2021 Marin Alpine Trail EMTB released

[Mteam]

333mm from floor to centre of crank bolt?

yes - from floor to centre of crank bolt, and I measured both sides of the cranks to ensure I had the bike properly vertical, both sides measure the same value (well to within a mm or two) . and yes (before anyone asks) - the tyres were fully inflated.

I also measured head angle using one of those phone based spirit level things, that came out as 65deg, whereas the official angle is supposed to be 65.5 - but I'll class that as the same given the probable lack of accuracy/calibration of my phone.

 

[STATO]

The official BB height for my orbea wild fs is 345mm, but I've just been and measured it (because im bored) - and its actually 333mm.

Thats with the stock tyres it came with from the factory - how can manufacturers measurements be so far out - not that I'm complaining I like a low bb!

Manufacturers build geo on stock numbers, so things like tyres, forks, etc. may change come final spec. There will therefore be some variance, but i doubt they will be 12mm out, that would require -20mm fork change for example.

Its incredibly difficult to measure accurately without a jig. Using a tape measure is prone to error in readings, never mind finding a flat spot and making sure you are measuring vertical etc. Try using a stick held against the crank and and then measure the stick.

Of course this does mean geo numbers are 'almost' pointless, as they can change and even a few psi in tyre and fork can be equivalent to the difference between 2 bikes for example. But numbers are how we compare bikes, so they need to be reasonably accurate so we have a baseline to talk from; such as the point about this Marin having very short stays but Rob felt it was still stable, because of the 63 degree head angle.

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Manufacturers build geo on stock numbers, so things like tyres, forks, etc. may change come final spec. There will therefore be some variance, but i doubt they will be 12mm out, that would require -20mm fork change for example.

Its incredibly difficult to measure accurately without a jig. Using a tape measure is prone to error in readings, never mind finding a flat spot and making sure you are measuring vertical etc. Try using a stick held against the crank and and then measure the stick.

Of course this does mean geo numbers are 'almost' pointless, as they can change and even a few psi in tyre and fork can be equivalent to the difference between 2 bikes for example. But numbers are how we compare bikes, so they need to be reasonably accurate so we have a baseline to talk from; such as the point about this Marin having very short stays but Rob felt it was still stable, because of the 63 degree head angle.

Agree, this is a pretty significant difference. Only thing I can think is that it has a 2020 Rockshox with a bit of riderless sag on the fork already?

I'm starting to measure certain things now when the bikes arrive. The Marin actually measured 62.8 degrees in head angle, measured a couple of times and turned 180, then averaged.

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Manufacturers build geo on stock numbers, so things like tyres, forks, etc. may change come final spec. There will therefore be some variance, but i doubt they will be 12mm out, that would require -20mm fork change for example.

Its incredibly difficult to measure accurately without a jig. Using a tape measure is prone to error in readings, never mind finding a flat spot and making sure you are measuring vertical etc. Try using a stick held against the crank and and then measure the stick.

Of course this does mean geo numbers are 'almost' pointless, as they can change and even a few psi in tyre and fork can be equivalent to the difference between 2 bikes for example. But numbers are how we compare bikes, so they need to be reasonably accurate so we have a baseline to talk from; such as the point about this Marin having very short stays but Rob felt it was still stable, because of the 63 degree head angle.

What software are you using to calculate geo out of interest?

 

[STATO]

Agree, this is a pretty significant difference. Only thing I can think is that it has a 2020 Rockshox with a bit of riderless sag on the fork already?

I'm starting to measure certain things now when the bikes arrive. The Marin actually measured 62.8 degrees in head angle, measured a couple of times and turned 180, then averaged.

Did you measure the wheelbase? with that headangle either the wheelbase figure is miles out or the reach is half a size under what they say. Could have a noticable impact on size choice.

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Did you measure the wheelbase? with that headangle either the wheelbase figure is miles out or the reach is half a size under what they say. Could have a noticable impact on size choice.

No, but I still have the bike so will do that later...

 

[Jim-D]

Jim-D, yea as I said there were only 2/85 left at 9am on 2nd December... 83/85 got pre-ordered on day one.

Yup. I got on the phone right after I saw your message in this thread, and just missed out on the April E2's by the sounds of it. I don't know how many bikes big brands plan to make for each batch, but doesn't 85 sound a bit on the low end? Especially considering the split in frame sizes too... Maybe Marin weren't expecting to hit the mark quite so well on their first 'proper' go? The geo sits in the sweet spot between a full on DH rig like the Kenevo, and milder trail based geometry that most others have. What else has a nice low standover/seattube and comparable reach/HT angles?

 

[nomad66]

The official BB height for my orbea wild fs is 345mm, but I've just been and measured it (because im bored) - and its actually 333mm.

Thats with the stock tyres it came with from the factory - how can manufacturers measurements be so far out - not that I'm complaining I like a low bb!

mines 335 ish on my orbea wild team,

 

[Mteam]

mines 335 ish on my orbea wild team,

yep, pretty much matches mine then - looks like the BB is much lower in reality than stated - the real BB height is a good thing IMO.

 

[STATO]

What software are you using to calculate geo out of interest?

I have an old spreadshee ive found online a few years ago, ive been using it for a while and have made a few tweaks and compared a load of bikes with it. You can spot some interesting things with it.

