2021 Ebike Motor Shootout

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Huge 2021 eBike Motor Test - I couldn't believe the difference!

Considering a new ebike for 2021? Check out the power, noise, integration and reliability in the vid above ?

 

[stiv674]

Despite it's possible lack of power compared to the others, if Shimano can reduce the rattling it's the one I'd go for. Better integration and seemingly quieter under load.

 

[ggx]

Connectivity btw Kiox and E-bike Connect and funcionality problems is a minus in Bosch system. Made recent update and don´t see improvements

 

[Mteam]

Connectivity btw Kiox and E-bike Connect and funcionality problems is a minus in Bosch system. Made recent update and don´t see improvements

Yes the bosch app is rubbish, it doesn't seem to do anything useful.

And the Bluetooth connectivity of the kiox is also full of bugs and doesn't work reliably.

I've uninstalled the app it's that bad.

Still, it wouldn't put me off buying a bosch motor, but the app and Bluetooth connectivity is terrible. There's really no excuse for it.

 

[Beekeeper]

Great video. What’s happened to that decathlon Stilus? It appears to have very beefy forks. What else on it has been upgraded?

 

[Jeffrey]

Yes the bosch app is rubbish, it doesn't seem to do anything useful.

And the Bluetooth connectivity of the kiox is also full of bugs and doesn't work reliably.

I've uninstalled the app it's that bad.

Still, it wouldn't put me off buying a bosch motor, but the app and Bluetooth connectivity is terrible. There's really no excuse for it.

With the last Kiox update mine is running fine and I use it on every ride. I have no synchronisation issues.
I also really like the new GPS navigation function. It's a must to create the route at home and then ride it without looking at the map on every intersection!

 

[Zimmerframe]

What else on it has been upgraded?

Search "StiPLUS" instead of Stilus.... for all the honey answers ..

The drag test is really interesting.

Might be interesting in the future to do a longer (poor Rob) version. I think some of the motors peak for a while and then drop off, so the Shimano might pull some back on a longer climb. I always found my E8000 bike seemed to pull hardest at a lower cadence than you'd expect, you learnt how to surf the torque wave ...

 

[aarfeldt]

I know it's not used in many bikes.....but the Polini E-P3 MX looks nice, and would be nice to compare a small company motor against the big ones.

Great video btw.

 

[TonTonUB]

hello,

Nice test !
I just wonder how original yamaha motor and its giant version (build with specific parts designed by giant, tuned etc.) compare with each other. I suspect that a lot of differences could be hilighted (or at least more than expected). Just an idea, maybe for a future test ?

Keep on the nice stuff !

 

[flash]

Hate to say it @Rob Rides EMTB , but I do wish you'd put an SL and eZesty in there for a full comparison (maybe even a TQ and the old E8000. ). It might have killed you but it's all for the greater good. haha.

Maybe another day you could do the Fazua, SL vs EP8 (as a benchmark) to complete the set. After all there's plenty of SL owners out there and at least one eZesty owner on the forum.....

Gordon

p.s. In all honesty I really liked this video. Thanks! Nice to see how you discussed the look and feel of the systems as well as the overall power. It's not always about the most straight line speed.

 

[Beekeeper]

Any clattering noise from the motor would really annoy me.

I’d be happy if they changed the clattering to a buzz ?

 

[GrandPaBrogan]

hello,

Nice test !
I just wonder how original yamaha motor and its giant version (build with specific parts designed by giant, tuned etc.) compare with each other. I suspect that a lot of differences could be hilighted (or at least more than expected). Just an idea, maybe for a future test ?

Keep on the nice stuff !

I was actually thinking about the same thing!

Although they have the same YAMAHA badge and similar crankcase, I suspect that Giant's proprietary "Yamaha SyncDrivePro" has different characteristics to the original Yamaha PW-X - according to Giant's propaganda blurb. I've always thought of it in terms along the lines of 'Honda' vs 'Mugen Honda' analogy. Or was it all just marketing mumbo-jumbo?

I seem to recall watching a YouTuber user review that these Yamahas were different when the 2019 Giants first came out. However if there was a difference, it remains to be seen if the new Yamaha PW-X2 is now closer to Giant's SynDrivePro tuning, or further away from it.

 

[GrandPaBrogan]

Huge 2021 eBike Motor Test - I couldn't believe the difference!

Considering a new ebike for 2021? Check out the power, noise, integration and reliability in the vid above ?

I watched it as soon as the video went up on YouTube! Great video and interesting watch - held the viewers attention!

Appreciate that it was repeatedly clarified that it wasn't an ultra scientific comparison. In order to get a truely fair assessment, the motors would've needed to be mounted on the same bike utilising the same drive train and tires (and with motors covered, so that at least three alternating test riders can't see which brand is being tested - to eliminate brand awareness bias). Several test riders would also cancel out varying levels of "determination" which could also play a role in the climbing times - where repeats could be made until a more desirable result is achieved.

