2022 Trek Rail 9.8 Bosch motor cuts out

[evilmtb]

Anyone else with a Trek Rail or a Bosch Performance Line CX motor experienced frequent motor shut off?


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The TLDR Solution:
Affix some high density foam, or rubber as a spacer on top of the battery. This will prevent vertical movement of the battery which causes the terminals to disconnect and results in the system shutting down. See the photos below.

Pro Tip: Use velcro and/or electrical tape on the spacer to prevent it from squishing backwards against the battery. In the photos below, you can see that I didn't do that. On my first ride, the spacer moved backwards allowing the battery to move vertically which shut the the system down. I used some industrial strength velcro to affix it and rode the bike for 20 miles over rough terrain without failure.

Unfortunately, it appears that the vertical movement of the battery has already caused damage to the battery connectors and mount that Bosch and/or Trek will have to fix under warranty. For that, see the longer story below.



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The Long Story
I'll document and update my experience here for future readers. Hopefully this helps others save some time and headache.

Note to any Trek or Bosch folks that happen across this thread. Pass this on to your product folks before any independent YouTubers with some real influence experience this issue.


Process So Far

Day 1

• Called the LBS to explain the situation and was instructed to drop in for a quick diagnostics run.
• Learned that there are no tools available for running your own diagnostics even though it's a simple USBc connection and some basic software.
• Drove down to the LBS, let them run the first round of diagnostics that indicated frequent power shut offs due to voltage drop.

Day 10

• Per the Bosch Warranty process they sent a new power cable harness ($44 part).
• Replaced the main power cable harness.
• I also checked the continuity on all of the controller wires with a volt meter just to be sure everything was working.
• I made sure the extra headlight wire was capped (it wasn't so I capped it)

Day 11

• Returned to the shop for another diagnostic (per the warranty process from Bosch).
• They updated the firmware and still saw that there was some kind of warning but did not specify what it was.

Day 13

• Took if for a test ride
• The problem persisted and was actually even worse

Day 14

• Researched battery alignment process and followed the instructions per the Trek alignment Bulletin
• Followed the process to check the battery alignment
• Scheduled time with the local bike shop to run another diagnostic report

Day 16

• Took the bike to the LBS for another Diagnostic check
• Results came back with a new warning that may indicate a bad cell in the battery
• Results sent to Bosch by the LBS
• Now waiting with no ETA on a response... so just waiting.

Day 17

• Called Trek to ask about the warranty and to find out if there's anything they can to do help.
• See the Trek Customer Care response below.

Day 20

• Local Bike shop called. Bosch responded and wants pictures of the bike that only the local bike shop is allowed or capable of taking. There will be labor costs that Bosch will NOT cover but the the LBS will try to get it covered by Trek.

Day 25

• Took bike to the local shop

Day 28

• Picked the bike back up.
• Tech informed me that the connectors on the female end of the battery appeared to be bent.
• All photos have been sent to Bosch for review
• Now we wait.

Current Status
Riding and Waiting. At least the I can ride and restart the motor. Winter is coming. I'm hoping to get this fixed ASAP.


Trek Customer Care Response
I had a long conversation with Trek Warranty folks. Unfortunately, this is 100% Bosch and the Bosch process has to be followed by your Local Bike Shop (LBS) if there's an issue. As far as shop time costs are concerned, the LBS can submit a request to Trek to cover labor but it's no guarantee.


Right to Repair Laws
Doing a little research on Right to Repair federal and state laws. At the moment, Bosch is within their legal rights to withhold access to diagnostics and repair tools. However, there are currently state and federal laws moving through legislation that will change that. It's being driven, in large part, by the farming industry. However, it will most likely apply to other industries. The outcome would be that companies like Bosch would not be allowed to withhold the tools necessary for at home diagnostics and repair. Something the EMBT community would benefit from IMHO.


Possible Solution
I have been able to replicate the electric shut off. On a test ride tonight I noticed that the Battery rattles up and down. Meaning it moves along the length of the frame. You can grab the battery and slide it up towards the handle bars. I turned the bike on, grabbed the battery, slid it towards the bars and the electrics turned off.

