10 speed groupset

[Andyhp]

Hello chaps, I’ve had my Rail 7 for a couple of years now and I’m done with the stock hub breaking. I’m wanting a 10 speed and looking to see what/if who’s done it and what components you’ve gone for. Pros & cons? Any info would be great. Cheers

 

[Nomad1]

That bike has 12speed from the factory right?

 

[Andyhp]

That bike has 12speed from the factory right?

Yep

 

[Paulquattro]

Welcome

 

[Nomad1]

Yep

Are going thru hubs or cassettes? What do have for gear ratio's now?

 

[mike_kelly]

Sram pretty much abandoned 10s. AdventX by Microshift.

 

[BigG]

Shimano linkglide. Designed to LAST.
Has 10 and 11 speed versions, thicker cogs on full steel 11-50 (might be less in 10sp) cassette, for HG hub body. Cassette weighs about 150g more than GX.
Full transmission costs less than single sram cassette. Shifts quiet and under load, bit slower shifting though, not critical, fractions of seconds. Has multishifting up too.

I ditched sram x01 setup for it on my Voima, because wear: I don’t want to buy $400 cassettes and $100 chains with e-bike levels of wear.
I’m running XT M8130 series, and CS-LG700-11 cassette.
Not missing 10t cog at all, because reaching top speed where assist stops is very easy on 11t as well.

Note: you need linkgide mech, shifter and cassette, and maybe HG freehub body for your hub.
Front chainrings and chains can be anything 10/11. but they do make linkglide chain though which is a bit stronger and more flexible.

 

[Andyhp]

Are going thru hubs or cassettes? What do have for gear ratio's now?

Standard rail 7. I’m running Shimano slx m7100 (10-51) 12 speed. Microspline.

 

[Andyhp]

Shimano linkglide. Designed to LAST.
Has 10 and 11 speed versions, thicker cogs on full steel 11-50 (might be less in 10sp) cassette, for HG hub body. Cassette weighs about 150g more than GX.
Full transmission costs less than single sram cassette. Shifts quiet and under load, bit slower shifting though, not critical, fractions of seconds. Has multishifting up too.

I ditched sram x01 setup for it on my Voima, because wear: I don’t want to buy $400 cassettes and $100 chains with e-bike levels of wear.
I’m running XT M8130 series, and CS-LG700-11 cassette.
Not missing 10t cog at all, because reaching top speed where assist stops is very easy on 11t as well.

Note: you need linkgide mech, shifter and cassette, and maybe HG freehub body for your hub.
Front chainrings and chains can be anything 10/11. but they do make linkglide chain though which is a bit stronger and more flexible.

Yeah I’ve looked at Linkglide, I’ll go to the shop today and see if they have it in yet (doubtful). I’m getting new hope wheels with HG freehub. Cheers mate.

 

[BigG]

Np, good luck. Try getting steel HG freehub, should be an option for hope hubs. e-bikes eat aluminum ones quite hard with this cassette design.

 

[Paulquattro]

Shimano linkglide. Designed to LAST.
Has 10 and 11 speed versions, thicker cogs on full steel

Hi
I take it with thicker cogs you need a different chain specific too the linkglide then and a specific front sprocket
did you buy it all as one complete groupset or buy it separately ?

 

[BigG]

Hi
I take it with thicker cogs you need a different chain specific too the linkglide then and a specific front sprocket
did you buy it all as one complete groupset or buy it separately ?

No, front chainring can be 10/11/12 and chain can be anything 10/11.
I run sram steel chainring but my chain is Linkglide indeed.
I jut got the following (11speed):

1. M8130 shifter and derailleur
2. CS-LG700-11 cassette
3. CN-LG500 chain.

You can find groups here: LINKGLIDE | SHIMANO BIKE-US

You may want new front chainring and chain anyway though, if current ones are worn, otherwise chain skipping or chainsuck may occur - that’s just fact of life, not Linkglide specific. Any 10/11/12 chainring should work, sram included.
12sp chain will NOT work.

 

[BigG]

new cassettes are not that heavy. 1st version was 780…

 

[Paulquattro]

No, front chainring can be 10/11/12 and chain can be anything 10/11.
I run sram steel chainring but my chain is Linkglide indeed.
I jut got the following (11speed):

1. M8130 shifter and derailleur
2. CS-LG700-11 cassette
3. CN-LG500 chain.

You can find groups here: LINKGLIDE | SHIMANO BIKE-US

You may want new front chainring and chain anyway though, if current ones are worn, otherwise chain skipping or chainsuck may occur - that’s just fact of life, not Linkglide specific. Any 10/11/12 chainring should work, sram included.
12sp chain will NOT work.

