2022 Motors Compared (Video)

[Rob Rides EMTB]

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Another(!) motor comparison video

 

[Ian986]

I appreciate it is quite difficult to do an exact comparison but for me there was to many variables.

The giant bike would have almost be locked out suspension, so would have made more than a second difference easily. I have never rode a giant bike so could not say 100%

I have only rode the older 60nm Yamaha motor and my other half has EP8 Bosch motor feels a lot faster than both of them.

 

[Zimmerframe]

I appreciate it is quite difficult to do an exact comparison but for me there was to many variables.

The giant bike would have almost be locked out suspension, so would have made more than a second difference easily. I have never rode a giant bike so could not say 100%

It's ridiculous isn't it !

You think when the video got to 2:30 in he'd clarify things and say something like "it's not super scientific, it's just a bit of fun .."

Maybe even put some visuals up for anyone who wasn't listening .. like ....

Maybe he'll get it right on the next one.

 

[Mteam]

You mentioned in the video about us giving feedback..... Have you ever considered writing articles to go with the videos, so that those of us with the attention span of a gnat can read the bits we want without having to watch a whole video.

Appreciate that's a load of extra effort, but even an automatically generated transcript might be good.

This isn't a criticism of YOUR videos ,they're very well produced ,filmed,written etc, it's a criticism of ALL video reviews etc , I'd rather read at my pace than be forced to watch a video at someone else pace.

It's the same with pinkbike videos, I just can't watch them (except Friday fails)

Appreciate I'm probably in a minority in this view though.

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

You mentioned in the video about us giving feedback..... Have you ever considered writing articles to go with the videos, so that those of us with the attention span of a gnat can read the bits we want without having to watch a whole video.

Appreciate that's a load of extra effort, but even an automatically generated transcript might be good.

This isn't a criticism of YOUR videos ,they're very well produced ,filmed,written etc, it's a criticism of ALL video reviews etc , I'd rather read at my pace than be forced to watch a video at someone else pace.

It's the same with pinkbike videos, I just can't watch them (except Friday fails)

Appreciate I'm probably in a minority in this view though.

Yes. But no. I hate writing.

 

[R3Z3N]

For me the Mahle (in the Kenevo SL/Levo SL) is the best, still provides MORE than enough torque, almost doubles uphill speed even in stock eco mode for me. I would prefer the whine to go away but such is the nature of gears. It does sound like the gears in it are straight cut (yup, they are...except for the first pinion/spur combo ) which contributes to the majority of the noise.

I thought I would like the Orbea Rise RS motor, and am so glad I did not simply as that is way too much power.

 

[wildsau2]

„this is a unscientific test“, ok
but, why are you measuring a hundredth of seconds? second should be enough.
why do you not use use power pedals and heart rate which is „more“ scientific?
this test is just marketing.
sorry

 

[flash]

We need a Fazua vs SL vs RS vs.. test for the low powered motors...

Thanks Rob. Great as always.

Gordon

 

[TCFlowClyde]

Well done Rob! And since you didn't include any Bafang M500/600 direct comparisons, plus just for use DIY Bafangers including loyal Cheeber's who regularly absorb your accumen...can you comment on past input of the Cheep M500 motor and "project" onto your recent motors comparisons?

 

[TCFlowClyde]

Well done Rob! And since you didn't include any Bafang M500/600 direct comparisons, plus just for use DIY Bafangers including loyal Cheeber's who regularly absorb your accumen...can you comment on past input of the Cheep M500 motor and "project" onto your recent motors comparisons?

Your not use...spl chkr

 

[RustyMTB]

Some of those motors have more rattles than Mothercare!

 

[Mikerb]

Hi Rob........I have ridden Bosch Gen 4 in my Whyte e180 and Brose in my Gen 2 Levo Comp. The Bosch is definitely louder under pedal power whether uphill or on the flat. I never noticed any downhill rattle on the Levo ( nor should you seeing the drive is belt rather than meshed gears).
I can also say that there is no motor rattle downhill on my Whyte/Bosch. Clearly the rattle is due to meshed gears that have a some slack and can therefore be rattled together by feedback from the chain ( pedal kick). Whether that happens a lot, not a lot, or not at all, is largely governed by the kinematics of the rear suspension and therefore varies with each bike brand/model.
I dont know if the same can be said for the EP8. It may be that the EP8 has somewhat looser gear meshing than the Bosch.

Question: Is the Bosch Gen4 "Smart" any different to the non smart Gen4 other than in respect to displays/controllers etc??

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

„this is a unscientific test“, ok
but, why are you measuring a hundredth of seconds? second should be enough.
why do you not use use power pedals and heart rate which is „more“ scientific?
this test is just marketing.
sorry ☮

It’s really more of an entertainment video. I’ll leave the power pedals and heart rate monitor-type super accurate video to anyone else brave enough to gather 6 ebikes, fully charge them all and transport them all to a relevant test location (and pair them up to power pedals and heart rate monitors), produce a video and share it

I get your point, but there’s no way to please everyone, and I’m not ‘that’ kind of geeky tester. I just rode 6 bikes up a hill and recorded it

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

We need a Fazua vs SL vs RS vs.. test for the low powered motors...