This makes sense considering that the shutoff would normally occur on choppy terrain or washboard roads. This is the type of terrain that would induce this type of movement of the battery.

The solution I am trying is to place a small piece of high density foam on the top of the battery. See the images below. One without and then one with the foam. With the foam in place, you can no longer move the battery in a way that allows it to disconnect.

Here is the battery without the foam.

Here is the battery with the small foam piece placed in the notch on the top back side of the battery.

I'll post the results after my next test ride in a couple of days.

Solution Results
Worked on half the trail, then the bike started to cutout again. I think the problem was that the foam squished and moved so that it was no longer effectively stopping the vertical movement of the Battery.

Solution Re-Factor
Fabricated a more stable spacer that doesn't move and squish backwards against the battery. This solution is working so far. I'll post pics later.

 

[BuzzinHornets]

Absent from your list of checked items is battery alignment. If you are unwilling or unable to check and adjust this yourself I recommend having your shop check this.

 

[Driller_AU]

Big thread in the Trek sub forum on this
(1) Rail 9.7 shutting off...finally fixed?? - EMTB Forums

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Anyone else with a Trek Rail or a Bosch Performance Line CX motor experienced frequent motor shut offs?

I've had it to a local shop. They claim that there's no way the motor is bad or has a problem simply because they've never seen it happen. However...

- Ran diagnostics
- Replaced the power cables
- I checked the continuity on all of the controller wires as well as the power wires
- I made sure the extra headlight wire was capped
- Updated the firmware
- Re-Ran the diagnostics and showed no problems

Went for the first ride after all that today and the moment you start peddling through any chunky stuff, the motor just shuts off.

BTW... the most frustrating thing is that the Bosch warranty process requires a lot of back and forth with the bike shop and apparently Bosch doesn't cover the labor costs. At the same time, they say if you do the work and a shop doesn't then they will void the warranty. I love the bike, but this is just silly.

Has anyone else experienced this and does anyone have any advice?

Does the LED remote flash orange and cycle down to power off?

I also suspect battery may be faulty here if so…

 

[evilmtb]

Does the LED remote flash orange and cycle down to power off?

I also suspect battery may be faulty here if so…

I haven't watched the light color when the motor shuts off but I'll check that.

 

[evilmtb]

Absent from your list of checked items is battery alignment. If you are unwilling or unable to check and adjust this yourself I recommend having your shop check this.

I'm sure I can check this and align it if there's some kind of spec or procedure on it.
Do you know of any procedure for this that Trek or Bosch publish?

 

[Orangie]

Battery breaking contact. Check plug, prongs in battery should be touching. Usually caused from battery jumping around

 

[evilmtb]

I've spent hours trying to find an alignment procedure that may be specific for the 2022 Rail. I've found a bulletin for the 2019. That seems to be for a problem with the battery actually departing the bike. I used that to check the alignment and torque setting on the T-25 bolts. I'll get, yet another diagnostic report from the LBS, and then hit a test ride this week and see what happens.

If anyone happens to have a battery alignment procedure for the 2022 model, please share it.

 

[Dave_B]

Rail (625Wh) - Trek RIB Battery Alignment Procedure - Updated

Updated RIB Battery Alignment Procedure, includes some new parts.

www.emtbforums.com

 

[Charliektm400exc]

My wife had problems with her Bosch motor shutting down. Turned out to be loose magnets in the mount for the controller.
charlie

 

[Freakapottamuss]

I had the same thing. Apparently it was a faulty cell in the battery that made it think it was overheating so it shut the motor down.

 

[Mikerb]

Does the LED remote flash orange and cycle down to power off?

I also suspect battery may be faulty here if so…

Not familiar with Trek.....are these latest reports of powering off the Bosch Smart System or the previous gen?

 

[evilmtb]

Not familiar with Trek.....are these latest reports of powering off the Bosch Smart System or the previous gen?

This is happing on my 2022 Trek Rail 9.8.
This is the Bosch Smart system with the latest Performance CX motor.

