2022 Rocky Mountain new Altitude Powerplay

[thbo]

First off, I’m amazed Rocky Mountain still doesn’t have its own specific forum although several have asked for it many times before, (EDIT: Now resolved. You are in it.) as if they haven’t been around making mountain bikes for 40 years and winning EWS and enduro bike of the year with a legendary bike model which their eMTBs are closer to in geometry than other manufacturer’s emtb vs mtb. They should also be more interesting as a manufacturer on an *emtb* forum by not using one of the same 4 (full power) off the shelves generic motor/battery/display packages, but their own unique system too (which won the climbing stages of the EWS-E last year btw). Anyways, I digress…

I got to preorder the 2022 RM Altitude Powerplay C90 Rally Edition (blindly) and thought we could collect discussions of it in this thread.

The new 2022 Altitude Powerplays are supposed to officially launch this September and it’s currently under embargo (so I thought we should respect the visual part of that, and not take away the wow effect, by not posting any photos from eg. dealer workbooks etc.).

We know this though (from tidbits in other posts in this forum):

- It brings the geo up to speed with the analog New Altitude (pretty identical, in line with their emtb mantra) including new variable chainstay length.
- There’s a new Powerplay system which of course always means smaller motor (especially since Dyname 3.0 has had the most intrusive motor cover size being off crank and unchanged since 2017), but same-ish torque apparently.
- There’s a larger capacity battery of over 700Wh.
- Follows the the rather nice trend of minimal integrated displays (the minimal cockpit is one of the reasons I went with Rocky in the first place). (EDIT: in the top tube)

In addition:
- The new Altitude replaces Instinct BC for the Powerplay lineup as well. Which means the new long travel Powerplay (Altitude) in size Large has a longer wheelbase and reach than the last one (Instinct BC) in XL.
- The C90 Rally Edition comes only with a DHX2 Factory coil (and also 38 Factory fork as the 2021 Instinct Powerplay C90 BC it replaces), also seen on some analog Altitude “Coil” models.
- Less cogs in the motor area. Less noise? (not that it was as annoying as YouTube testers would have you think, while forgetting none are as silent when coasting or going downhill)

What I’m hoping for:
- New own branded (non-third party) app with a dedicated team which makes sure it is up to date and working(!). And also that they’re either ditching the Mahle internal control system or engaging with them much more closely. Though I’m hoping they’re still thinking of continuing with a companion Apple Watch app (easy HR, haptic feedback and navigation/logging control).
- That Dyname has copied the “emtb mode” from Bosch, or crafted some kind of their own intelligent automatic assist level switching mode, as this is surely what is coming from all motor manufacturers next. This also means more sensors (additionally for gear shift, gyro, etc). And more assist levels?
- More motor adjustments possible in app. Fazua is leading here, but market leading Bosch is the opposite so who knows what is smart to offer business wise. (EDIT: Bosch's new "Smart Bike System" and new "Flow app" provides tuning as of 01.09.2021).
- That turbo/ludicrous mode (and the motor in general) uses less battery juice. Ludicrous is ridiculous in that regard (just fun to say). Just enough battery to win the climbing stages with ludicrous mode in EWS-E is not necessarily the kind of consumption I need for my typical day trips. We still want to be able to kick in class leading torque though so I see the dilemma… Ditching turbo for longish trips leaves only 2 modes and of course you want to feel full power sometimes, so any automatic or more “intelligent” mode would probably help.
- That they’re still at 48V or more in the electrical system, for charging speed and efficiency (and probably torque).
- A walk mode which is not static and dependant on gearing to smallest cog when you are probably on the largest just prior…
- Dynamic and intelligent range estimation on the display (not *instantly* changing estimation to scare you shitless on a sudden ludicrous climb).
- That the motors have not lost the natural feeling and absolutely instant reaction which I fall in love with over and over whenever I have tested another motor on another emtb (including the aforementioned Bosch gen4). I guess this means I would prefer it if they still only assisted based on rider torque (as opposed to crank/wheel movement).

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

1. New RM Forum created
2. I want to try get a test of the 2022 Altitude!

 

[thbo]

1. You just totally redeemed yourself ! Joking aside, I couldn’t believe there was any conspiracy or ill will, just the normal internet fight of getting someone with admin rights’ attention at the right time. This is great! Being without FB I love that we have a dedicated RM forum here now.

