Shimano e7000 / e8000 motors longevity

[Rossco22]

Hi all , is there anything in terms of mods worth doing to help get the best life span from these motors ?
Is it normally damp / wet that kills them or are they known for other failures also ?
My main concern really i guess is water ingress side of things from winter ridding / washing .
On my Vitus e-sommet there seems to be gaps in the casings for cables entry etc so ive covered these up . i have heard of water getting in via the cranks past the bearings ? is there any way of preventing this ? Would adding a correctly sized o-ring behind the pedal arm up against the outer bearing help to eradicate some of the issue do we think ? ive just ordered some to try myself but be nice to have others thoughts / ideas ? TIA ...

 

[RickBullotta]

Hi all , is there anything in terms of mods worth doing to help get the best life span from these motors ?
Is it normally damp / wet that kills them or are they known for other failures also ?
My main concern really i guess is water ingress side of things from winter ridding / washing .
On my Vitus e-sommet there seems to be gaps in the casings for cables entry etc so ive covered these up . i have heard of water getting in via the cranks past the bearings ? is there any way of preventing this ? Would adding a correctly sized o-ring behind the pedal arm up against the outer bearing help to eradicate some of the issue do we think ? ive just ordered some to try myself but be nice to have others thoughts / ideas ? TIA ...

Don't pressure wash it, don't let road salt or other corrosive material stay on your bike too long, and go ride it often.

 

[Rossco22]

Don't pressure wash it, don't let road salt or other corrosive material stay on your bike too long, and go ride it often.

Thanks , I have if I’m honest been holding off ridding alittle it’s just been so wet & I really don’t want to wreck it , hence trying to look at ways to help / avoid issues , I don’t jet wash just carefully spray hose ! Thinking a compressor will be a good purchase next to blow away any excess water .

 

[RickBullotta]

Thanks , I have if I’m honest been holding off ridding alittle it’s just been so wet & I really don’t want to wreck it , hence trying to look at ways to help / avoid issues , I don’t jet wash just carefully spray hose ! Thinking a compressor will be a good purchase next to blow away any excess water .

A leaf blower works well also.

 

[Rossco22]

A leaf blower works well also.

Hadn’t thought of that ! Probably a lot quicker too ?

 

[Gary]

Is it normally damp / wet that kills them

Nope

or are they known for other failures

Yes. All of mine have suffered main axle bearing failure. (nothing to do with water ingress)

On my Vitus e-sommet there seems to be gaps in the casings for cables entry etc so ive covered these up

.Yes. it's worth blocking all of these gaps. Water/debris getting through this way generally only gets into the connection bay though and eventually causes display errors. Usually fairly easily fixed by simply cleaning/drying all connectors/connections. But better to prevent it getting in at all by blocking and sealing all entry points. (ie. the bay cover, above/behind connection bay)
I used a combination of motofoam, sealant and tape. and added a small mudguard/flap above the wiring nest (below the shock).
all documented somewhere in the Vitus forum if you search my user name there. And no longer get any water inside mine.

i have heard of water getting in via the cranks past the bearings ?

Have you?
Are you sure?
The only way water is getting BEHIND the E8000 bearings is if it's forced directly into the bearings/motor. ie. high power hose/jetwash

Would adding a correctly sized o-ring behind the pedal arm up against the outer bearing help to eradicate some of the issue do we think ?

No. I can't see this helping at all. The bearings are behind the case. and in order for a seal to work where you suggest it's need to be formed to fit perfectly (rather than a generic rubber o-ring) Adding a large enough rubber O-ring that it'd be sanfwiched between the crank arm and case would cause drag.
a foam ring would be better in this respect. (but I doubt it'd do much at all except for when washing the bike)

You don't say what motor you have. some E-sommets had the E7000 but most use the E8000
Personally i'd steer well clear of the E7000 motor. Durability of mine (E-sentier set-up for commuting) was a complete joke. (700 mainly dry commuting miles to destruction)

 

[RickBullotta]

Nope
Yes. All of mine have suffered main axle bearing failure. (nothing to do with water ingress)
.Yes. it's worth blocking all of these gaps. Water/debris getting through this way generally only gets into the connection bay though and eventually causes display errors. Usually fairly easily fixed by simply cleaning/drying all connectors/connections. But better to prevent it getting in at all by blocking and sealing all entry points. (ie. the bay cover, above/behind connection bay)
I used a combination of motofoam, sealant and tape. and added a small mudguard/flap above the wiring nest (below the shock).
all documented somewhere in the Vitus forum if you search my user name there. And no longer get any water inside mine.