 

[evilmtb]

Quick Update.

Message from the Local Bike Shop is...
"We've had to do battery alignments for more than a dozen trek rails. On the new bikes we have to remove the spacer bar in order to do the alignment as it's not possible with the spacer bar in the bike. It doesn't void the warranty."

Also... they are giving me advice and allowing me to do the work to avoid high labor costs. But the back and forth requires a lot of trips to run diagnostics, since we can't have the software to do it ourselves, which is completely stupid.

 

[Mikerb]

In which case the main battery alignment problems of previous years may be a red herring for you. When the bike cuts out are you able to restart it straight away? When on a ride does it cut out?
On the Bosch Smart System the LED Remote has a 3.7v rechargeable battery and is charged by the main battery. If the LED Remote battery goes flat the bike will power off. The battery has both pos and neg wires and a signal wire which I assume enables it to switch the charging circuit on/off depending on its state of charge. If that aspect has become faulty it may be the cause of your problems.

 

[Bigfathairybiker]

Take it back and claim it is not fit for purpose?
It should also last a reasonable amount of time. Both of which the shop purchased from are legally required to resolve if the bike is less than six months old. They should also cover all labour and parts costs.
This is of course only valid in UK consumer law.

Edit: just noticed OP isn't in UK
...

 

[evilmtb]

In which case the main battery alignment problems of previous years may be a red herring for you. When the bike cuts out are you able to restart it straight away? When on a ride does it cut out?
On the Bosch Smart System the LED Remote has a 3.7v rechargeable battery and is charged by the main battery. If the LED Remote battery goes flat the bike will power off. The battery has both pos and neg wires and a signal wire which I assume enables it to switch the charging circuit on/off depending on its state of charge. If that aspect has become faulty it may be the cause of your problems.

The cutoff only occurs during a ride and only when I'm riding over heavy chatter.
When it cuts off, I can restart it immediately by powering it back on.
That said, it's super annoying because... You have to wait a few seconds because it powers off gracefully, which takes about 5 seconds. Then you have to start it, which takes a few seconds. Then you have to shift into whatever power mode you want. Normally, you're doing all of this while you're at speed if you want to maintain your momentum.

 

[evilmtb]

so trek made a bike with a batt alignment problem and the lbs is charging you to fix it under warranty ?

This is the thing that bugs me the most...
It's clearly a Warranty issue. However, Bosch and I guess Trek, requires you to go through a lengthy triage process to determine the problem. The warranty may cover the parts, but from what I can tell, it doesn't cover shop labor. If it turns out you have a faulty power wire harness, that's $44 dollars. But to get there, you have to spend $500. Frankly, I would rather spend that money on a brake upgrade because the brakes on this bike are not suitable for any real trail riding. I digress...

Furthermore, Bosch requires that diagnostics run at a shop and unless you are a Bosch dealer, you can't access the software to run the diagnostics. In short, you are forced to work through a shop, they can charge you if they like, and Bosch / Trek may or may not cover it.

Knowing this, my advice to anyone looking at EMTBs is to take a hard look at the warranty. So far, I love this bike but not a lot of great things to say about Bosch and Trek. Maybe I should have opted for the Yeti E165.

 

[Isaacgrx]

This is the thing that bugs me the most...
It's clearly a Warranty issue. However, Bosch and I guess Trek, requires you to go through a lengthy triage process to determine the problem. The warranty may cover the parts, but from what I can tell, it doesn't cover shop labor. If it turns out you have a faulty power wire harness, that's $44 dollars. But to get there, you have to spend $500. Frankly, I would rather spend that money on a brake upgrade because the brakes on this bike are not suitable for any real trail riding. I digress...

Furthermore, Bosch requires that diagnostics run at a shop and unless you are a Bosch dealer, you can't access the software to run the diagnostics. In short, you are forced to work through a shop, they can charge you if they like, and Bosch / Trek may or may not cover it.

Knowing this, my advice to anyone looking at EMTBs is to take a hard look at the warranty. So far, I love this bike but not a lot of great things to say about Bosch and Trek. Maybe I should have opted for the Yeti E165.

