Watch out for e*thirteen cranks!

[Richridesmtb]

I had my left side crank come loose this morning on my Rise. It looks to be updated, i.e. without the seal and loctite applied.

Best to watch out for it. Anyone else had this issue on a recently delivered Rise?

 

[Gary]

Avoid EVERYTHING E13 make

 

[RustyIron]

The two clamping screws on the crank arm are what hold it in place.

 

[ebsocalmtb]

I checked my e13 cranks that came stock on my m20 before every ride initially. Then I started checking them every ride. Welp... it didn't take long before the bike spit out a crank arm after only going 2 rides without checking them in the middle of a ride of course. My LBS warrantied them and put XT cranks on and they have been rock solid since.

My wife still has the e13 cranks on her m10 while we wait for her warranty replacement cranks from our LBS. I check them before every ride and even with her novice skill at 120lbs... they are still coming loose every few rides.

I read the service bulletins, I figured I could just watch them like a hawk and I'd be ok... I was mistaken and I don't trust these things for anything.

 

[Richridesmtb]

Hey @RustyIron I know the cap is just for preload. The pic was to show damage and that it is the updated version.

I've got replacement e13 cranks coming. Will probably buy some xt though.

 

[NorthernBloke]

View attachment 83170 View attachment 83171

I had my left side crank come loose this morning on my Rise. It looks to be updated, i.e. without the seal and loctite applied.

Best to watch out for it. Anyone else had this issue on a recently delivered Rise?

This is a well known problem (search the threads), mine fell off four times before I found the solution:
apply loctite medium grip to bolts and end cap,
do not use the seal, tighten the end cap to 3-4 nM or see below
tighten bolts to 14nM carefully as the bolts are quite soft alloy
I also replaced the fixing cap with an aluminium one from Amazon and tightened to 3-4Nm.
I then had no further problems.

Orbea are replacing carbon e13 with the Shimano Steps so it might be that you are due a warranty replacement.
If not I would purchase them anyhow and retro fit them to your bike asap.

 

[Gary]

The issue is because a L/H HTII Crank arm was designed to preload HTII BB bearings AND as, such they sit snug to the bearing cap.
Using the same crank fixture design on an axle where the crank arms do not load against anything (ie. have a gap). Means every time the crank arm flexes it moves microscopically on the axle/splines. And it "walks" off the axle. Either loosening the preload cap as it does or if its plastic causing the threads to fail.
The cheap Alu preload end cap fix works on Shimano cranks for two reasons.
Firstly the threads, are stronger so it won't strip out so easily under load. And secondly the Chinese Alu preload caps are slightly bigger in diameter than shimanos so the crank arm actually grips the edge of them locking them in place when the crank arm pinch bolts are torqued.
The end cap can also safely be tightened a fair bit past the specified torque.

I found this issue and came up with the solution almost 4 years ago with the E8000 and then E7000. My first E8000 threw both its cranks really early on (back in 2017?)
Pretty sure I documented it in this forum around 3 or 4 years back. Shimano's design hasn't changed in that time. (other than slight mismatch in sizing and cosmetics for EP8 pedants)

 

[Gary]

Still avoid EVERYTHING E13 make though.

 

[steve_sordy]

Interesting article from Bike Radar.

Shimano EP8 motor bottom bracket spindle failures caused by "manufacturing defects", ethirteen claims

Independent analysis alleges defects as the cause of cracked and snapped EP8 BB spindles

www.bikeradar.com

 

[jka]

This is a well known problem (search the threads), mine fell off four times before I found the solution:
apply loctite medium grip to bolts and end cap,
do not use the seal, tighten the end cap to 3-4 nM or see below
tighten bolts to 14nM carefully as the bolts are quite soft alloy
I also replaced the fixing cap with an aluminium one from Amazon and tightened to 3-4Nm.
I then had no further problems.


I'm going on 16 months with my M10 and I've never had a problem with cranks coming loose either before or after I did the service update. Odd how some have the issue and others don't.

 

[NorthernBloke]

I haven't had any problems following the updated instruction from e13.

Orbea replaced mine under warranty claim as I had alloy when they should have been carbon when supplied.
They replaced with Shimano Steps not e13 so maybe that says something.

 

[Mikerb]

Interesting article from Bike Radar.