2. You should! They have seldom been in group tests or early model life testing at all. Even though [cue all the reasons mentioned at the top]. They are apparently in an embargo mode still for the 2022 Powerplays so maybe you should contact them in case they’re still thinking too traditional media wise ? There may be some top specs in Britain already.

OT: Really looking forward to seeing whether RM have just caught up with their emtbs (in their own unique way) or are ahead in more ways than before. (There’s obviously a missing alternative here on purpose).

 

[thbo]

We know this though (from tidbits in other posts in this forum):

- It brings the geo up to speed with the analog New Altitude (pretty identical, in line with their emtb mantra) including new variable chainstay length.
- There’s a new Powerplay system which of course always means smaller motor (especially since Dyname 3.0 has had the most intrusive motor cover size being off crank and unchanged since 2017), but same-ish torque apparently.
- There’s a larger capacity battery of over 700Wh.
- Follows the the rather nice trend of minimal integrated displays (the minimal cockpit is one of the reasons I went with Rocky in the first place).

In addition:
- The new Altitude replaces Instinct BC for the Powerplay lineup as well. Which means the new long travel Powerplay in size Large is longer (wheelbase etc.) than the last one in XL.
- The C90 Rally Edition comes only with a DHX2 Factory coil (and also 38 Factory fork as the 2021 Instinct Powerplay C90 BC it replaces), also seen on some analog Altitude “Coil” models.
- Less cogs in the motor area. Less noise? (not that it was as annoying as YouTube testers would have you think, while forgetting none are as silent when coasting or going downhill)

What I’m hoping for:
- New own branded (non-third party) app with a dedicated team which makes sure it is up to date and working(!). And also that they’re either ditching the Mahle internal control system or engaging with them much more closely. Though I’m hoping they’re still thinking of continuing with a companion Apple Watch app (easy HR, haptic feedback and navigation/logging control).
- That Dyname has copied the “emtb mode” from Bosch, or crafted some kind of their own intelligent automatic assist level switching mode, as this is surely what is coming from all motor manufacturers next. This also means more sensors (additionally for gear shift, gyro, etc). And more assist levels?
- More motor adjustments possible in app. Fazua is leading here, but market leading Bosch is the opposite so who knows what is smart to offer business wise.
- That turbo/ludicrous mode (and the motor in general) uses less battery juice. Ludicrous is ridiculous in that regard (just fun to say). Just enough battery to win the climbing stages with ludicrous mode in EWS-E is not necessarily the kind of consumption I need for my typical day trips. We still want to be able to use class leading torque though so I see the dilemma… Ditching turbo for longish trips leaves only 2 modes and of course you want to feel full power sometimes, so any automatic or more “intelligent” mode would probably help.
- That they’re still at 48V or more in the electrical system, for charging speed and efficiency (and probably torque).
- A walk mode which is not static and dependant on gearing to smallest cog when you are probably on the largest just prior…
- Dynamic and intelligent range estimation on the display (not *instantly* changing estimation to scare you shitless on a sudden ludicrous climb).
- That the motors have not lost the natural feeling and absolutely instant reaction which I fall in love with over and over whenever I have tested another motor on another emtb (including the aforementioned Bosch gen4). I guess this means I would prefer it if they still only assisted based on rider torque (as opposed to crank/wheel movement).

Oh, and surely, just left out of my wishlist because it is a given in 2021;
- System/motor firmware updates OTA in app.

 

[Dan63]

I cannot fathom how some people complain this motor is "noisy"? The motor itself makes near no noise, there is just a rumble from the chain. No whining like yamaha, shimano, bosch etc. The only motor that is quieter is probably the belt driven brose. The DynaMe 3.0 is way quieter than my E8000 was, definitely doesn't sound like a typical "ebike".

"That Dyname has copied the “emtb mode” from Bosch, or crafted some kind of their own intelligent automatic assist level switching mode, as this is surely what is coming from all motor manufacturers next. This also means more sensors (additionally for gear shift, gyro, etc). And more assist levels?"