That is absolute BS. If you bought a Trek from a shop and it has a fault the shop should cover any troubleshooting and then deal with trek/bosch themselves, that is literally their job and why you buy a bike from a store rather than online.

 

[evilmtb]

That is absolute BS. If you bought a Trek from a shop and it has a fault the shop should cover any troubleshooting and then deal with trek/bosch themselves, that is literally their job and why you buy a bike from a store rather than online.

To be fair... I bought the bike, then I moved a long ways away about a month later. There's no way I can get back to the shop. This is actually not an uncommon problem. Another situation is that many people have to find a bike elsewhere because the supply is so low that the local shop can't get what you need. For example, ask your local shop for a Trek Rail 9.8 or 9.8 with a GX AXS system. They likely won't have it. I know a lot of folks that have called shops all over the country looking for a specific bike, purchased it, and then used Bike Flights to get it.

 

[Isaacgrx]

To be fair... I bought the bike, then I moved a long ways away about a month later. There's no way I can get back to the shop. This is actually not an uncommon problem. Another situation is that many people have to find a bike elsewhere because the supply is so low that the local shop can't get what you need. For example, ask your local shop for a Trek Rail 9.8 or 9.8 with a GX AXS system. They likely won't have it. I know a lot of folks that have called shops all over the country looking for a specific bike, purchased it, and then used Bike Flights to get it.

Ahh well them charging you labour makes a lot more sense now, I assumed it was the shop you bought the bike from. Any bike shop would do that with any item not from them.

 

[evilmtb]

Ahh well them charging you labour makes a lot more sense now, I assumed it was the shop you bought the bike from. Any bike shop would do that with any item not from them.

Not do divert too much here but, this is what's currently difficult with E-Bikes if you have an issue. You may not be able to work on it on your own because you may void the warranty and/or because the MFG doesn't allow access to the tools necessary to troubleshoot and fix it.

For a new bike, you just dropped 10K and you kind of expect it to work or to get support from the MFG. If it was a car, any dealer will work on it and get reimbursed by the MFG for warranty work, including the labor. Some bikes are as high a 15K. That's as much as a new Ducati.

For a new or used bike, it would be nice to have access to the tools so you can fix it and get back on the trail. Cost aside, our local shops have a massive wait time. If you can't work on your own bike, the summer is basically over for you .

 

[Paul Mac]

Unfortunately my 2022 9.8 has just started doing the power cut off thing.
It's weird because I have just completed a 220 mile ride over a week and it was faultless, but yesterday it turned itself off numerous times.
I took the battery out when I got home and all seems fine!
I've cleaned the contacts and also removed the damper plate I had installed just in case it's that pushing the contacts apart
Riding again today to see if it still does it

 

[evilmtb]

Unfortunately my 2022 9.8 has just started doing the power cut off thing.
It's weird because I have just completed a 220 mile ride over a week and it was faultless, but yesterday it turned itself off numerous times.
I took the battery out when I got home and all seems fine!
I've cleaned the contacts and also removed the damper plate I had installed just in case it's that pushing the contacts apart
Riding again today to see if it still does it

And here's where it would be nice to run a diagnostics tool so that you don't have to go through a weeks long back and forth with the local bike shop, Trek and Bosch. It almost seems like it would be in the best interest of Bosch and Trek to allow folks to simply...
- plug in the USBC cable
- click a button
- share the results

It's almost a forehead snappingly obvious decision.

 

[irie]

Suggestion: borrow another battery from your LBS and see if you get the same problem with it.

 

[evilmtb]

Suggestion: borrow another battery from your LBS and see if you get the same problem with it.

That's a pretty good idea. With the way I ride and where I ride, they may not want that Battery Back I tend to pick up a lot of nicks and scratches on the local trails.

 

[Paul Mac]

Well did a 30 mile ride with plenty of jumps and rough terrain, worked faultlessly.
So in my case I feel this is definitely a battery connection issue and that none of the hardware is faulty.
Trek definitely need to get in top of their battery mounting method.