Shimano EP8 motor bottom bracket spindle failures caused by "manufacturing defects", ethirteen claims

Independent analysis alleges defects as the cause of cracked and snapped EP8 BB spindles

www.bikeradar.com

Yep..saw that today. For those that cannot be bothered to read the full article I think the bottom line is that Shimano state the EP8 spigot is only ISO and EN tested with Shimano cranks...and that is therefore all they recommend to fit. Whilst some here have experienced the e13 cranks coming loose, the article details instances when the spigot has snapped off when fitted with non Shimano cranks, but no recorded instances of that happening if fitted with Shimano cranks. The telltale sign of impending breakage is a hair line crack emanating from the hole drilled in the spigot ( that hole used for a locator with Shimano cranks I believe but not used by some 3rd party cranks.)

If I had a bike with EP8 motor and non Shimano cranks I know I would be getting them changed!!

 

[steve_sordy]

......................
If I had a bike with EP8 motor and non Shimano cranks I know I would be getting them changed!!

And according to the article, free of charge if you have a Commencal emtb!

 

[RustyIron]

If I had a bike with EP8 motor and non Shimano cranks I know I would be getting them changed!!

It's my understanding that the newer motors don't have a hole drilled in the shaft.

 

[Richridesmtb]

My situation is I have the updated e13 cranks, no seal, 14nm printed on them and loctite on the preload cap. The motor has the hole in the shaft.

Will probably get some shimano cranks.

 

[jim0905]

My situation is I have the updated e13 cranks, no seal, 14nm printed on them and loctite on the preload cap. The motor has the hole in the shaft.

Will probably get some shimano cranks.

You'll buy yourself some? Don't you think Orbea should be recalling all bikes and fitting shimano cranks free of charge? It says in the article that Shimano don't recommend any after market cranks so I'm amazed Orbea are fitting E13 ones after developing a motor with Shimano

 

[NorthernBloke]

You'll buy yourself some? Don't you think Orbea should be recalling all bikes and fitting shimano cranks free of charge? It says in the article that Shimano don't recommend any after market cranks so I'm amazed Orbea are fitting E13 ones after developing a motor with Shimano

Looks to me that Shimano and e13 are blaming each other and neither wants to admit it.

My personal view is that the design is a bit daft, pinching something onto a spline in my mind will always lead to the bolt flexing and moving.
In time this can cause the arm to slip and with the cap not doing much at 2Nm lead to failure. Normal crank arms are fixed to the drive with 40-50Nm and are done so the resist the strain and flex put upon them. These are held with 2x14 nM so half the torque.

Rise riders who have carbon e13 cranks (or should have had them but received alloy instead on LTD and TEAM) can get them replaced with Shimano under warranty from Orbea. They haven't communicated this to me and I had to contact them myself as others have done.

Commencal seem to be leading the way so Orbea it is time to step up and replace all cranks with Shimano

 

[jim0905]

Looks to me that Shimano and e13 are blaming each other and neither wants to admit it.

My personal view is that the design is a bit daft, pinching something onto a spline in my mind will always lead to the bolt flexing and moving.
In time this can cause the arm to slip and with the cap not doing much at 2Nm lead to failure. Normal crank arms are fixed to the drive with 40-50Nm and are done so the resist the strain and flex put upon them. These are held with 2x14 nM so half the torque.

Rise riders who have carbon e13 cranks (or should have had them but received alloy instead on LTD and TEAM) can get them replaced with Shimano under warranty from Orbea. They haven't communicated this to me and I had to contact them myself as others have done.

Commencal seem to be leading the way so Orbea it is time to step up and replace all cranks with Shimano

Yeah they're definitely blaming each other. I've always been a fan of Shimanos hollowtech system and never had a problem with it until owning a Rise. I've had the crank arm fall off and and 2 weeks back the chainring failed so I'm not feeling much love for E13 at the minute

 

[NorthernBloke]

Yeah they're definitely blaming each other. I've always been a fan of Shimanos hollowtech system and never had a problem with it until owning a Rise. I've had the crank arm fall off and and 2 weeks back the chainring failed so I'm not feeling much love for E13 at the minute

View attachment 83308

Have you replace it with Shimano?

 

[jim0905]

Have you replace it with Shimano?

No I haven't. The crank arms falling off was a known issue and I was sent out some new preload caps with a longer thread which have been fine since. Still waiting on news regarding the chainring and whether they'll warranty it. It's currently back with Tredz as I could not get the lock ring undone to remove the bit of chainring that's left

 

[Richridesmtb]

Do orbea read these forums? Maybe I should contact them.

 

[jim0905]

Do orbea read these forums? Maybe I should contact them.

I've never seen them comment on anything. I've @ them on twitter before about certain issues in the past and never had a response

 

[NorthernBloke]

Do orbea read these forums? Maybe I should contact them.

Orbea's customer service is bad imo. Especially given the premium nature of their eMTB offering.