Have you?
Are you sure?
The only way water is getting BEHIND the E8000 bearings is if it's forced directly into the bearings/motor. ie. high power hose/jetwash
No. I can't see this helping at all. The bearings are behind the case. and in order for a seal to work where you suggest it's need to be formed to fit perfectly (rather than a generic rubber o-ring) Adding a large enough rubber O-ring that it'd be sanfwiched between the crank arm and case would cause drag.
a foam ring would be better in this respect. (but I doubt it'd do much at all except for when washing the bike)

You don't say what motor you have. some E-sommets had the E7000 but most use the E8000
Personally i'd steer well clear of the E7000 motor. Durability of mine (E-sentier set-up for commuting) was a complete joke. (700 mainly dry commuting miles to destruction)

personally I wouldn’t seal mine. I have to assume vent holes are there for a reason, likely heat and also in case any moisture gets in there such as condensation.

 

[Rossco22]

Nope
Yes. All of mine have suffered main axle bearing failure. (nothing to do with water ingress)
.Yes. it's worth blocking all of these gaps. Water/debris getting through this way generally only gets into the connection bay though and eventually causes display errors. Usually fairly easily fixed by simply cleaning/drying all connectors/connections. But better to prevent it getting in at all by blocking and sealing all entry points. (ie. the bay cover, above/behind connection bay)
I used a combination of motofoam, sealant and tape. and added a small mudguard/flap above the wiring nest (below the shock).
all documented somewhere in the Vitus forum if you search my user name there. And no longer get any water inside mine.

Have you?
Are you sure?
The only way water is getting BEHIND the E8000 bearings is if it's forced directly into the bearings/motor. ie. high power hose/jetwash
No. I can't see this helping at all. The bearings are behind the case. and in order for a seal to work where you suggest it's need to be formed to fit perfectly (rather than a generic rubber o-ring) Adding a large enough rubber O-ring that it'd be sanfwiched between the crank arm and case would cause drag.
a foam ring would be better in this respect. (but I doubt it'd do much at all except for when washing the bike)

You don't say what motor you have. some E-sommets had the E7000 but most use the E8000
Personally i'd steer well clear of the E7000 motor. Durability of mine (E-sentier set-up for commuting) was a complete joke. (700 mainly dry commuting miles to destruction)

Thanks for your input Gary ! Im trying to learn as much as i can about them as i go !
You say all of yours have suffered main axle bearing failure ? How many motors have you had lol ? Can the bearings be changed or is that the end of the line when that type of failure happens ? so is 700 miles about the expected life span for the 7000 ? Mines a 2019 standard e-sommet with the 7000 series motor which has covered about 300 miles so far .
Ive obviously misinterpreted what id read in terms of water getting in through the crank bearings so if thats not the issue then i wont bother going down the o-ring route . Do the 8000 motors not suffer from with main bearing issues then ?

 

[Gary]

personally I wouldn’t seal mine. I have to assume vent holes are there for a reason, likely heat and also in case any moisture gets in there such as condensation.

They're not vent holes.
I assume you don't have a Vitus (being in the US)
Also Motofoam isn't an airtight seal

 

[Gary]

You say all of yours have suffered main axle bearing failure ? How many motors have you had lol ?

7

Can the bearings be changed or is that the end of the line when that type of failure happens ?