For Mullet bikes it doesnt work great though so i just did some basic trigonometry of the fork and head tube

fox spec a 38 at 573mm for 160mm (Note the RS is 10mm longer for same travel, ive done the fox)

2021-2022 38mm User Specifications | Bike Help Center | FOX

www.ridefox.com

So how far is the axle in front of the top of the headtube at 63deg;

Fork 573 and headtube 130 = ~319mm horizontal distnce, ~626 height
not forgetting the 44mm rake is ~ +39mm horizontal, ~ -20mm height



So wheelbase 1288(XL) minus chainstay, 435, and fork and headtube forward distance = reach, which is 495 (quoted 505)
stack is ~626-20 + BB drop 28 = ~634 (quoted 640)

Cant see where ive gone wrong, maybe i have. Chainstay could be horizontal measure or actual measure, but thats only ~1mm diff either way.

 

[Zimmerframe]

yes - from floor to centre of crank bolt, and I measured both sides of the cranks to ensure I had the bike properly vertical, both sides measure the same value (well to within a mm or two) . and yes (before anyone asks) - the tyres were fully inflated.

I don't suppose, in order to make things consistent, BB height isn't spec'd with 0 sag ?

 

[Zimmerframe]

I'm starting to measure certain things now when the bikes arrive. The Marin actually measured 62.8 degrees in head angle, measured a couple of times and turned 180, then averaged.

I'm impressed, I think I'd be to dizzy to do that accurately after keep turning 180 degrees, doing it backwards, turn, forwards .. good party game though, I'll stick it on the list of MTB party games.

 

[dobbyhasfriends]

here we go.. the 2021 haibike allmtn 4 which can take another battery in the frame to give 1125 wh and its in the same price range with a far superior spec: Haibike | AllMtn 4 | eMTB for challenging terrain
sorry to bang on but I like Marin's and I think im just disappointed that they didnt do better.

 

[Mteam]

I don't suppose, in order to make things consistent, BB height isn't spec'd with 0 sag ?

The factory figure would be lower if BB height was measured at say 30% sag, and therefore my measured figure would be lower still.

I measured my other bikes (2018 YT capra 27.5, and 2014 orbea rallon) - they're within a couple of mm of the factory figures.

But consistency (ie to remove variable like tyres etc) is why most manufacturers specify a bb drop figure . the official bb drop for my bike is 30mm, I measured it at 40mm. I wonder if originally orbea were going to use a slight longer eye to eye length shock and the bb height/drop figures are based on this, but then they decided to use a shorter shock, but then forgot to update the geo chart?

 

[Sean1.0]

here we go.. the 2021 haibike allmtn 4

but you have to look at it

 

[Zimmerframe]

The factory figure would be lower if BB height was measured at say 30% sag, and therefore my measured figure would be lower still.

LOL .. good point ... erm .... how did I dig out of this stupidity .. 50% sag ?

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Out of interest I just measured my Trek Rail BB height. It’s 6mm higher than trek say (445 vs 339) with the chip in the low position ?‍

 

[dobbyhasfriends]

but you have to look at it

lol, I like it it but that part is subjective whearas my point is not

 

[Jim-D]

here we go.. the 2021 haibike allmtn 4 which can take another battery in the frame to give 1125 wh and its in the same price range with a far superior spec: Haibike | AllMtn 4 | eMTB for challenging terrain
sorry to bang on but I like Marin's and I think im just disappointed that they didnt do better.

Thought you'd found a contender then, but for a similar reach (M marin vs L Haibike) the seattube on the Marin is 70mm lower! That makes a big difference when hitting the jumps when you want the seat out of the way.

 

[Zimmerframe]

That makes a big difference when hitting the jumps when you want the seat out of the way.

Your making assumptions about his riding style ..

 

[Dave_h34]

Yeah I think its a bit of a misconception that you always run as dropper as slammed as you can get it - on several bikes with low standovers you wouldn't necessarily slam the seat all the way down. Take a look at a lot of the pros bikes for example and the post are not slammed, thats often because the saddle edges provide feedback on where the bike is under you - this is why most DH bikes dont have the saddle slammed, as its used for bike control/feedback rather than sitting on - think about how you stand on a bike, and actually where you would want the saddle to sit in relation to your leg when slammed - you will also find that on some bikes with low seat tubes, if you slammed the saddle the rear wheel would hit it when compressed.

Fully agree with that. I'm no pro but find 125mm drop OK, 150mm ideal (now that I've also tried 170), and 170mm too much really. It is still being able to feel the saddle/bike whilst also being fully able to move about. With 170mm the saddle just disappears, not necessarily better.

 

[lonelywolf]

all these bike create my smile, especially when I see the price

 

[smtkelly]

Is it weird they don't have any studio photos of the E2? Only photos that seem to be doing the rounds are from the same UK source (so it seems)

 

[Zamzoo]

Anyone else had their due dates pushed back?

My dealer was right in there at the start way before release, suggested Feb / March delivery now end of May with suggested dates.

May just have been wishful thinking on the first dates mind.

 

[Jim-D]

Anyone else had their due dates pushed back?

My dealer was right in there at the start way before release, suggested Feb / March delivery now end of May with suggested dates.

May just have been wishful thinking on the first dates mind.

Is that for the first batch of E1s or E2? They'll be here when they're here...

 

[Zamzoo]

E2s first batch and yep not much we can do.

not heard about any price increases yet though, touch wood.

 

[Jim-D]

E2s first batch and yep not much we can do.

not heard about any price increases yet though, touch wood.

Yup, I've got an E2 pre-ordered also. I'll only start pestering dealer if I see other people are getting theirs delivered! As even the sponsored Marin riders are all on E1's I'm guessing they are still a way off...

 

[smtkelly]

If any one is still interested in a Marin E2 www.spokesofbagshot.com have a medium and a XL still available for April delivery (currently).
Ask for James Thompson and tell them Simon Kelly sent you and he'll be able to sort you out.

 

[smtkelly]

E2 video from a Marin sponsored rider.

 

[Zimmerframe]

We really are spoilt for choice !!