They don't seem to want to deal with customers concerns directly or acknowledge there is a problem.

For this kind of money you are talking decent second hand car.

My wife still looks at me in disbelief on how much I spent :0)
I think I would have been divorced if I had spent £12.5k on the equivalent Spec SL.

 

[Richridesmtb]

I've had great response from my LBS and the importer, but it has only resulted in e13 replacement. I get the feeling I'll be in the same position again or worse with a broken shaft...

 

[NorthernBloke]

My local dealer has been great given I didn't buy from them.

I shall be using my Shimano cranks for the first time this weekend.
as regards the E13 alloys; I haven't had any problems once I followed the revised e13 guidance.
It does worry me that it looks like Shimano will not warranty motors/shaft unless fitted with approved cranks ie Shimano.

The big problem I think maybe the 'wear and tear' policy in Orbea T&C's

I think a bike with say 3k+ on the odometer and or 1-2 years old, they'll just turn round and say 'it's a result of use/misuse/lack of care rather admit it might have been caused initially by fitting e13 cranks'

Anyway I still love my Rise, and can't wait to get out after a month off with arm injury

 

[Obikaii]

I'm sat waiting for mine to be replaced now,outside my nearest Orbea dealer,as I bought the bike from Sigma Sports in the UK & it was way to far to go get some cranks swapped over,even this place is over an hour away.
I had to do all the leg work after receiving the letter with the bike telling me Orbea would be in touch,they never did.
I emailed them & they just passed the buck to Sigma,so I asked Sigma to send the new ones to me as I wasn't prepared to do a 350 mile round trip to sort out an issue that was none of my doing,but they wouldn't,needs to be done by an Orbea dealer.
So here I am,sat twiddling my thumbs,but at least its being sorted quickly, probably only done about 100 miles so far on the bike.
At least there was a butchers down the road that sells lovely hand made pastys.

 

[jim0905]

I'm sat waiting for mine to be replaced now,outside my nearest Orbea dealer,as I bought the bike from Sigma Sports in the UK & it was way to far to go get some cranks swapped over,even this place is over an hour away.
I had to do all the leg work after receiving the letter with the bike telling me Orbea would be in touch,they never did.
I emailed them & they just passed the buck to Sigma,so I asked Sigma to send the new ones to me as I wasn't prepared to do a 350 mile round trip to sort out an issue that was none of my doing,but they wouldn't,needs to be done by an Orbea dealer.
So here I am,sat twiddling my thumbs,but at least its being sorted quickly, probably only done about 100 miles so far on the bike.
At least there was a butchers down the road that sells lovely hand made pastys.

You're having the cranks replaced? Is that from E13 to Shimano? Who initiated that change?

 

[High Rock Ruti]

View attachment 83170 View attachment 83171



I had my left side crank come loose this morning on my Rise. It looks to be updated, i.e. without the seal and loctite applied.



Best to watch out for it. Anyone else had this issue on a recently delivered Rise?





I had my left side crank come loose this morning on my Rise. It looks to be updated, i.e. without the seal and loctite applied.



Best to watch out for it. Anyone else had this issue on a recently delivered Rise?

High Rock Ruti

Three pairs paid for E13 would not honor the warranty, leftside only, installed RaceFace not a problem.
The E13s stripped out and could not be tightened twice pedaled back with one crank arm.

Warm Regards Ruti

 

[Obikaii]

You're having the cranks replaced? Is that from E13 to Shimano? Who initiated that change?

Yeah,new shimano EM900 cranks swapped for the E thirteen alloy ones that came on the bike with the letter apologising for the fact they were not the carbon versions that the bike is specced with.
I emailed Orbea after I'd had the bike a couple of weeks to ask what the procedure was to get the replacements,they got back to me after a few days & said I should contact Sigma Sports & they would do the swap for me,turns out any Orbea dealer can do it,so I phoned up my nearest one & booked it in for today.
Back home now,just need some new Crank boots & I'm good to go.
Will test them out tomorrow,can now ride with a bit more piece of mind.

On a side note I f***ing love this bike,Total weapon,has made every trail I've riden much more fun,perfect bike for anyone wanting to get more riding done in a shorter amount of time,good fitness as well,I've come back more knackered riding the Rise than I had on my last few rides on my Bronson.

 

[Matthew-B]

Surely now that Shimano only recommend their cranks for the EP8, the e13 ones have been wrongly specified, so Orbea should replace them, that been said I've done over 1500 miles on my M20 with the E13 alloy ones with no problems, but I still feel like I'm waiting for them to fall off at some point, hopefully within warranty.