Thanks
When you mentioned thicker cogs it got my attention but if you can run standard front chainrings the thickness difference cant be on the wearing parts ,
I find its always better to ask a user than anything else , real world experience and all that

 

[Nomad1]

Shimano linkglide. Designed to LAST.
Has 10 and 11 speed versions, thicker cogs on full steel 11-50 (might be less in 10sp) cassette, for HG hub body. Cassette weighs about 150g more than GX.
Full transmission costs less than single sram cassette. Shifts quiet and under load, bit slower shifting though, not critical, fractions of seconds. Has multishifting up too.

I ditched sram x01 setup for it on my Voima, because wear: I don’t want to buy $400 cassettes and $100 chains with e-bike levels of wear.
I’m running XT M8130 series, and CS-LG700-11 cassette.
Not missing 10t cog at all, because reaching top speed where assist stops is very easy on 11t as well.

Note: you need linkgide mech, shifter and cassette, and maybe HG freehub body for your hub.
Front chainrings and chains can be anything 10/11. but they do make linkglide chain though which is a bit stronger and more flexible.

I would definitely miss the 10cog I'd run out gear quicker running downhill you can only spin the pedals so fast, and you run out of gear plus your top end is lower with the 11. I mostly use my 10 tooth down hills and some flats for more speed. For some losing the 10 would ..... well be a loss but other not. A 11 cog certain isn't a bad choice for someone that doesn't find them selves running out of gear.

 

[BigG]

I would definitely miss the 10cog I'd run out gear quicker running downhill you can only spin the pedals so fast, and you run out of gear plus your top end is lower with the 11. I mostly use my 10 tooth down hills and some flats for more speed. For some losing the 10 would ..... well be a loss but other not. A 11 cog certain isn't a bad choice for someone that doesn't find them selves running out of gear.

If you really need to spin out 10t unassisted or have a derestricted bike then yeah, might be a bummer. Doesn’t make a difference at all if you only ride in assisted speed ranges. US speed limit is pretty adequate I find personally.

A lot of bikes take up to 38t front though, so possible to somewhat work around it.
Should still be possible to climb stupid steep with 38/50. I rarely use 50t at all, climb where 34/50t is really needed is so steep it just flips the bike, even 137cm wheelbase Voima K4.

Let’s hope shimano comes up with microspline Linkglide cassette. 10-51 will be mechanical perfection for ebikes.

There’s also 8 speed sram ex ebike group btw, but it’s designed stupidly. Cassette is still expensive and cogs are thin, uses weaker 12sp chain that wears faster and jumps between cogs are too large. And not even 50t max cog. Not sure if they even make it anymore.

 

[Nomad1]

If you really need to spin out 10t unassisted or have a derestricted bike then yeah, might be a bummer. Doesn’t make a difference at all if you only ride in assisted speed ranges. US speed limit is pretty adequate I find personally.

A lot of bikes take up to 38t front though, so possible to somewhat work around it.
Should still be possible to climb stupid steep with 38/50. I rarely use 50t at all, climb where 34/50t is really needed is so steep it just flips the bike, even 137cm wheelbase Voima K4.

Let’s hope shimano comes up with microspline Linkglide cassette. 10-51 will be mechanical perfection for ebikes.

There’s also 8 speed sram ex ebike group btw, but it’s designed stupidly. Cassette is still expensive and cogs are thin, uses weaker 12sp chain that wears faster and jumps between cogs are too large. And not even 50t max cog. Not sure if they even make it anymore.

Indeed if you don't need the ten why have it. My bike has the stock motor max assist of 20 and I find myself using it regularly but mostly when going downhill. Anyways as far the Ten speed vs 12 wear wise it isn't any different really. It depends more on what those components are including the hub, gear selection and how you shift. Also lube and Maintenace. There usable life span is shorter than it should be.

 

[Eduardoramundo]

new cassettes are not that heavy. 1st version was 780…

Thats good. The Microshift is heavier than that and the clutch’s do not last long. Deore is good as well though and super cheap but is only 46T. I will try linkglide next time.

 

[franciscoasismm]

Utilizar siempre Shimano Deore XT CS-M771 11-36 343g 60€ + SHIMANO 10v CN-HG95 116 23€.
Cada cassette me dura 3500 km y 700 km cada cadena

 

[Eduardoramundo]

Utilizar siempre Shimano Deore XT CS-M771 11-36 343g 60€ + SHIMANO 10v CN-HG95 116 23€.
Cada cassette me dura 3500 km y 700 km cada cadena

36T is not enough for the rides we do.

 

[franciscoasismm]

36T is not enough for the rides we do.

In the Easter holidays I did Angliru, which is the hardest port in Spain because it has a section, from Viapará to the top, in which the landings go to 10%, and an area, the Cueña de les Cabres, with its 500 meters at 22%, in which there is no development that allows you to go comfortable and booking

 

[jonmat]

I've just changed from 12 speed to 10 speed 11T - 46T. All parts basic Shimano Deore and less than £100 for the lot. I haven't missed the 50T so far. I also have Hope Pro 4 hub with HG steel free hub. 10 speed seems way more accurate and smoother than 12 speed.

