Santa Cruz Vala

whitymon · Monday at 7:37 PM

I do not think you can compare the premium Santa Cruz vs fake-premium (sorry just my opinion) Orbea.

That said, they do not have the same travel entirely, vala is a bit less and with a smaller battery in upper configuration of the wild - don't think you can have a 750 on the vala at all.

Vala does not have a sh... headset in paper with integrated cables, frame and bearing are life guarantee (bearing can be replace indefinitely if I am not wrong, one per year?). Color are sh... to me.

On the other side the Wild is, looks burlier, warning on rear suspension you cannot mount whatever you want as there is not a lot of place (maybe this is solved by 2025 model). Colors are pretty sick!

Orbea frame is just a revamp for the Gen5, it works well, very sharp at the opposite the vala is completely new for the good/bad but apparently all people are.

If battery is not an issue or go with the 650 on both bike then, I would go with the vala even if the wild would have my preference with the 170mm this is not a total game changer - but I would pick the Fox38 package with the vala.

Now you know it is always hard to advice as it really depends on rider + trail.

Suns_PSD · Monday at 7:45 PM

I just read the other day (maybe on this site) about a guy with an Orbea Wild that had a certified Orbea dealer do bearing rebuilds at regular intervals, the frame wore out, and Orbea denied the warranty claiming lack of bearing maintenance.

On the other hand, I've known of some people that have gotten incredible warranty service from Santa Cruz.

So, unless the Wild is at least $4K less (not that you could even buy an e-bike frame for $4K) I'd take the Vala.

The amount of warranty horror stories that come from all the D2C brands is pretty frightening. Commencal, Orbea, YT, Canyon, etc. I've heard horror stories about all of them, some many times.

whitymon · Monday at 7:51 PM

Oh I forgot something I watch today, there is also nasty issue with the fork and the headset block on the Wild.

blabla, link is better than me trying to explain:

whitymon · Monday at 7:59 PM

Suns_PSD said:
The amount of warranty horror stories that come from all the D2C brands is pretty frightening. Commencal, Orbea, YT, Canyon, etc. I've heard horror stories about all of them, some many times.

You can add Propain too. From factory bike are really bad with barely enough grease.

- Propain tolerance on CF (even some AL part) are really one of the worst I have ever seen.
- Commencal, where I live, we have a lot of them and we break all frame - that does not mean other bike would have sustain but not a good publicity
- YT, I would have place them above the rest
- Canyon well, I have still 2 bike from them and they are awesome. Yes you need to regrease/adjust/trash headset day one. But it is okay.

The point is and where I would place a line on the sand, Canyon bikes are really $ for $ the best where Orbea feel still to me like a scam in comparison as there is no real reason.

I would agree to pay more a bike from Santa Cruz, Trek or Specialized as they just are the best in service after you buy a bike.
No need to argue, they want you happy, for an ebike where it is pretty expensive I still think it matters, at least to me it does a lot.

TheMirrorVision · Monday at 8:19 PM

Geetsrevoel said:
Any rumours on when the next two colours for the Vala will come and what they would be?

Probably at least 1 year after the initial launch since that's Santa Cruz's typical approach with model year color updates when the frame isn't being updated.

mehukatti · Tuesday at 1:44 PM

whitymon said:
I do not think you can compare the premium Santa Cruz vs fake-premium (sorry just my opinion) Orbea.

A local dealer (not Santa Cruz) showed me a photo from Orbea factory in Asia (China?) where they had a big pile of botched Orbea carbon frames from their production line. Not sure if this kind of thing is normal, but looked suspect AF.

ricoflashfire · Tuesday at 3:25 PM

whitymon said:
I do not think you can compare the premium Santa Cruz vs fake-premium (sorry just my opinion) Orbea.

That said, they do not have the same travel entirely, vala is a bit less and with a smaller battery in upper configuration of the wild - don't think you can have a 750 on the vala at all.

Vala does not have a sh... headset in paper with integrated cables, frame and bearing are life guarantee (bearing can be replace indefinitely if I am not wrong, one per year?). Color are sh... to me.

On the other side the Wild is, looks burlier, warning on rear suspension you cannot mount whatever you want as there is not a lot of place (maybe this is solved by 2025 model). Colors are pretty sick!

Orbea frame is just a revamp for the Gen5, it works well, very sharp at the opposite the vala is completely new for the good/bad but apparently all people are.

If battery is not an issue or go with the 650 on both bike then, I would go with the vala even if the wild would have my preference with the 170mm this is not a total game changer - but I would pick the Fox38 package with the vala.

Now you know it is always hard to advice as it really depends on rider + trail.

