2019 Turbo levo

[AME]

Good luck if you injure someone and it is found your bike is illegal.[/QUOTE]


they need to proove that the de-restriction is the cause of the accident. If you tuned your rs6 and run into a person 20 km/h on the street, the 800hp is not the reasson even if your car is illigal.

 

[TMS]

Good luck if you injure someone and it is found your bike is illegal.


they need to proove that the de-restriction is the cause of the accident. If you tuned your rs6 and run into a person 20 km/h on the street, the 800hp is not the reasson even if your car is illigal.

I have to disagree again. But let's say this topic has done what it can. Good conversation and lots of opinions.

 

[Lithium]

I have to disagree again. But let's say this topic has done what it can. Good conversation and lots of opinions.

Good luck if you injure someone and it is found your bike is illegal.

A mate sent me this from Australia... https://www.coronerscourt.vic.gov.au/sites/default/files/2018-12/AlbertDeanMay_423715.pdf

Worth a read through...

 

[Beezerk]

A mate sent me this from Australia... https://www.coronerscourt.vic.gov.au/sites/default/files/2018-12/AlbertDeanMay_423715.pdf

Worth a read through...

Blimey, I'm staying in Frankston for a few weeks very soon, had better pack some body gear

 

[AME]

A mate sent me this from Australia... https://www.coronerscourt.vic.gov.au/sites/default/files/2018-12/AlbertDeanMay_423715.pdf

Worth a read through...

Wery interesting read!

I have read through. It seems the power output and that it actually is a motorcycle and not a bike as some of the reason he was convicted for the accident? (sorry, my native anguage is not english ). And, he rode that biek ( witch is a motorcycle) on a pedestrian sidewalk as he knew he should not have done. He was also under power and did not pedal the cooter. They state he was under 25km/h

If our bikes i s derestricted-they still have only 250w. They are allowed on sidewalks. Here, i still belive they have to proove that the reasson for the crash have to be the de-restricing to convict you. Ocouarse-there can be other reasons to have you convicted-like in the case you mention to us above.

 

[Mikerb]

Here is the point...if you de restrict your bike it is no longer a pedelec...it becomes a motorcycle. If it is a motorcycle and the accident occurs on a public highway you need a licence tax and insurance and are subject to Traffic Act laws and penalties ( including careless or dangerous driving and speeding). If the accident occurs on a public access trail where motor vehicles are banned you will still be in trouble....probably even more from a civil court action for damages than criminal prosecution.

 

[Lithium]

Here is the point...if you de restrict your bike it is no longer a pedelec...it becomes a motorcycle.

That's the core of it, and it's what the Bosch guys keep banging the drum about. Seems likely that the automotive lobby are looking for a news-worthy incident to hit eBikers over the head with...

 

[miPbiP]

@Mikerb has it in 1. Legally it's a motorcycle and you're into a whole new legal ballpark, regardless of the circumstances of the incident.

 

[khorn]

Here is the point...if you de restrict your bike it is no longer a pedelec...it becomes a motorcycle. If it is a motorcycle and the accident occurs on a public highway you need a licence tax and insurance and are subject to Traffic Act laws and penalties ( including careless or dangerous driving and speeding). If the accident occurs on a public access trail where motor vehicles are banned you will still be in trouble....probably even more from a civil court action for damages than criminal prosecution.

Very off topic again I know but different rules for different countries. In Denmark I can run my Levo up to 45 kmh perfectly legal on public roads.

Karsten

 

[Mikerb]

Very off topic again I know but different rules for different countries. In Denmark I can run my Levo up to 45 kmh perfectly legal on public roads.

Karsten

Yes, I understand it is an experiment to be reviewed some time this year, and not a popular decision with a number of organisations including the police and cycling organisations. To be clear, the law passed last year authorise the use of S-Pedelecs which are banned in most EU member states, hence the higher speed. It also means the rider has to have a moped or car licence...and I assume is subject to road traffic laws.

 

[Marcelfacd]

According to European Laws an E-MTB is excluded from type approval and therefore is allowed to exceed all speed limitations. Or as it is stated; bikes for competition and bikes primarily intended for off road use (in my book MTB's)
You can look it up in the white paper Rules regulation on electric cycles in the european union may 2017 on page 4-5

Sheds an interesting light on the matter.

 

[Mikerb]

Yep...if it is a pedelec and not a motorcycle. Assisted speed is restricted to 25kph....if it is derestricted it is no longer a pedelec

 

[Lithium]

Interesting discussion that probably we should continue elsewhere. It seems there are recent changes to manufacturer guidelines that came into force around April 1st 2019. From EN15194:2017: -

4.2.17.2 Prevention of tampering

a) Anti-tampering relevant parameters shall only be accessible to the manufacturer or authorized persons and changes of software configuration parameters require programming tools that are not commercially available or security protected.
b) Assumable manipulations on the approval relevant configuration shall be prevented or compensated by effective counter measures, i.e. plausibility logics to detect manipulations on sensors

 

[Mikerb]

Interesting discussion that probably we should continue elsewhere. It seems there are recent changes to manufacturer guidelines that came into force around April 1st 2019. From EN15194:2017: -

4.2.17.2 Prevention of tampering

a) Anti-tampering relevant parameters shall only be accessible to the manufacturer or authorized persons and changes of software configuration parameters require programming tools that are not commercially available or security protected.
b) Assumable manipulations on the approval relevant configuration shall be prevented or compensated by effective counter measures, i.e. plausibility logics to detect manipulations on sensors

Brilliant! Do you have a url link to that?
This discussion is fundamental not off topic. The bigger picture as demonstrated by Karsten in Denmark is the way in which Governments balance the existing tax and legislative structure for motorised vehicles with the need to promote more eco friendly forms of transport. Emtbs will get caught up in that process.....and not in a good way if existing concessions for pedelecs are abused.

 

[Marcelfacd]

Brilliant! Do you have a url link to that?
This discussion is fundamental not off topic. The bigger picture as demonstrated by Karsten in Denmark is the way in which Governments balance the existing tax and legislative structure for motorised vehicles with the need to promote more eco friendly forms of transport. Emtbs will get caught up in that process.....and not in a good way if existing concessions for pedelecs are abused.

This all does not change the fact that e-bikes intended for off road use are exempted......so in a juridical way a person who de-restricts his/her bike and mainly rides off-road (easily to prove with logging) is not acting illegal. It is literally the text in the EU law, you can like it or dislike it, it is as it is.

 

[Lithium]

Brilliant! Do you have a url link to that?

Almost! - this was the article I read Latest EU Commission’s Decision Changed Legal Status of E-Bikes. I then emailed a friend in the bike industry and asked them to tell me what was in EN15194 - I couldn't find this online without paying over £1000...

 

[Mikerb]

Almost! - this was the article I read Latest EU Commission’s Decision Changed Legal Status of E-Bikes. I then emailed a friend in the bike industry and asked them to tell me what was in EN15194 - I couldn't find this online without paying over £1000...

Maybe just ask him what section 4.2.17 says. That section is titled " Anti tampering measures". In brief I read the new directive as incorporating EN15194 into EPAC thus making a single standard for the construction of pedelecs covering both electrical and mechanical requirements.