Not without voiding warranty. no.
The entire motor is a disposible item. (AFAshimanoIC)

so is 700 miles about the expected life span for the 7000 ? Mines a 2019 standard e-sommet with the 7000 series motor which has covered about 300 miles so far .

There's no such thing as "expected lifespan". I'm simply telling you my experience of the E7000. I wouldn't touch another.

Do the 8000 motors not suffer from with main bearing issues then ?

what makes you say that?
ALL of my E8000 motors have suffered from main bearing wear. it starts as slight play, begins creaking and eventually becomes hellish knocking, creaking and play.

 

[steve_sordy]

@Rossco22 Dont get your knickers in a twist.

Gary may deny it of course, but he is an extreme example (he probably sees what he does as normal - it is for him). From the few videos I've seen of him in action and the many posts I've read, he rides his bikes hard. I don't mean that he abuses them or neglects them in any way. Quite the reverse, I'm sure that he cleans and lubes in a manner that exceeds best practice. But despite this he can knacker a motor in 700 miles. I'm sure there are other examples on other bikes, but I can't be arsed to search through the Forum for them. Gary rides fast (wayyyyy faster than me) and jumps high and often (ditto). Which is probably why I haven't had any problems with my motor in almost one year. I guess that puts me at the wimpy (more typical?) end of the mtb scale, but I don't care!

 

[Rossco22]

7

Not without voiding warranty. no.
The entire motor is a disposible item. (AFAshimanoIC)

Oh really !! Crumbs it sounds as though there design is quite flawed ! Im worried now haha atleast mines still in warranty although id hate to loose it to the shop for a considerable length of time whilst they sorted out a replacement.

There's no such thing as "expected lifespan". I'm simply telling you my experience of the E7000. I wouldn't touch another.

And i appreciate it , you've obviously had more experience with these motors than most !


what makes you say that?
ALL of my E8000 motors have suffered from main bearing wear. it starts as slight play, begins creaking and eventually becomes hellish knocking, creaking and play.

7

Id presumed Shimano had addressed the issue with the 8000 series if it was a known fault with its predecessor ? So you say it starts as slight play , this is felt through the pedal arm is it ? then creaking under load till the point of the knocking ? shall be keeping a close eye on this .

Not without voiding warranty. no.
The entire motor is a disposible item. (AFAshimanoIC)

There's no such thing as "expected lifespan". I'm simply telling you my experience of the E7000. I wouldn't touch another.


what makes you say that?
ALL of my E8000 motors have suffered from main bearing wear. it starts as slight play, begins creaking and eventually becomes hellish knocking, creaking and play.

 

[Rossco22]

7

Not without voiding warranty. no.
The entire motor is a disposible item. (AFAshimanoIC)

There's no such thing as "expected lifespan". I'm simply telling you my experience of the E7000. I wouldn't touch another.


what makes you say that?
ALL of my E8000 motors have suffered from main bearing wear. it starts as slight play, begins creaking and eventually becomes hellish knocking, creaking and play.

Out of interest are you still ridding a Shimano powered bike now or have you given up with them & thrown in the towel ?

 

[Gary]

Still have an E-sommet (E8000 motor)
It's not really just a shimano issue. No emtb motors are truely durable.

 

[Rossco22]

@Rossco22 Dont get your knickers in a twist.

Gary may deny it of course, but he is an extreme example (he probably sees what he does as normal - it is for him). From the few videos I've seen of him in action and the many posts I've read, he rides his bikes hard. I don't mean that he abuses them or neglects them in any way. Quite the reverse, I'm sure that he cleans and lubes in a manner that exceeds best practice. But despite this he can knacker a motor in 700 miles. I'm sure there are other examples on other bikes, but I can't be arsed to search through the Forum for them. Gary rides fast (wayyyyy faster than me) and jumps high and often (ditto). Which is probably why I haven't had any problems with my motor in almost one year. I guess that puts me at the wimpy (more typical?) end of the mtb scale, but I don't care!

