2 months old and outdated already

[phutureproof]

Very frustrating to hear about the new Bosch system. My 2022 Whyte e150RS is already out of date. This sort of thing was my biggest concern with jumping on the eMTB bandwagon. It was obviously going to happen at some point, but I’d hoped more than two months.
I wonder when parts for my system will become harder to find?

 

[Zimmerframe]

Why is it "out of date" ?

It's still the same bike you bought 2 months ago. It still rides just as amazingly today as it did yesterday. It still as fast and capable.

Is something "out of date" if there's a software upgrade ? Look at half the levo crowd - whilst they're desperate to have the latest and greatest, they don't get software UPDATES because they're scared the newest won't actually be better.

So Bosch has they've changed the way the system works a bit, it finally incorporates bluetooth and has an app with the lower spec control models - you can already have all this with the Niox if that's what floats your boat.

There's a new controller which dumps the re-cycled 1980's Nokia phone's for a cutdown, but possibly bulkier, 1990's Nintendo controller instead

Presumably aimed at the touring bike market or cycling delivery bikes so they can still text whilst riding.

There's a new battery, which gives another 125wh, but at the disproportional expense of another 1kg of weight. It's also longer, moving more weight up the bike and forwards.

I think too many of us see these tiny changes and presume what we have is "out of date" when in the real world, they're just alternatives and not advancements.

 

[Tim1023]

I worked in the computer networking industry in the 90s*. Practically every network and computer technology was overtaken every six months.

Fun times!

*When I started, a modem was a big box that you sold separately!

 

[Aikone]

Both systems run concurrently in the brand I’ve been looking at, with the new system only on the top 2 models, as it’s more expensive I wouldn’t be surprised to see this continue for a few years.

I ordered a bike with the ‘old’ system 2 months back when the new system was rumoured, it’s still awesome, and as a model is discontinued in the UK for 22 so I’m glad I didn’t wait.

 

[RustyMTB]

Lol @ the user name. You have an awesome bike, whose purpose is to send you shredding through the trails which it can do with aplomb. Given demand for ebikes is outstripping supply massively, leaving thousands of riders without a bike, a sense of perspective would help.

 

[InRustWeTrust]

I do not know what it is with people that they must always have the latest, you will not immediately become a better cyclist because you have the newest engines or bikes.

just ride youre 2022 Whyte e150RS and have fun.

 

[phutureproof]

My bike is great, but I am not really complaining about that. It's availability of parts and spares really. In 4 or 5 years, will we still be able to get repairs/spares/batteries for a 2022 (vintage!) system I wonder?

Yep - being 'phutureproof' isn't really possible with tech! lol.

 

[phutureproof]

Lol @ the user name. You have an awesome bike, whose purpose is to send you shredding through the trails which it can do with aplomb. Given demand for ebikes is outstripping supply massively, leaving thousands of riders without a bike, a sense of perspective would help.

I have a sense of perspective thank you very much.

 

[Burnsey]

Mines only a week old and bought knowing about the change.

I use the term change as opposed to upgrade as I prefer one unit on the handlebars and a little less weight.

If we all wait for updates, we would never buy anything to be fair.

 

[phutureproof]

If we all wait for updates, we would never buy anything to be fair.

Very true indeed. Was it the same with analogue bikes though? Suddenly there is 'tech' involved, so it is more like buying a computer than something mechanical. The wheels of consumerism...

 

[Swiss Roll]

I am not so bothered either by not having the new system, it doesn't seem like such a giant leap into the future.
I am curious though, does the new motor have the same mounting bolts?
One could then feasibly replace the whole system. Probably not that cost efficient, I imagine.

 

[Zimmerframe]

It’s just the nature of time man. My mid 90s girl is about to be replaced by an early 2000s model.

Yeah, but when we decide our bike is old and we're getting another one, everyone doesn't go "That lucky lucky bike" ...

 

[Jackware]

It’s just the nature of time man. My mid 90s girl is about to be replaced by an early 2000s model.

Can't you just patch her up?

 

[RustyMTB]

Very true indeed. Was it the same with analogue bikes though? Suddenly there is 'tech' involved, so it is more like buying a computer than something mechanical. The wheels of consumerism...

Yes mate, it was. Literally none of us are hucking Penny Farthings. Neo-luddism is an... interesting angle to bring to an ebike forum, so this should be fun.

 

[The EMF]

My bike is great, but I am not really complaining about that. It's availability of parts and spares really. In 4 or 5 years, will we still be able to get repairs/spares/batteries for a 2022 (vintage!) system I wonder?

Yep - being 'phutureproof' isn't really possible with tech! lol.

Of course you will, after all the bike is basically tubes bolted together with a few bearings hoyed in for good measure. Oh and a motor…..don’t over think the upgrade carry on ?
Just rip ya bike.
I was out one day on my 2 month old Whyte E-150 RS and then The Hodge rolled by with his shiny (matt actually) new E-160 RS…….I don’t feel my bike is old school just yet ?

 

[RustyIron]

It’s just the nature of time man. My mid 90s girl is about to be replaced by an early 2000s model.

