2019 Turbo levo

[alfa7]

Hello all,

I've just got a base model 2019 turbo levo. Excellent bike but the only complaint I have is that it hits the 15mph limit too quickly. I know they are tuneable etc but concerned about losing my warranty.

Has anyone replaced the front sprocket of theirs to get a higher top speed?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Indigo]

Turbo Levo Chainring Replacement

 

[bowser]

speed limit is measured via the magnet on the rear wheel. Changing the front sprocket won't do anything.
You need to derestrict it to get it to go faster, either by electrical means or mechanical means

 

[alfa7]

Thanks for the response. So I presume there is no way of derestricting without affecting the warranty?

 

[Rich-Baillon]

Thanks for the response. So I presume there is no way of derestricting without affecting the warranty?

No

 

[Marcelfacd]

Thanks for the response. So I presume there is no way of derestricting without affecting the warranty?

There is, I’ve put in a PearTune ‘dongle’. Takes away the restriction and works like a charm. In case of problems or service you just unplug it, put the wiring back as it was ....no traces left ;-)

 

[Rich-Baillon]

There is, I’ve put in a PearTune ‘dongle’. Takes away the restriction and works like a charm. In case of problems or service you just unplug it, put the wiring back as it was ....no traces left ;-)

Does void the warranty though.

 

[Marcelfacd]

Does void the warranty though.

How? Explain?

 

[Wurley]

I used to own a Haibike with a badass derestrictor fitted
It worked by covering up the speed sensor
Worked a treat but speedo wasn’t correct reading
Had it serviced by Haibike dealer who said it wasn’t traceable on the bikes computer so warrenty still ok
I changed it to a derestrictor that plunged in pretty much the same as a pear tune device Dealer said it showed up on bikes computer even after I’d taken it off before they checked bike warrenty void
I’ve got a 19 Levo that’s derestricted but speedo doesn’t read correct speed so mission control doesn’t show correct miles for your rides
Hope that helps

 

[alfa7]

I used to own a Haibike with a badass derestrictor fitted
It worked by covering up the speed sensor
Worked a treat but speedo wasn’t correct reading
Had it serviced by Haibike dealer who said it wasn’t traceable on the bikes computer so warrenty still ok
I changed it to a derestrictor that plunged in pretty much the same as a pear tune device Dealer said it showed up on bikes computer even after I’d taken it off before they checked bike warrenty void
I’ve got a 19 Levo that’s derestricted but speedo doesn’t read correct speed so mission control doesn’t show correct miles for your rides
Hope that helps

Hi, yes thanks it does. It doesn't look like I'll be able to make it go any faster without voiding the warranty which is a shame because it does top out quite quickly.

Maybe I will just ride with it as is for a couple of years and then derestrict it once it is out of warranty.

 

[miPbiP]

There is, I’ve put in a PearTune ‘dongle’. Takes away the restriction and works like a charm. In case of problems or service you just unplug it, put the wiring back as it was ....no traces left ;-)

I think the TCU or the battery circuits record the bike's movement history. Perhaps in more detail than we realise.

 

[alfa7]

I think the TCU or the battery circuits record the bike's movement history. Perhaps in more detail than we realise.

Probably, that's why I am likely not going to risk it. I thought that a bigger front sprocket may helped.

 

[Marcelfacd]

I had my TCU ad battery checked at the dealer due to bluetooth connection problems. They ran some diagnostics and concluded the power cable wasnt 100% did some cleaning with pressurized air.....all worked out.
All the time during the diagnostics the PearTune was connected and did not show up in any way. I'm not too concerned.
Apart from that.... they have to proof the derestriction is the cause of failure if anything fails. Otherwise the could just as well state that putting a 'trek'sticker on your bike voids warranty....yeah right.

 

[dogzilla]

People have been saying the same thing about Car ECU tuning for years, it's never really been a huge issue. (yes occasionally with big insurance claims involved I've heard but 99% of cases dealers don't check)

So as far as bikes are concerned, I'd be surprised if anyone is taking any sort of notice or even that their ecu's are recording this stuff, it's not worth the extra expense building it into the components and having people code it up.

Given that top speed is just a question of gearing and power output, there's no added wear as such on the motor if you are a fit person pedalling at 35kmh or a old dude that's using 100% of the power to get to 25k/h.