Hey,

To answer:
For the quality/premium bike, yes i think Santa Cruz it probably little better but i run on Rallon LTD upgraded lol during 4 years and i think it's really a good bike and good quality.
Same configuration for battery and motor on these two new bike Wild and Vala
Unfortunely I am agree with you for the color lol
In fact maybe we can mount an big Fast Suspension for the rear suspension.
I think is not a good idee to change 160mm to 170mm on this Vala because it can be change geometry of the bike.
On a muscule bike i think it's more or less the same think between 160 or 170 but on an ebike maybe it can be more interesting to have 170.

In my opinion:
-Public price is the same Wild LTD 11.999 vs 12.999 for Vala XX AXS RSV
-I think the racing sensations (geometry/handling) are close between these two bike (Vala and New Wild with mullet configuration).
-In fact Bearing are better on Vala but i think it's not a problem to change it when you can pay 10k on a bike, it is not a realy issue.
-I really prefer brakes on Vala (Maven) vs Wild (XTR), i realy dislike XTR. (but you change it like on my Rallon a strong MT7 lol).
-Overall the same transmission.
-For the new wild, for me you need to a mullet configuration and if you choice this configuration you can not choice (when you buy it) Carbon wheels it's a shame for a bike in this category (LTD).
-Same configuration for battery and motor on these two new bike Wild and Vala so maybe it's pretty much the same autonomy (i prefer 600 for the weigh and you can add, on these two bike, the same battery extender if you need).
-For rear transmission it's better 160(Wild) vs 150 (Vala), you can change it whith a big suspension (why not spiral) but i'm afraid it can change the bike geometry.

I'm convinced that the wild is a very good for the descent but i'm not sure Vala have the same level.

alowkeybro · Tuesday at 4:30 PM

Flo7 said:
Medium

How tall are you? Trying to size one for myself at 5'8. Thanks

Flo7 · 2024-11-20T19:19:39+0000

alowkeybro said:
How tall are you? Trying to size one for myself at 5'8. Thanks

170cm

LautSprecher · 2024-11-20T20:02:53+0000

I am 177 and feel good On an Medium. But i tend to like smaller bikes.

jbrown15 · 2024-11-20T20:07:19+0000

mehukatti said:
A local dealer (not Santa Cruz) showed me a photo from Orbea factory in Asia (China?) where they had a big pile of botched Orbea carbon frames from their production line. Not sure if this kind of thing is normal, but looked suspect AF.

Orbea Wild frames are manufactured and painted all in house at the factory is Spain.

jbrown15 · 2024-11-20T20:08:19+0000

Suns_PSD said:
I just read the other day (maybe on this site) about a guy with an Orbea Wild that had a certified Orbea dealer do bearing rebuilds at regular intervals, the frame wore out, and Orbea denied the warranty claiming lack of bearing maintenance.

On the other hand, I've known of some people that have gotten incredible warranty service from Santa Cruz.

So, unless the Wild is at least $4K less (not that you could even buy an e-bike frame for $4K) I'd take the Vala.

The amount of warranty horror stories that come from all the D2C brands is pretty frightening. Commencal, Orbea, YT, Canyon, etc. I've heard horror stories about all of them, some many times.

Working at an Orbea dealer I find that hard to believe and would like to hear the full story.

irie · 2024-11-20T20:10:30+0000

jbrown15 said:
Orbea Wild frames are manufactured and painted all in house at the factory is Spain.

Obvious question is, what about frames for other than Orbea Wild?

jbrown15 · 2024-11-20T20:14:17+0000

irie said:
Obvious question is, what about frames for other than Orbea Wild?

Every carbon frame I've seen in our store says "manufactured in Spain" that includes Rallon's and a bunch of road and gravel bikes and both alloy and carbon Rises. I know that some of the lower end alloy bikes like a Laufey are manufactured in Portugal. I have seen nothing made in China.

irie · 2024-11-20T20:18:17+0000

jbrown15 said:
Every carbon frame I've seen in our store says "manufactured in Spain" that includes Rallon's and a bunch of road and gravel bikes and both alloy and carbon Rises. I know that some of the lower end alloy bikes like a Laufey are manufactured in Portugal. I have seen nothing made in China.

Is that label on the frame or on the bike?

jbrown15 · 2024-11-20T20:19:22+0000

irie said:
Is that the label on the frame or on the bike?

On the frame where the headtube and downtube meet.

Keep in mind that you can custom pick your colors with the high end models, I placed my order Nov 11th for my 2025 Wild M10 with custom colors and finish, my bike is shipping Dec 12th. If these frames were made in China there's no chance it would be ready that fast. All of these new Vala frames were probably made a couple months ago, then shipped to Santa Cruz in California to assemble.

irie · 2024-11-20T20:23:00+0000

jbrown15 said:
On the frame where the headtube and downtube meet.

I think that means that the bike is manufactured in Spain. Individual components, such as the frame, may come from multiple different locations.

jbrown15 · 2024-11-20T20:24:17+0000

irie said:
I think that means that the bike is manufactured in Spain. Individual components, such as the frame, may come from multiple different locations.