Careful what you wish for, brother.
The newer models require more maintenance and don't give as plush a ride.

 

[MrHeils]

Honestly having just bought my bike two months ago I was also a bit gutted when I saw the announcement today and immediately got the "fomo" feeling about not having the latest and greatest.

And the when I look at the details I realised that actually I'm not really interested in any of the updates. I'm quite happy with the "old school" display on mine - seems sturdy, does the job and I don't need a colour screen to feel fancy. Don't really want to be buggering about with the power settings on it and don't think I ever want anything bluetooth on the bike as that just seems like more stuff to go wrong, firmware update issues etc. Frankly, I'm more than happy with with my "weaker" 625kw battery - in fact most days I wonder if a 500kw wouldn't suit about 90% of my outings just fine. That big display in the middle would've certainly been cracked off in a few offs I've already had. It doesn't seem to have an updated drivetrain which is the only thing that seems really important to me.

And finally, I'm already having so much bloody fun on my bike that even if there were some of these things that I may have wanted - I don't really think they're gonna improve my riding experience in the slightest.

In fact, I think I might go out for a bike ride just to remind myself how lucky I already am with what I've got.

 

[R120]

IMO the motor is the least important part of the equation with modern EMTB’s - all the motors from the last few years are good and do as advertised.

how the bike fits, rides and the components on it are what is going to determine how much fun you are having.

I still ride a coming up for 4 years old Vitus because even though I am lucky to ride a lot of the latest bikes, I have yet to ride one that is more fun - ridden a fair few as fun, but none that would make me fork out 5k plus and wave goodbye to the old girl.

 

[RustyIron]

My Ibis is 4.5 years old, and I still love it. There's no sense in replacing it now. My eMTB is three months old today, and when I bought it, I fully realized it wouldn't be long until the new models came out. It doesn't matter, because I've had three months of fun on the new bike, and the new ones aren't even available yet.

Obsessing over not having something is covetousness. I think it was Moses or Buddha or Rosie O'Donnell who said that it's a bad thing. Get out and ride your fancy new bike. It will lift your spirits and you'll quickly forget about your awful misfortune.

 

[jerry]

*When I started, a modem was a big box that you sold separately!

Ahh, the good days, with US Robotics.... 9600!!! 1 month later: 12.8!!! Then, 14.4!!! Then, miracle! "X2" (28.8). Then - unbelievable - 56.6!!!! and all of it within a year or so

 

[Neeko DeVinchi]

My Ibis is 4.5 years old, and I still love it. There's no sense in replacing it now. My eMTB is three months old today, and when I bought it, I fully realized it wouldn't be long until the new models came out. It doesn't matter, because I've had three months of fun on the new bike, and the new ones aren't even available yet.

Obsessing over not having something is covetousness. I think it was Moses or Buddha or Rosie O'Donnell who said that it's a bad thing. Get out and ride your fancy new bike. It will lift your spirits and you'll quickly forget about your awful misfortune.

Rock on @RustyIron. Respect??

 

[Neeko DeVinchi]

Besides, most bikes which are designed are relatively future-proof anyway.
I'm still rocking my 2018 Levo FSR with 2500miles on the original motor. And my other eebs (2019 Kenevo Expert x2 & Levo Hardtail 2019) are still going strong.

In addition, they guys at Whyte aren't stupid. They've built their eebs knowing that Bosch would develop their system further.

I'm sure Guy Kesteven even commented on this on his review

 

[Doug Stampfer]

And the when I look at the details I realised that actually I'm not really interested in any of the updates. I'm quite happy with the "old school" display on mine - seems sturdy, does the job and I don't need a colour screen to feel fancy. Don't really want to be buggering about with the power settings on it and don't think I ever want anything bluetooth on the bike as that just seems like more stuff to go wrong, firmware update issues etc. Frankly, I'm more than happy with with my "weaker" 625kw battery - in fact most days I wonder if a 500kw wouldn't suit about 90% of my outings just fine. That big display in the middle would've certainly been cracked off in a few offs I've already had. It doesn't seem to have an updated drivetrain which is the only thing that seems really important to me.

Totally agree with you on all fronts there. I saw that new screen & immediately thought I would have to buy a repacement one with the new bike.
I would have thought a better idea would be to have twin smaller batteries that joined together as my 2 hr rides only usually use up a couple of bars & losing a couple of kilos for a playful ride would be quite nice

 

[DanMcDan]

My favourite bike in my stable is a 2016 5010cc, even after 5 years it’s still the most fun bike that I’ve ever ridden, even more so than my Rise which is 4 months old and blows my mind at how fast it is, but the 5010 is way more fun.

 

[The Hodge]

My favourite bike in my stable is a 2016 5010cc, even after 5 years it’s still the most fun bike that I’ve ever ridden, even more so than my Rise which is 4 months old and blows my mind at how fast it is, but the 5010 is way more fun.

The 5010 is the best mtb Ive ever ridden ..bar none ..I was fortunate enough to borrow one for a week while my own bike was in for repair ..I couldnt quite stretch to affording one when the time came to replace my Nomad ..but the T130rs came very close at about 1k less ..