So yeah, warranty.... it wouldn't concern me imo, as long as you aren't cutting/splicing into the bike to achieve the unlock and can remove it.

 

[TMS]

Given that top speed is just a question of gearing and power output, there's no added wear as such on the motor if you are a fit person pedalling at 35kmh or a old dude that's using 100% of the power to get to 25k/h.

I disagree about the wear. Of course motor and battery gets more load than before if derestriction (same rider). Not more peak power but more load time per km. And less time to cool down. I pedal very often over 25 km/h. And in rough terrain the whole bike gets more stress and wear if you ride faster than before. Of course there is more aggressive riders than the other. But that was not the case.

Should derestriction affect to warranty? I think yes and no. Maybe not because the bike is still used like it was meant to. The frame and parts should handle higher average speeds. But if the motor wears out too quickly because it pushes 100 % all the time, I think it was not meant to take that. Do you think you should have new family car if you floor it in race track all day long and motor explodes or wears out too quickly?

So yeah, warranty.... it wouldn't concern me imo, as long as you aren't cutting/splicing into the bike to achieve the unlock and can remove it.

Despite what i wrote above, I agree. Manufacturer collects a lot of data and uses analytics (Privacy Policy | Specialized.com ). So it's easy to prove that you have derestricted your bike. Do they use the data in warranty cases? I doubt.

 

[miPbiP]

Before I bought my Levo I asked the dealer what faults they get most. He told me most that come back had been "hacked".

Interpret that as you wish.

 

[Marcelfacd]

I disagree about the wear. Of course motor and battery gets more load than before if derestriction (same rider). Not more peak power but more load time per km. And less time to cool down. I pedal very often over 25 km/h. And in rough terrain the whole bike gets more stress and wear if you ride faster than before. Of course there is more aggressive riders than the other. But that was not the case.

Should derestriction affect to warranty? I think yes and no. Maybe not because the bike is still used like it was meant to. The frame and parts should handle higher average speeds. But if the motor wears out too quickly because it pushes 100 % all the time, I think it was not meant to take that. Do you think you should have new family car if you floor it in race track all day long and motor explodes or wears out too quickly?


Despite what i wrote above, I agree. Manufacturer collects a lot of data and uses analytics (Privacy Policy | Specialized.com ). So it's easy to prove that you have derestricted your bike. Do they use the data in warranty cases? I doubt.

Why worry about the extended wear on going over 25kmh while in the US the very same bikes go up to 32kmh and on speed pedelecs the very same motor is used up to 45 kmh

 

[dogzilla]

Not more peak power but more load time per km. And less time to cool down.

At 35km/h you will get there much faster so we can argue less motor on time?

Especially if we are talking about a fit rider. All I need is 100watts from the motor!

Most bike manufacturers will sell "pedelec" versions that will go to 45k/h and for the most part the components are the same. Maybe slightly stronger brakes.

These things are designed to be very reliable, there's no reason why these motors cannot keep running for thousands of kilometres IMO. If you are sensible and check/service them on a regular basis.[/QUOTE]

 

[crea2k]

Any of the dongles that unlock the bike by fooling the speed sensor should have no effect on the warranty.

This is because you only pull the sensor out, put it into unlock dongle and attach the new magnet to the spoke.

The way it works is the faster the magnet spins the faster the pulses are generated and the bike reads the pulses to work out the wheel speed.

On the unlock boxes that use the sensor, the unlock box just reads the pulses from the magnet and then halves the pulse rate and uses a coil in the box to generate the new pulse rate onto the sensor.

So once you remove the box there is no trace of it, so no warranty to break, as you only change the data the sensor is fed and nothing more.

 

[Marcelfacd]

Before I bought my Levo I asked the dealer what faults they get most. He told me most that come back had been "hacked".

Interpret that as you wish.

Reading all the problems with the Levo in this forum.........non related to hacking.
That would make it IMHO very impropable that there are even more bikes with problems related to hacking....no way. Besides that, what is his definition of hacking and why would altered speed raise problems on a e-mtb and not on a speed-pedelec

 

[TMS]

At 35km/h you will get there much faster so we can argue less motor on time?