Again, the "frame" is manufactured and painted at the factory in Spain. Not just assembled.

Doomanic · 2024-11-20T20:36:52+0000

A very quick google has revealed that the painting of MyO bikes is done in Spain, however I suspect the frames are made in Taiwan.

Doomanic · 2024-11-20T20:48:17+0000

2:40

whitymon · 2024-11-20T20:53:50+0000

I would be surprised CF would be done in EU honestly.

A bike company near me is doing like Orbea, tons of color scheme etc, but they just get the frame from Asia and they are 100% clear on that. They design, paint, assemble that's it.

jbrown15 · 2024-11-20T20:56:42+0000

whitymon said:
I would be surprised CF would be done in EU honestly.

A bike company near me is doing like Orbea, tons of color scheme etc, but they just get the frame from Asia and they are 100% clear on that. They design, paint, assemble that's it.

Maybe, all I know is they say manufactured in Spain. The carbon frames are a step up in quality over the alloy versions though. I know that first hand having cracked an alloy frame myself. But I've yet to see a failure come into our store with a carbon frame.

whitymon · 2024-11-20T21:17:57+0000

Interesting you say that, I cannot argue with what you say and your experience.

I wonder also, maybe I am wrong but as AL frame are cheaper, it tends to be used by younger people who send it harder than Dad/Grampa that can afford CF. Humor me, I might be wrong ...

I would really like also people getting that by definition an AL frame is not worst than CF, it can if the brand want it to be.

What is sad to me, is to this day some/most brand have decided that AL should be cheap frame/build and CF expensive one.

For DH, even without double crown fork, I would always go AL.

jbrown15 · 2024-11-20T21:27:25+0000

whitymon said:
Interesting you say that, I cannot argue with what you say and your experience.

I wonder also, maybe I am wrong but as AL frame are cheaper, it tends to be used by younger people who send it harder than Dad/Grampa that can afford CF. Humor me, I might be wrong ...

I would really like also people getting that by definition an AL frame is not worst than CF, it can if the brand want it to be.

What is sad to me, is to this day some/most brand have decided that AL should be cheap frame/build and CF expensive one.

For DH, even without double crown fork, I would always go AL.

Hard to say, my alloy frame was a 2022 model. I have four buddies that bought the 23-24 model from me in alloy and they all ride pretty hard and haven't had any issues. We've also not had any customers with the rear triangle alignment issues that some have.

We use to sell Santa Cruz bikes, I can't stress this enough, ALL bikes have issues. It's how the manufacture deals with them that sets them apart. For my part Orbea has always been easy to deal with on warranty claims, I suspect dealers that have issues maybe don't have a good relationship with Orbea or their local sales rep.

whitymon · 2024-11-20T21:41:39+0000

Definitely all brands have issues, the point is that some LBS are just better than other like in any kind of business.

Most of the LBS in my region only care about selling, the rest is a pain for them and honestly they struggle with it past the point of classic operations (bleed, derailleur). So my guess is that such LBS can obviously struggle to build a good case for you against a brand.

I also think that people these days, buy over Internet, which I do, and in case of issue drop the bike to the lbs and some lbs just don't like it at all and will do the minimum, exactly like in car business.

NB: that does not mean it is a generality, I hope not, but people telling stories of issue on forum are usually only telling sad/bad stories.

Example: had an issue with a wheel this summer, ask my LBS and first thing he told me: you did not buy this from me so go back to where you bought it. I said 'internet' and I literally saw `fuck you` in his mind, I had then to force him to remember I spend 2k to him few weeks ago.

I'll say it again, pick a brand that have great support where you are, and with a lbs you trust/like that will support it, before buying a price. For me time is the essence, I will have issue at some point and some brand are pristine and great to deal with, some you need to battle and I need to be out there riding.

NB: or have several bikes in your garage, I guess this is me too.

mehukatti · 2024-11-20T22:11:26+0000

To my understanding, almost all carbon frames are made in Asia - Taiwan/China/etc. Reason being that carbon layup and the whole carbon manufacturing process is human intensive and this would be way too expensive in Europe. For example Santa Cruz carbon frames are made in China in their own factory and the front and rear triangles are shipped to their California and Germany factories, where first the full frames and then bikes are assembled.

Chicane · 2024-11-21T02:49:40+0000

mehukatti said:
To my understanding, almost all carbon frames are made in Asia - Taiwan/China/etc. Reason being that carbon layup and the whole carbon manufacturing process is human intensive and this would be way too expensive in Europe. For example Santa Cruz carbon frames are made in China in their own factory and the front and rear triangles are shipped to their California and Germany factories, where first the full frames and then bikes are assembled.

Yep, just as me EIE carbon China rims were identical (down to the specs) to my NOX Farlow carbon wheels that I had several years ago. Side by side, you couldn’t tell a difference. They were made in the same mold, then shipped to NOX in Tennessee for assembly.

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