The current motor already has this. Each of the 3 modes are reactive and motor output is varied based on your pedal input. You're just capping the max power/assistance percentage with what you select on each mode. I have mine set to 37/66/100%

 

[Zed]

No whining like yamaha, shimano, bosch etc. The only motor that is quieter is probably the belt driven brose. The DynaMe 3.0 is way quieter than my E8000 was, definitely doesn't sound like a typical "ebike".

My Bosch takes exception to being lumped in with Shimano and Yamaha for whiney-ness
Seriously though, on my Orbea Wild it's pretty much on par with my old Levo, and a lot quieter than my e8000 was.

 

[thbo]

I cannot fathom how some people complain this motor is "noisy"? The motor itself makes near no noise, there is just a rumble from the chain. No whining like yamaha, shimano, bosch etc. The only motor that is quieter is probably the belt driven brose. The DynaMe 3.0 is way quieter than my E8000 was, definitely doesn't sound like a typical "ebike".

"That Dyname has copied the “emtb mode” from Bosch, or crafted some kind of their own intelligent automatic assist level switching mode, as this is surely what is coming from all motor manufacturers next. This also means more sensors (additionally for gear shift, gyro, etc). And more assist levels?"

The current motor already has this. Each of the 3 modes are reactive and motor output is varied based on your pedal input. You're just capping the max power/assistance percentage with what you select on each mode. I have mine set to 37/66/100%

Hard agreement on the «motor noise». It’s the chain (glider), not the motor, and not bad at all if properly maintained like with all chain and cogs. And immediately dead quiet when let go unlike those mentioned.

Sort of agree on “reactive as auto”, but can’t that be said of all motors and Bosch pre-emtb mode too then? Bosch’s emtb mode can be said to automatically “move the cap” according to gyro, gear shift sensor, etc then (probably more parameters than “cap” too). As I understand it ludicrous mode pulls a higher amperage from the motor than eco and then it would only attempt to do this when needed and not kick that in on every pedal push on flat trail inbetween hurdles.

Also, sidenote, as I have understood it even a 50-50-50 motor tuning setting would leave three distinctive modes on the Dyname 3.0 because we are capping three predefined modes with other predefined parameters too (so it’s not a straight forward diagram of max power output over modes).

 

[Eddy Current]

as an owner im very happy for the new ebike coming and for the subforum as well

im only wish they still offer the 500wh battery as an option

powerline ebikes im not going to say they are better than other ebikes, but they are and they ride different no question

im 99% to repeat with them

 

[thbo]

as an owner im very happy for the new ebike coming and for the subforum as well

im only wish they still offer the 500wh battery as an option

powerline ebikes im not going to say they are better than other ebikes, but they are and they ride different no question

im 99% to repeat with them

This is unlikely, but think if RM was even further ahead by offering av two part battery (easily and accessibly) slid up one after another so you could take both at the 700+ Wh in total, the 400Wh or the little rest for that quickie with a bike weighing several kilos less? Could both use and charge both batteries as oneWould have been elegant, although an external extender in a bottle cage vertically straight above an internal battery (of 4-500Wh), like some low power bikes (capacities aside), would give a better weight distribution of course.

I too am very excited about RMs future models, and think they have (apart from the motor, emtb geometry philosophy, and mtb heritage) a certain something always differentiating their ride from other emtbs. I’ve test ridden 7 emtb brands incl 4 different motor brands. Early on I tested a RM Instinct Powerplay and loved it, although I at the time opted for the more known and popular Levo Comp, thinking I was more of noob than the RM was special. When that Brose motor went tits up I already had the RM dealer’s site up as a tab in my browser. My Instinct PP C90 BC is a juggernaut refusing to die but I had to do my part for the Canadian smaller-time bike business during a pandemic and preorder the new Altitude PP (excused like this in many ways) The outgoing PP is of course no award winning or EWS winning 2021 Altitude but has some flaws too, mainly from the controller/communication bus’ design age, and for all I know the new one could be a dud, but I just think it’s unlikely.

 

[Rip7]

Looking at pre ordering one myself but until I see the colours etc available not sure and I had the old altitude pp in large so not sure what size to order either if they changed it a lot I've read that it's now a 29er which I'm fine with.

 

[thbo]

Looking at pre ordering one myself but until I see the colours etc available not sure and I had the old altitude pp in large so not sure what size to order either if they changed it a lot I've read that it's now a 29er which I'm fine with.