I am quite sure that if the speed limit is 35 km/h you will use more energy from battery per km than if the limit is 25 km/h. No need to argue

And again, with all the data and analytics you can say if the bike has been redestricted. Maybe some short tests are invisible but in the long run. You can hide fake pulses but not suspicious power consumption. Maybe I'm wrong but that's how I think it is.

 

[miPbiP]

I am quite sure that if the speed limit is 35 km/h you will use more energy from battery per km than if the limit is 25 km/h. No need to argue

yup, wind resistance is proportional to velocity squared.

 

[alfa7]

I'm sure I asked in the dealer and they said they could tell by the drain on the battery

 

[Mikerb]

Considerable efforts were made to ensure the E bike industry could avoid the cost of type approval, which would in turn radically increase the retail price. In order to avoid that requirement E Bikes had to concur with a number of restrictions. The first was that power would only be available when the bike is pedalled and the second was that the maximum speed would be restricted. Throughout the EU the only legal E bike is a pedelec which conforms to both of those restrictions. The speed within the EU is restricted to 25kph. In order to prove that their E Bikes conform to those restrictions, manufacturers have been obliged to progressively block ways in which their E Bikes can be modified to achieve higher assisted speeds. It is therefore logical that at the very least the brands have to demonstrate that the software programme controlling the bike is able to detect any such modification. The next stage is very likely to be that firmware upgrades will include code to disable any bike fitted with a modification.
I think it is already the case that any malfunction of a hacking device is likely to corrupt the firmware.

 

[Marcelfacd]

I'm sure I asked in the dealer and they said they could tell by the drain on the battery

I dont believe that.
When I look at the figures from my bike, I’ve got it de restricted for about 2 months now, before I rode it factory standard for about 3 months. The figures throughout these months are quite comparible. Ranging from 9,3Kw/km up to close to 14Kw/km.
Reason I guess is simple. I ride sometimes in mountainous areas, sometimes hilly and sometimes flat, I sometimes ride full speed, and other times more relaxed. Sometimes only 15% support, sometimes 30-40, and some stretches 55% and everything over and in between. So all this variables can not possibly be any different than from having a deristricted bike that can give you a higher average speed om SOME stretches.

 

[miPbiP]

For a given distance, the higher the speed the more energy needed.

That must leave tell-tales all over the battery use stats.

Does the Spesh diagnostic software pick those up? Do they care?

I don't know.

But I don't believe they can't.

 

[Marcelfacd]

For a given distance, the higher the speed the more energy needed.

That must leave tell-tales all over the battery use stats.

Does the Spesh diagnostic software pick those up? Do they care?

I don't know.

But I don't believe they can't.

Absolutely....but the thing is.............(havent done the maths but for arguments sake) if i pedal 25Km/h with 80% support it ll give me probably more drainage then 35km/h with 30% support. So my point was and is that just drainage is not an indicator.

 

[Marcelfacd]

I think it is already the case that any malfunction of a hacking device is likely to corrupt the firmware.

Highly unlikely if not impossible. The only thing these things do is changing or rather adjusting the pulse-rhytm. Its a process that is totally isolated from motor, battery let alone firmware. The restriction in itself is a dumb technology.
Only the new bosch motors have a setting in the firmware which cuts of power when over 25km/h and has to be reset when this happens more then 3 times. This is also a very simple if/then setting but still very effective from a producers point of view.

 

[miPbiP]

Absolutely....but the thing is.............(havent done the maths but for arguments sake) if i pedal 25Km/h with 80% support it ll give me probably more drainage then 35km/h with 30% support. So my point was and is that just drainage is not an indicator.

Spesh have data from millions of rides to compare against. There will be tell tale patterns.

Individually we all like to think we're special. We're not.

 

[dogzilla]

I am quite sure that if the speed limit is 35 km/h you will use more energy from battery per km than if the limit is 25 km/h.

Yes if you are comparing an identical course with a fixed rider power output then that's an obvious conclusion, more power is required from the battery and motor.

All you are saying is that "using more power puts more wear onto the motor+batteries" yes of course but it's not a problem specific to speed. A ride with 1500m elevation puts more load on the bike than a ride with 500m elevation. A heavier rider puts more load than a lighter rider. etc....

These bikes are designed to run at full power in high temperatures for long periods of time and many riders will be putting just as much load on them going uphill at slower speeds than someone doing 35km/h on the smooth flats. So it really depends and speed isn't the only factor.