Im defo not one thats going to be setting any speed or jump records but i do like to feel confident with a product & its longevity especially at this price point and i know these e-sommets are good value in the ebike world for the spec you get but there still alot of money in my eyes haha
Wondering if i should have gone down the specialized route although i know even less about them having only recently arrived on the emtb scene im playing catch up abit..

 

[Rossco22]

Still have an E-sommet (E8000 motor)
It's not really just a shimano issue. No emtb motors are truely durable.

Do you just keep your bikes till the warranty runs out and then sell them on ?? or have you a source for sensibly priced replacement motors or something ?

 

[Gary]

Motor warranty is 2 years

 

[Rossco22]

Motor warranty is 2 years

Have you had the 7 replacements all under warranty then ? They must love you if thats the case haha

 

[Gary]

Who's "they"?
It's me who has the right to be pissed off with shitty motors frequently needing replaced.
it's what a warranty is for

 

[Rossco22]

For sure , and that’s a lot of down time whilst motors are being inspected / replaced !
Have you just gone back through your Lbs for the warranty work or Dealt with Shimano directly yourself ?

 

[Gary]

that’s a lot of down time

As would having me type out each and every detail of my warranty experiences.

Steve's advice above on how to deal with your knickers seems way more relevant.

Enjoy the bike until it breaks. Then worry about warranty/downtime. not the other way around!

 

[Rossco22]

As would having me type out each and every detail of my warranty experiences.

Steve's advice above on how to deal with your knickers seems way more relevant.

Enjoy the bike until it breaks. Then worry about warranty/downtime. not the other way around!

Just nice to be forewarned that’s all !

 

[cabbynate]

@Rossco22 Dont get

I guess that puts me at the wimpy (more typical?) end of the mtb scale, but I don't care!

I think for the most part you are right with this statement and it goes for most of us. Most of the hardcore riders ride analog bikes and the hardcore riders that do ride ebikes, (Sam Pilgram and the like..) are sponsored and don't tell us how many motors they go through.

 

[urastus]

I think for the most part you are right with this statement and it goes for most of us. Most of the hardcore riders ride analog bikes and the hardcore riders that do ride ebikes, (Sam Pilgram and the like..) are sponsored and don't tell us how many motors they go through.

Yes, I never knew this before buying. It's a lot of money and I hate dealing with warranty anything. While people keep covering it up, or making excuses for the manufacturers, that's essentially telling the manufacturers to keep doing what they're doing. I don't think it's good enough. I would have bought a new acoustic until these e systems were more reliable. Now that I have my bike, of course I'm going to ride it as much as possible and enjoy it. That's the other thing with knowing the limited reliability - it emphasises using your bike as much as possible within the first two years. I actually don't mind still riding my acoustics, but only do so when the emtb is down. I'm not sure I'd take my emtb to NZ for example - I just don't trust it and would hate to be there without a bike. I think I'd take my old acoustic.

 

[steve_sordy]

@Rossco22 I should have said this earlier, to give you some confidence in the Shimano e8000 motor. I have now ridden over 1600 miles on mine, and gone through two British winters, both wet and gritty. I have not had a single problem with the motor. I removed the guard a few weeks ago and there was nothing in there but dust. OK, it may have been some mud originally, but even so it had not caused a problem.

I wonder to what extent the bike the motor is attached to has a bearing upon how well the motor is protected?

My bike is a Focus Jam2, it has vent holes and they all point backwards. I don't park the bike in deep water, I do try to ride through big puddles at a brisk pace, I don't use a hose let alone a jet wash - just a bucket of water and a watering can.

 

[urastus]

@Rossco22 I should have said this earlier, to give you some confidence in the Shimano e8000 motor. I have now ridden over 1600 miles on mine, and gone through two British winters, both wet and gritty. I have not had a single problem with the motor. I removed the guard a few weeks ago and there was nothing in there but dust. OK, it may have been some mud originally, but even so it had not caused a problem.

I wonder to what extent the bike the motor is attached to has a bearing upon how well the motor is protected?