Thanks Rob. Great as always.

Gordon

I’ll wait a few months then do something

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Well done Rob! And since you didn't include any Bafang M500/600 direct comparisons, plus just for use DIY Bafangers including loyal Cheeber's who regularly absorb your accumen...can you comment on past input of the Cheep M500 motor and "project" onto your recent motors comparisons?

M500 would have come below Yam but above EP8 RS.

I have the M510 now (lighter, 20% more power, according to Bafang). Will test this asap!

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Hi Rob........I have ridden Bosch Gen 4 in my Whyte e180 and Brose in my Gen 2 Levo Comp. The Bosch is definitely louder under pedal power whether uphill or on the flat. I never noticed any downhill rattle on the Levo ( nor should you seeing the drive is belt rather than meshed gears).
I can also say that there is no motor rattle downhill on my Whyte/Bosch. Clearly the rattle is due to meshed gears that have a some slack and can therefore be rattled together by feedback from the chain ( pedal kick). Whether that happens a lot, not a lot, or not at all, is largely governed by the kinematics of the rear suspension and therefore varies with each bike brand/model.
I dont know if the same can be said for the EP8. It may be that the EP8 has somewhat looser gear meshing than the Bosch.

Question: Is the Bosch Gen4 "Smart" any different to the non smart Gen4 other than in respect to displays/controllers etc??

Difficult to say, as they all make running charges. I’d say, anecdotally, the Bosch Smart has reduced backlash over the very first Gen4 bikes. But it’s hard to tell as, like you say, kinematics/ pedal kickback, frame design and material all contribute to noise.

 

[Mikerb]

Difficult to say, as they all make running charges. I’d say, anecdotally, the Bosch Smart has reduced backlash over the very first Gen4 bikes. But it’s hard to tell as, like you say, kinematics/ pedal kickback, frame design and material all contribute to noise.

...thanks...I was wondering more about the performance ( power delivery) than noise. Did you notice any real difference compared to the earlier Bosch Gen 4 motors??

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

...thanks...I was wondering more about the performance ( power delivery) than noise. Did you notice any real difference compared to the earlier Bosch Gen 4 motors??

Slightly; I think this is more to do with that fact that it’s now possible to customise the power mode for the Turbo mode on the Bosch Smart. Dialled up to Max on both assistance and support (or whatever Bosch call it) mean it’s lightning quick to respond and get up to full power.

that wasn’t possible on the previous gen.

 

[Mikerb]

Slightly; I think this is more to do with that fact that it’s now possible to customise the power mode for the Turbo mode on the Bosch Smart. Dialled up to Max on both assistance and support (or whatever Bosch call it) mean it’s lightning quick to respond and get up to full power.

that wasn’t possible on the previous gen.

Great thanks. I suspected that Bosch would take the opportunity to make some form of performance enhancement to keep it competitive.

 

[TCFlowClyde]

M500 would have come below Yam but above EP8 RS.

I have the M510 now (lighter, 20% more power, according to Bafang). Will test this asap!

Nice

 

[Pdoz]

Rob, is there any chance of you doing the climb on each bike with motor turned off so we can get an idea of how much time each motor saves rather than just seeing, eg, a 140 mm rise is more efficient to pedal than a 170 mm kenevo ?

Confession - I just want to see you struggle uphill without power.

 

[shakeystart]

What I would really like to know is when is Shimano is coming out with their E8 SL?

 

[Bearing Man]

Difficult to say, as they all make running charges. I’d say, anecdotally, the Bosch Smart has reduced backlash over the very first Gen4 bikes. But it’s hard to tell as, like you say, kinematics/ pedal kickback, frame design and material all contribute to noise.

Just a note, Bosch have changed the main large drive gear in their Gen 4 motor, from a straight cut tooth design to a helical cut tooth which would produce less noise.

 

[Doomanic]

I’ll wait a few months then do something

 

[shakeystart]

Just a note, Bosch have changed the main large drive gear in their Gen 4 motor, from a straight cut tooth design to a helical cut tooth which would produce less noise.

Well, that would do it! Not quite as efficient as straight cut gears, but much quieter.

 

[Mikerb]

Well, that would do it! Not quite as efficient as straight cut gears, but much quieter.

helical gears can also be closely meshed without too much friction since only about a 3rd of the gear width meshes together at any instant......so there should not be any rattling!

 

[Bearing Man]

helical gears can also be closely meshed without too much friction since only about a 3rd of the gear width meshes together at any instant......so there should not be any rattling!

Sadly, there is still a few smaller straight cut gears in there Mike, but definitely better!

 

[Mikerb]

Sadly, there is still a few smaller straight cut gears in there Mike, but definitely better!

Ah OK...I guess there is a limit on how small you can go with helical gears before they become too weak.

 

[Waynemarlow]

Don’t forget the larger bearing needed to handle the side thrust created by the helical gearing and if not a different bearing setup, will the existing bearing handle the side load over the same number of user hours ?