Power, noise, integration and reliability are great facets to compare - you actually brushed a little bit on motor weight too. It makes sense that the less powerful units are also lighter as a result and will bring in other advantages which some of us may feel is a desirable tradeoff.

It's a shame that the climbing times weren't or couldn't be substantiated by cost as well. Too many variables to do this. But while impressed by the climbing times of ALL the bikes, I couldn't help but think about the cost difference between those bikes. A unit of > $ per second < would certainly shed an even more interesting facet for this experiment.

At any rate, there's enough in there for eMTB riders to evaluate the results and make an educated choice that better fits our needs and applications.

Very well done Rob... but I hope Mega Motor Test part 2, 3 and so on - doesn't end up being pandora's box? ?

 

[Dirtnvert]

Really informative vid. Bearing man ftw. Bosch cx ftw. The cx is over a year old and looks to be the best. Maybe next year after the brose gets a year of dependable service in after the improvements it will be cx level or the polini proves itself after a year.
The only standout missing in the test is the rocky mountain bike

 

[B1rdie]

The climb test would better be done at a sitting position, with saddle high and at a fixed cadence.

 

[KeithR]

The climb test would better be done... at a fixed cadence.

Not a good idea - different motors are at their best at different cadences. The test is about which motor is fastest up a hill, not which is fastest while possibly being disadvantaged by being ridden - in effect - wrongly.

 

[stiv674]

What surprised me most was that the Brose seems to have gone from the quietest motor to one of the loudest.

 

[Zimmerframe]

What surprised me most was that the Brose seems to have gone from the quietest motor to one of the loudest.

They've done that so people can show off that it's working....

 

[Beekeeper]

They've done that so people can show off that it's working....

isn’t there an expensive rear hub freewheel which makes a right racket but is a sign of top quality? Is it made by Hope / Chris King I think?

 

[GrandPaBrogan]

The climb test would better be done at a sitting position, with saddle high and at a fixed cadence.

I think I would agree about the sitting position. With most motors giving or exceeding 300% pedal assist at its highest turbo setting, I don’t understand why steep climbs are attempted while standing unless of course an obstacle is in the way. A seated position should keep the centre of gravity lower, more accurate weight distribution for max rear wheel traction, and minimise lactic acid burn during longer or extended periods. Being seated may not produce max rider pedal output but it should be more consistent especially when having more bikes queued up for comparative testing. Fatigue doesn’t become too much of a factor for bikes tested last.

Not a good idea - different motors are at their best at different cadences. The test is about which motor is fastest up a hill, not which is fastest while possibly being disadvantaged by being ridden - in effect - wrongly.

I also agree. The motor should be ridden at whatever cadence that brings out its maximum torque - coupled by whatever highest gearing it can handle just under stalling for max speed. So yeah, besides cadence... different motors could shine at it’s best with different gearing ratios (chainring T / cassette cog T).

 

[KeithR]

I think I would agree about the sitting position. With most motors giving or exceeding 300% pedal assist at its highest turbo setting, I don’t understand why steep climbs are attempted while standing unless of course an obstacle is in the way. A seated position should keep the centre of gravity lower, more accurate weight distribution for max rear wheel traction, and minimise lactic acid burn during longer or extended periods. Being seated may not produce max rider pedal output but it should be more consistent especially when having more bikes queued up for comparative testing. Fatigue doesn’t become too much of a factor for bikes tested last.

Yep, I thought that when I watched the video - rather than mashing the pedals, sitting and spinning allows far more granular and efficient control over cadence, which would make it easier to hit the sweet spot and keep it there.

 

[Zimmerframe]

I think @TheBikePilot should ride the test climbs incognito .. as The TUJH ! (one letter on from the STIG - don't want any infringements) He can even wear all white - which could lead to a fight with Bruni - an episode well worth watching .. It takes the pressure off Rob from people questioning his performance or technique (which was mentioned as not being scientific, but it does give you a baseline).

 

[KeithR]

It takes the pressure off Rob from people questioning his performance or technique

Nobody's doing that. It's just a fact that there's more than one way to approach a test like this.

 

[Zimmerframe]

Nobody's doing that. It's just a fact that there's more than one way to approach a test like this.

I was thinking of Mrs Rob ... he was knackered after 20 seconds ...

 

[GrandPaBrogan]

It takes the pressure off Rob from people questioning his performance or technique (which was mentioned as not being scientific, but it does give you a baseline).

Not taking anything away from Rob. I think we all appreciate that it would be near impossible to do a truely scientific test... just too many variables... not enough time, etc. Even if it was possible, I suspect that it would be pointless.

Most discerning riders know that every advantage has a trade off. So the fastest time up a climb no matter how scientifically derived, doesn’t define which is the best motor. There’s consequences on battery life, capacity, and weight which affects handling mileage and durability.