Sizing was a bigger problem than anticipated for me too. It’s a big change in geometry, and as I said the new long travel Powerplay (Altitude) in size Large has a longer wheelbase and reach than the last one in XL (Instinct BC).

I opted for “the darkest one” without having really seen a real image, thus safeguarding me against crazy bright colors (although my current is orange and purple…). The new analog Altitude has a pink version after all (which grows on me but still..).

 

[thbo]

This is unlikely, but think if RM was even further ahead by offering av two part battery (easily and accessibly) slid up one after another so you could take both at the 700+ Wh in total, the 400Wh or the little rest for that quickie with a bike weighing several kilos less? Could both use and charge both batteries as oneWould have been elegant, although an external extender in a bottle cage vertically straight above an internal battery (of 4-500Wh), like some low power bikes (capacities aside), would give a better weight distribution of course.

I too am very excited about RMs future models, and think they have (apart from the motor, emtb geometry philosophy, and mtb heritage) a certain something always differentiating their ride from other emtbs. I’ve test ridden 7 emtb brands incl 4 different motor brands. Early on I tested a RM Instinct Powerplay and loved it, although I at the time opted for the more known and popular Levo Comp, thinking I was more of noob than the RM was special. When that Brose motor went tits up I already had the RM dealer’s site up as a tab in my browser. My Instinct PP C90 BC is a juggernaut refusing to die but I had to do my part for the Canadian smaller-time bike business during a pandemic and preorder the new Altitude PP (excused like this in many ways) The outgoing PP is of course no award winning or EWS winning 2021 Altitude but has some flaws too, mainly from the controller/communication bus’ design age, and for all I know the new one could be a dud, but I just think it’s unlikely.

Looks like the current battery solution will continue and that there is an Overtimepack version 2.0 of (still) 330Wh which brings the total to a maximum capacity of 1052Wh on a Powerplay for 2022.

This is a much better weight distribution for this much capacity after all, than eg. Norco etc who crams 900+Wh into the down tube. I heard Trek had to slightly change geometry on Rail for 2022 to accommodate even the new 750Wh Bosch Powertube batteries.

 

[Nigel_Fox]

Hey great to see a RM forum up and running....I've pre-ordered a new Altitude as an upgrade on my current 2020 Instinct BC PP and i've heard rumours of a high pivot style idler (get rid of chain noise) and a removable battery....

 

[thbo]

Yeah, well the battery *is* removable, but not Bosch Powertube (eg. Trek Rail) removable. You will have to turn your bike upside down, unscrew and take it out, but it’s doable. Beats having to take out the motor to get at it.

Isn’t a “high pivot style” idler what they had before turning to a glider on the Dyname 3.0? I had the impression it would be a more conventional chain guide for Dyname 4.0 and leave a much simpler look to the chain drive side.

 

[thbo]

Heard chatter about imminent web launch of the new 2022 Powerplays this week but it is eerily quiet. It has already been delayed before this week so who knows, but maybe they’re able to do more out of it now that corona restrictions have been lifted many places.

 

[ecavalino]

Ok folks ... how were you able to pre-order 2022 Powerplay? Our limited dealers here in NorCal are not taking orders? WTF ... time to upgrade the 2019 RM Altitude Powerplay ... 2022 seems to be worth the wait over 2021 ... on the motor i broke the torque sensor arm few months back, but aside from usual brakes pads, rotors and tires the RM machine is pretty reliable.

 

[thbo]

Ok folks ... how were you able to pre-order 2022 Powerplay? Our limited dealers here in NorCal are not taking orders? WTF ... time to upgrade the 2019 RM Altitude Powerplay ... 2022 seems to be worth the wait over 2021 ... on the motor i broke the torque sensor arm few months back, but aside from usual brakes pads, rotors and tires the RM machine is pretty reliable.

I dont know whether it’s a (small distant market) Norway issue, and whether it’s the same all over Europe, but it’s preorder time every summer for delivery after the winter the coming year here. That often makes it before the official launch of next year’s models for RM, but the dealers can usually show images in the shop and read out specs.

But this year was different, and many have preordered blindly because of the extra secrecy (I got to see some images in passing on FaceTime though). 2022 is a big upgrade where everything is changed apart from the philosophy I guess. New overtimepack too.