 

[irie]

That's a pretty good idea. With the way I ride and where I ride, they may not want that Battery Back I tend to pick up a lot of nicks and scratches on the local trails.

Swapping the battery into your cover is an easy job, took me about 10 minutes. Thread on here somewhere on how to do it.

Edit: Rail battery cover removal - EMTB Forums

 

[Secret Agent]

Anyone else with a Trek Rail or a Bosch Performance Line CX motor experienced frequent motor shut off?

I'll document and update my experience here for future readers. Hopefully this helps others save some time and headache.

Note to any Trek or Bosch folks that happen across this thread. Pass this on to your product folks before any independent YouTubers with some real influence experience this issue.


Process So Far

Day 1

• Called the LBS to explain the situation and was instructed to drop in for a quick diagnostics run.
• Learned that there are no tools available for running your own diagnostics even though it's a simple USBc connection and some basic software.
• Drove down to the LBS, let them run the first round of diagnostics that indicated frequent power shut offs due to voltage drop.

Day 10

• Per the Bosch Warranty process they sent a new power cable harness ($44 part).
• Replaced the main power cable harness.
• I also checked the continuity on all of the controller wires with a volt meter just to be sure everything was working.
• I made sure the extra headlight wire was capped (it wasn't so I capped it)

Day 11

• Returned to the shop for another diagnostic (per the warranty process from Bosch).
• They updated the firmware and still saw that there was some kind of warning but did not specify what it was.

Day 13

• Took if for a test ride
• The problem persisted and was actually even worse

Day 14

• Researched battery alignment process and followed the instructions per the Trek alignment Bulletin
• Followed the process to check the battery alignment
• Scheduled time with the local bike shop to run another diagnostic report

Day 16

• Took the bike to the LBS for another Diagnostic check
• Results came back with a new warning that may indicate a bad cell in the battery
• Results sent to Bosch by the LBS
• Now waiting with no ETA on a response... so just waiting.

Day 17

• Called Trek to ask about the warranty and to find out if there's anything they can to do help.
• See the Trek Customer Care response below.

Current Status
Riding and Waiting. At least the I can ride and restart the motor. Winter is coming. I'm hoping to get this fixed ASAP.


Trek Customer Care Response
I had a long conversation with Trek Warranty folks. Unfortunately, this is 100% Bosch and the Bosch process has to be followed by your Local Bike Shop (LBS) if there's an issue. As far as shop time costs are concerned, the LBS can submit a request to Trek to cover labor but it's no guarantee.


Right to Repair Laws
Doing a little research on Right to Repair federal and state laws. At the moment, Bosch is within their legal rights to withhold access to diagnostics and repair tools. However, there are currently state and federal laws moving through legislation that will change that. It's being driven, in large part, by the farming industry. However, it will most likely apply to other industries. The outcome would be that companies like Bosch would not be allowed to withhold the tools necessary for at home diagnostics and repair. Something the EMBT community would benefit from IMHO.

Same issue Bosch system. Warranty finally got the battery replaced. Problem was solved.

 

[Dave_B]

The long and short of it is that the battery mounts in the Rail are very poorly designed.

I had loads of noise from my battery (brand new 9.8) and it did cut out on several occasions going through the trail chunder. I read the new battery alignment procedure but ended up taking the bike back to the shop to be fixed.

the battery alignment document states that you must make sure the plate is flat and not bowed in any direction. This, I think, is still the cause of the issue.

this is how the tech has fixed my rattle and I can report it works and I can also report that the bike no longer powers off. This is not an official Trek fix, but the tech at my local shop is a Trek Rail rider/owner and knows his shit when it comes the Trek bikes.

look how much bow there is in the plate. To me this is a sure sign that the mounts (with a flat plate) are too far apart. I am still using the foam damper on the lower mount.

my battery is now held tight and does not move. Note the thick solid rubber pads that the tech installed to support the rigidity of the top plate.

the battery installs in the same way, but requires a very solid push to get it past the latch and you have to use the key to close the latch down.

i rode over very Rooty trails with this new fix and it held firm with zero issues.