So yeah, it’s not lost on us that it’s just for fun and entertainment... and at best, just a very rough baseline. Really glad that Rob has the freedom to do videos like this. I’m just glad he didn’t pass out! ????

 

[Pdoz]

Not taking anything away from Rob. I think we all appreciate that it would be near impossible to do a truely scientific test... just too many variables... not enough time, etc. Even if it was possible, I suspect that it would be pointless.

Most discerning riders know that every advantage has a trade off. So the fastest time up a climb no matter how scientifically derived, doesn’t define which is the best motor. There’s consequences on battery life, capacity, and weight which affects handling mileage and durability.

So yeah, it’s not lost on us that it’s just for fun and entertainment... and at best, just a very rough baseline. Really glad that Rob has the freedom to do videos like this. I’m just glad he didn’t pass out! ????

Read this from a zin perspective ( thinking of mrs rob)

 

[TheBikePilot]

Nobody's doing that. It's just a fact that there's more than one way to approach a test like this.

How would you conduct this Keith my old fruit? Would love to hear how you would do it with the resources we have available?

Bearing in mind there’s only only two of us, we aren’t being paid and one of us has to point a camera? And we both had to pedal 2 bikes each out to the trails with camera gear..transport them to the woods, This is (not quite yet) a Top Gear production crew ..! Plus I don’t think Rob would punch anyone for not getting a steak in the evening..Oh and

Results seem to be broadly in line with the last test...!

There’s no perfect motor, Bosch is very slightly the winner in an uphill drag race. Has rattle though. Bad controller. Brose close second. Same as before. No rattle, good integration. Reliability an issue but has been addressed. Yamaha close third, no rattle etc etc. EP8, super super quiet up, loud down and indeed on the flat. Very natural feeling. Purists choice.

My takeaway from the whole video was they are all winners in different categories. Which means there’s a motor for everyone..!

This was a bit of fun and fact. We can all get super scientific but what matters is real world feedback, from a real world rider whose ridden more ebikes probably than anyone else in the world

 

[R120]

Its also hard to factor in rider compatibility, and thats only something that can be ascertained by a rider trying multiple bikes - one system might work better for one rider than another, based on their peddling style, and how they ride etc etc. Thats before you even touch on frame design, hub engagement, gearing, tyre choice etc etc factoring into how well a bike goes up or down a hill.

If I am out riding in a group, and we are all of equal ability but riding different motors, its far more likely that poor tyre choice, or bad suspension set up for example will hold one of us back than any difference in motor power between the bikes, and its also in the real world quite rare to be on terrain other than a fireroad or pretty tame trails where a motor like the TQ will make a noticeable difference and allow one rider to pull away from others.

It might actually be that for a very good rider with an active riding style that they are faster on a Levo SL than a full fat Levo for example, but that for someone who is looking for a bike to help them keep riding, or keep up with other riders in their crew that a Bosch, or Even TQ motor is a better option.

When I go out for a ride in tend to be a 2 hour non stop thrash of a ride, so really what I am looking for is a bike and motor that is most fun for that - I am not really looking for the most assistance, more the least resistance from the system in terms of anything that interferes with my riding style, or annoys me - e.g as much as I like many Bosch bikes, I hate the displays, and would find it hard to get one just because of that, whereas I dont mind the noise from them, which puts others off.

As the @TheBikePilot says we are lucky that now there are some great motors, all with pluses and minuses, and some great choices over a pretty big marketplace now, and there is likely the right bike out there for everyone, and the videos great at showing that.

 

[KeithR]

How would you conduct this Keith my old fruit? Would love to hear how you would do it with the resources we have available?

The way people have already mentioned up the page - sitting down, spinning optimal cadence, letting the bike do as much of the work as possible, rather than standing and mashing a bigger gear than might otherwise be needed.

The fact that Rob was knackered after every run suggests that it was as much him as the motors that got the bikes to the top of the bank.

 

[Zimmerframe]

This is all potentially all very subjective. We could go as far as to suggest we should have a motor dyno. But then you might have a motor which performs admirably on a dyno, but doesn't deliver, for whatever reasons, in the real world.

I think with Rob literally giving it his all on each run for each motor, it gives each motor the chance to deliver their maximum assistance based on the rider putting in sufficient effort for it to churn out 100% of it's assistance. He's not a ROBot, so he can't be 100% exactly the same each time.

Remember the motors are not the sole source of power, they assist, theoretically upto a certain % of input rider power. It would be a lot harder for a rider to pedal up a hill, seated and give a certain amount of effort consistently over several runs. He might only put in 200w of power. For one motor, that might be enough to give 100% of it's power in response, for another, it might only give 50% .

Ultimately, it's a bit of fun - and interesting at the same time. I hope, when it's possible, Rob & TBP get a chance to perform the same test when they try other motors, even if it's only disclosed on the forum and not in the video's where it might not be relevant.