 

[1oldfart]

The last 3 years i enjoy a Giant Estance it comes with
a deore 10 speeds, 36 front and 11-46 rear.
It is optimal in my opinion

 

[Nomad1]

The last 3 years i enjoy a Giant Estance it comes with
a deore 10 speeds, 36 front and 11-46 rear.
It is optimal in my opinion

Didn't work optimal for me not a big fan of the stock hub set for the wheel. The free hub it's self is a low pawl engagement system. That being said it was what would be expected stock at this level and was fairly good other than the bearing setup in the rear wheel (2020). I think they should change the bearing and cone setup if they haven't already, I found to be problematic. The gear ratios depend on the riding you do but spreading that 11-46 over a 12speed means smaller steps between gears and more choices and generally even smoother shifts.

 

[1oldfart]

Didn't work optimal for me not a big fan of the stock hub set for the wheel. The free hub it's self is a low pawl engagement system. That being said it was what would be expected stock at this level and was fairly good other than the bearing setup in the rear wheel (2020). I think they should change the bearing and cone setup if they haven't already, I found to be problematic. The gear ratios depend on the riding you do but spreading that 11-46 over a 12speed means smaller steps between gears and more choices and generally even smoother shifts.

The idea with a 9 or 10 speeds is you have the benefit of less shifting. I rarely use the 11T so i use
9 speeds. I only need 8 shifts to go over my range. There is no good reason to copy a regular bike
for an electric assisted bike. The 12S is crazy in my mind. It is just to ask 8,000 to 12,000$ for a toy.
I am happy with a new bike at 4,000 to 6,000$.

 

[Gyro]

After burning through 11 speed and then very expensive EX1 8 speed drive trains I've found the heavy and cheap
10-Speed Deore 11-46 cassette, Rear Derailleur RD M5120 and heavy Shimano Chain 10-Speed - (HGX-E-bike).
Outlasts everything by far, oil the chain every hour of riding for good measure.

 

[Jugglematt]

i went from the shimano 12s , 11-52 to the microshift advent x 10s group set . less gear range but i have to say a couple of months on im very happy and don't miss or need the extended gear range of the 12s cassette.
the microshift group set is cheaper to purchase .. and im actually running 3 chains and swapping them after every 200km to give me even wear on my cassette .

i also lube my chain via the crock pot wax and teflon method. see ozcycle ..... 13500km on using this lube method im happy but thats another story .

i was getting so frustrated with the 12s drivetrain , how finicky it was how it kept going out of alignment so quickly and the cost of deraliers and chains . now i can purchase a rear deralier and cassette for less than a cassette would cost me previously .

i did have to do a full drivetrain change over including shifter , cable, front chainring , rear cassette, deralier, chain and freehub body . bit of initial expense there but i do big kms so it will pay off

best of luck
Matt

 

[Nomad1]

The idea with a 9 or 10 speeds is you have the benefit of less shifting. I rarely use the 11T so i use
9 speeds. I only need 8 shifts to go over my range. There is no good reason to copy a regular bike
for an electric assisted bike. The 12S is crazy in my mind. It is just to ask 8,000 to 12,000$ for a toy.
I am happy with a new bike at 4,000 to 6,000$.

It doesn't cost 8000 to have the 12speed and if I want I can through my 12 in 4 clicks of the shifter so actual technically I can shift less. The 10 speed isn't bad, but I think you're a little misinformed about the 12speed. It's little like having a 5 speed automatic in your car instead of 3 speed automatic.

 

[jonmat]

i went from the shimano 12s , 11-52 to the microshift advent x 10s group set . less gear range but i have to say a couple of months on im very happy and don't miss or need the extended gear range of the 12s cassette.
the microshift group set is cheaper to purchase .. and im actually running 3 chains and swapping them after every 200km to give me even wear on my cassette .

i also lube my chain via the crock pot wax and teflon method. see ozcycle ..... 13500km on using this lube method im happy but thats another story .

i was getting so frustrated with the 12s drivetrain , how finicky it was how it kept going out of alignment so quickly and the cost of deraliers and chains . now i can purchase a rear deralier and cassette for less than a cassette would cost me previously .

i did have to do a full drivetrain change over including shifter , cable, front chainring , rear cassette, deralier, chain and freehub body . bit of initial expense there but i do big kms so it will pay off

best of luck
Matt

Totally agree Matt, 12 speed is a pian in the arse.

 

[Nomad1]

Totally agree Matt, 12 speed is a pian in the arse.

I didn't hear him say it was pain. I did hear him say it was cheaper and he didn't miss the range of the 12speed. I did the opposite and went to a 12speed because it did suit my needs better and they last the same amount time but the 12 does cost more.