jeff. It’s time we start holding Fox accountable. They obviously know what’s happening and don’t seem to care to do anything about it. It’s too bad really. You are really going to like the performance after the damper service.