My bike is a Focus Jam2, it has vent holes and they all point backwards. I don't park the bike in deep water, I do try to ride through big puddles at a brisk pace, I don't use a hose let alone a jet wash - just a bucket of water and a watering can.

Yeah, I don't know how you guys do it I was caught in rain, and the deep dust turned to mud; it was still no where near as bad as some videos of wet muddy rides I've seen in the UK. Too much work afterwards just getting the bike back to reasonable condition. And it removed all the wax from my chain (internally) - it's the first time that's ever happened since I started waxing my chains a few months ago. If I lived in the UK, I'd be bushwalking through your winters and riding when the weather was more reasonable . You dudes are tough and committed (or should be committed ). That sort of use is definitely more grinding and wearing on machinery.

 

[steve_sordy]

........... That sort of use is definitely more grinding and wearing on machinery.

The nearest trail to me is built on sand. On wet winter rides, all you can hear is a wet scraping/grinding noise as the sand in the brakes and the gears and the chain all get friendly with each other.

I met a guy on Monday who was complaining of the same thing. But the trails were slightly damp and firm, with no loose water at all, so how could this be? I looked at his chain and it was like a black tarry rope! His gears were covered in a similar substance and everything was covered in sandy particles.He looked at my sparkling clean transmission that had no sand on it at all and asked me how? I advised a deep clean and to apply some wet lube - sparingly! He had been liberally applying oil from an old fashioned oil can, thinking it was protecting his kit.

 

[urastus]

The nearest trail to me is built on sand. On wet winter rides, all you can hear is a wet scraping/grinding noise as the sand in the brakes and the gears and the chain all get friendly with each other.

I met a guy on Monday who was complaining of the same thing. But the trails were slightly damp and firm, with no loose water at all, so how could this be? I looked at his chain and it was like a black tarry rope! His gears were covered in a similar substance and everything was covered in sandy particles.He looked at my sparkling clean transmission that had no sand on it at all and asked me how? I advised a deep clean and to apply some wet lube - sparingly! He had been liberally applying oil from an old fashioned oil can, thinking it was protecting his kit.

Yeah, I used to do what you do, but probably more anal. A tiny drop between each of the side plates, and a drop on the edge of the roller to seep into the pin. Once I'd gone around the chain, I'd run the chain through a rag barely damp with kerosene to remove the oil from the outside of the chain. I've since discovered wax, which is truly awesome and saves me several hours easily. The only downside is if it's wet, like chain dripping wet, the wax just disappears. For where I ride though, it's generally tacky this time of year or dry. Then after winter and spring it's just dust. If I was riding in water, I'd probably just stop riding now till it was dry

 

[AussieBikeBoy]

@Rossco22 I should have said this earlier, to give you some confidence in the Shimano e8000 motor. I have now ridden over 1600 miles on mine, and gone through two British winters, both wet and gritty. I have not had a single problem with the motor. I removed the guard a few weeks ago and there was nothing in there but dust. OK, it may have been some mud originally, but even so it had not caused a problem.

I wonder to what extent the bike the motor is attached to has a bearing upon how well the motor is protected?

My bike is a Focus Jam2, it has vent holes and they all point backwards. I don't park the bike in deep water, I do try to ride through big puddles at a brisk pace, I don't use a hose let alone a jet wash - just a bucket of water and a watering can.

I've just had the motor replaced on my Merida eOne Twenty 500. It had done 21,308km at the time of replacement. 80% of my riding is commuting on road. With the other 20% off road, dirt trails and gravel roads. It was only making a grinding noise under load but was fine on the flat.

 

[MrBrownstone]

Thanks , I have if I’m honest been holding off ridding alittle it’s just been so wet & I really don’t want to wreck it , hence trying to look at ways to help / avoid issues , I don’t jet wash just carefully spray hose ! Thinking a compressor will be a good purchase next to blow away any excess water .

don’t use hose, compressor or leafblower. Those could force whatever yer trying to clean off into places where you really don’t want it to go. Let bike dry on its own the brush dirt and debris off. I use a simple broom.