 

[Neeko DeVinchi]

My favourite bike in my stable is a 2016 5010cc, even after 5 years it’s still the most fun bike that I’ve ever ridden, even more so than my Rise which is 4 months old and blows my mind at how fast it is, but the 5010 is way more fun.

Let's be honest though @DanMcDan, Santa Cruz bikes don't age ?

My uncle is still rocking his tallboy after 6-7 years of ownership.

 

[Mikerb]

The Levo has had much of what Bosch are now planning to introduce for years. I have a 2019 Levo Comp. I used the app to set the set the parameters of the 3 modes in the first month of ownership, never changed it since........in fact I have only used the app at all, maybe a couple of times a year just to check the mileage ( which I use to assess when I should plan to do a full service on it). The software is the same as when I bought the bike......if it aint broke leave it alone! Given the E bike industry experience of electronics and software comms there is no way I would risk OTA software updates .........if I was interested in any updates that is!
Do I want a fancy (expensive) display giving me a whole range of information I have no interest in meanwhile acting as an uneccessary electronic/software fault and/or damage prone device sitting in the bikes circuitry? Nope.

I know some folk do like all the additional info but all of it is available on stand alone 3rd party devices that do not risk your bike being unuseable if they go wrong.

I also have Bosch powered bike. I did get the software changed on that once, simply because it delivered an obvious benefit to me...increase of torque to 85nm. I have not bothered with any subsequent updates.
Do I miss being able to configure the modes? Not really. There is plenty to be gained from simply learning over time how to maximise the motor performance both with gearing and cadence and where necessary a combination of motor power and brake drag. The only bit of information I typically use ( asper the Levo above) is total mileage, and the Purion provides that.

 

[phutureproof]

This gets funnier.

Firstly you think your Whyte is outdated just because Bosch has updated some bits

Then, what do you mean "was it the same with analogue bikes" ?
Do you think analogue bikes (I assume you mean normal bikes) have ceased to exist, with the existence of assisted bikes ?

And yes, thankfully proper bikes continue to evolve just like assisted bikes.
Shimano has just rendered my 3 month old, 11 speed Ultegra equipped proper bike utterly outdated, by introducing 12 speed Ultegra.
OMG, how the heck am I going to manage 100 miles tomorrow, without that 12th ratio ? (or a motor for that matter)

For goodness sake, get out and ride the damned thing.

Calm yourself down fella. No need to get your knickers in a twist.

 

[phutureproof]

The Levo has had much of what Bosch are now planning to introduce for years. I have a 2019 Levo Comp. I used the app to set the set the parameters of the 3 modes in the first month of ownership, never changed it since........in fact I have only used the app at all, maybe a couple of times a year just to check the mileage ( which I use to assess when I should plan to do a full service on it). The software is the same as when I bought the bike......if it aint broke leave it alone! Given the E bike industry experience of electronics and software comms there is no way I would risk OTA software updates .........if I was interested in any updates that is!
Do I want a fancy (expensive) display giving me a whole range of information I have no interest in meanwhile acting as an uneccessary electronic/software fault and/or damage prone device sitting in the bikes circuitry? Nope.

I know some folk do like all the additional info but all of it is available on stand alone 3rd party devices that do not risk your bike being unuseable if they go wrong.

I also have Bosch powered bike. I did get the software changed on that once, simply because it delivered an obvious benefit to me...increase of torque to 85nm. I have not bothered with any subsequent updates.
Do I miss being able to configure the modes? Not really. There is plenty to be gained from simply learning over time how to maximise the motor performance both with gearing and cadence and where necessary a combination of motor power and brake drag. The only bit of information I typically use ( asper the Levo above) is total mileage, and the Purion provides that.

I’m not particularly interested in software adjustments of power settings etc either. Seems a lot of faff for something that I can’t imagine ever feeling when I’m (badly) cycling from a-b on rough terrain. A lot of people love to tweak that kind of stuff though.

 

[Mikerb]

I’m not particularly interested in software adjustments of power settings etc either. Seems a lot of faff for something that I can’t imagine ever feeling when I’m (badly) cycling from a-b on rough terrain. A lot of people love to tweak that kind of stuff though.

sorry....bit of a rant I know but my point is that with each additional element of complexity comes additional opportunities for things to go wrong and just like ( for example) Gopro in its early days, organisations whose core business is bike design ( or in Gopros case, action camera design), their ventures into software development and especially blutooth or wifi comms is invariably flakey until they gain the right experience and the right personnel. It took Gopro nearly a decade to create an acceptably robust product.
Bosch originally had I believe the right approach. Keep it simple and keep it locked. Then they started with the Kiox etc, which from my observations has only served to make the entire bike less reliable. Now they seem intent on turning an ebike into a Nintendo on wheels.

There are only 3 things I would want Bosch et al to bring to market

1. Comprehensive sealing of all electrical components and wiring against the elements and damage.
2. The ability to apply to the supplier to have a motor remotely "bricked" if stolen..........or better still tracked.
3. A fully available service programme for emtb motors such that motors can be serviced in the same way we service suspension etc. It should not be the case that we run a motor until it breaks without warning.