I already have a top spec 2021 RM PP, but the the 5 year old Powerplay control system and app irritates me so much (considering the “top spec” and price) I preordered the new updated system. This got me updated to a coil at the same time.

The new motor is obviously smaller (and may or may not have a tilted top instead of the horizontal on Dyname 3.0) but I hope the main principle is the same because it has been a rock solid war machine for me. And it’s actually much more quiet than others. The torque sensor needs manual calibration quite often and when not recently cleaned and lubricated the glider etc makes exponentially more noise though.

 

[Dirtnvert]

Rockies parent company also owns devinci and new devincis are set to launch tomorrow so i wouldnt doubt rockies are released tomorrow as well.

 

[Richt20000]

Is it full 29er or mullet?

 

[thbo]

Is it full 29er or mullet?

Full 29er in sizes M-XL I believe, but no mullets, small bikes have full 27.5.

 

[thbo]

Heard chatter about imminent web launch of the new 2022 Powerplays this week but it is eerily quiet. It has already been delayed before this week so who knows, but maybe they’re able to do more out of it now that corona restrictions have been lifted many places.

Rockies parent company also owns devinci and new devincis are set to launch tomorrow so i wouldnt doubt rockies are released tomorrow as well.

Everything on track for a big launch at the end of the month. Lots of material and videos getting polished (and eMTBs no doubt!).

I’m set to play bingo with the 15 items in the first post (or rather 8 items in “wishlist”) :

2022 Rocky Mountain new Altitude Powerplay

First off, I’m amazed Rocky Mountain still doesn’t have its own specific forum although several have asked for it many times before, (EDIT: Now resolved. You are in it.) as if they haven’t been around making mountain bikes for 40 years and winning EWS and enduro bike of the year with a legendary...

www.emtbforums.com

I’m going out low and am officially guessing 6 of 8 in the “wishlist” and 13 of 15 items in total. That means I’m not sure there’ll be a Bosch-like “emtb mode” (at launch at least, as RM has liked to keep things simple, understandable and working as expected) and pessimistic about the work put down on “walk mode” (partly on account of the market with the strictest regulations).

 

[Garru]

I pre-ordered it too, let's hope it comes out soon and that it's the best bike in the universe! (the old powerplay was for me..). For now in Italy we only know the price, 722wh, full 29, full kashima, xt group ..

 

[thbo]

L'ho preordinata anch'io, speriamo che esca presto e che sia la migliore bici dell'universo! (il vecchio powerplay era per me..). Per ora in Italia si conosce solo il prezzo, 722wh, full 29, full kashima, xt group..

The (presumed…) coil on the C90 Rally isn’t «Kashima» is it? But it is «Factory» (Orange coil).

 

[Garru]

La (presunta...) bobina della C90 Rally non è «Kashima» vero? Ma è «Fabbrica» (bobina arancione).
[/CITAZIONE]
sì

 

[Garru]

can I attach the Italian price list?

 

[Suiso]

Hello from Spain ... I have also reserved an Altitude Powerplay C70. Nobody knows delivery times and when is it officially presented?
I would also like to know if this ebike can be limited, in the country of origin of the Rocky mountain, the limitation to how many km / h is it?

 

[thbo]

Like said, the last I heard is that there will be an official launch at the end of this month.

*My* delivery is in the spring of 2022, but that probably depends on the market and the importer.

I’m pretty sure it will be locked down according to EU rules in Europe. But how “hackable” that will be is hard to know as there’s a completely new Powerplay system. My guess is not easy (apart from physical external planet gears etc. leading to measurement errors).

 

[Dirtnvert]

No pedal kickback. Rocky is the perfect co to do a hp with their short chainstay. Other companies with their 450-460 length chainstays with a hp would be a nightmare for a heavy emtb to get around a cornerchainsyay when compressed would end up 480 or 490

 

[GVA Rider]

Any ideas about Instinct travel range? 140/140?

 

[Moderator]

Thread has been cleaned in support of the Rocky Mountain embargo.

Further images or embargo'd information will be deleted until the 28th October.

In other news, Andreu Lacondeguy is sadly out of Redbull Rampage due to a fall.