YT Decoy NOT Serviceable by Shimano and YT Customer Service Fail

[Jedipip]

Tragically bad news for us YT ‘believers’.

My faultless (until this) and superb 6 month old 1000 mile Decoy went to my LBS (Shimano approved) to diagnose an electrical motor issue in December 2020, speedo jumping to 20mph+ motor cutting out, then kicking in when speed dropped. Unrideable on any hills. Shimano UK got involved as LBS couldn’t diagnose from their software (see from about 19m in Rob’s video, this was my first little worry!). Shimano UK (Madison) did some over-the-phone and internet diagnostics with the LBS plugging the motor and software in directly to their computer and said the motor is at fault, send it to them. So we did. New motor supplied, Shimano asked YT for codes to sync battery, motor and bike. YT refused, despite Shimano UK protestations.

That’s correct. Zero Shimano capability to get the Shimano approved YT battery to work with a brand new E8000 motor. YT wanted the whole bike shipping back to Germany. YT emails have repeatedly stated to me that they DO NOT share any codes with third parties. Shimano are deemed a third party by YT!

YT box used by my LBS, YT postage and courier used, everything was sent to YT in January 2020, 1 month off the trails. Then a long silent wait.

March 8th 2020 YT send my LBS an email saying the frame is damaged and they are certain it was during the courier stage.



YT state that the frame is not deemed safe to use and it will cost the customer £1200 for a replacement frame.

Numerous emails, zero escalation within YT, total refusal to copy Markus or Stefan in to the issue and a point blank closing down on any questions regarding why it took 7 weeks to inform of the frame issue, nothing regarding the battery/motor issue. No proof of receipt of bike or contact/photos of the frame, box, damage or courier notes.

Deadlock was reached on Thursday this week (11th March 2020). Despite being overly patient and incredibly polite there is nothing, no goodwill (it’s my second YT bike). Nothing resembling customer service or bike electrical serviceability away from YT exists and I am left with a bike that has cost me £5 per mile to ride, I’ve ridden it for 6 months out of 9 and it is now, according to YT, scrap.

I’ve sent a direct message to Markus the CEO, Shimano UK are escalating within Shimano, the LBS is offering a Trek Rail in exchange for the scrap Decoy. This is why I was using the LBS, they need the business, even if it’s just handling diagnosis and tweaking. I did remind YT Service that the entire brand depends on its warranty and customer experience and that social media is no friend to a business model when it fails in customer service. That email resulted in a very strict response simply stating ‘if you don’t want to pay for the new frame we shall pack the bike up and send it back’. I’m not even sure the frame will arrive in one piece! It wouldn’t be sensible to send a customer a defective frame back would it?

Anyone got any ideas,? anyone in a position to ‘have a word’?

Anyone want a 6 month old Decoy Pro in black with a brand new motor and no frame?

I’m going to be a social media troll on any YT Decoy post if this sorry tale ends as it looks like it could.

One photo from YT that really helps me out!

 

[Fx1]

Tragically bad news for us YT ‘believers’.

My faultless (until this) and superb 6 month old 1000 mile Decoy went to my LBS (Shimano approved) to diagnose an electrical motor issue in December 2020, speedo jumping to 20mph+ motor cutting out, then kicking in when speed dropped. Unrideable on any hills. Shimano UK got involved as LBS couldn’t diagnose from their software (see from about 19m in Rob’s video, this was my first little worry!). Shimano UK (Madison) did some over-the-phone and internet diagnostics with the LBS plugging the motor and software in directly to their computer and said the motor is at fault, send it to them. So we did. New motor supplied, Shimano asked YT for codes to sync battery, motor and bike. YT refused, despite Shimano UK protestations.

That’s correct. Zero Shimano capability to get the Shimano approved YT battery to work with a brand new E8000 motor. YT wanted the whole bike shipping back to Germany. YT emails have repeatedly stated to me that they DO NOT share any codes with third parties. Shimano are deemed a third party by YT!

YT box used by my LBS, YT postage and courier used, everything was sent to YT in January 2020, 1 month off the trails. Then a long silent wait.

March 8th 2020 YT send my LBS an email saying the frame is damaged and they are certain it was during the courier stage.

YT state that the f View attachment 27373 rame is not deemed safe to use and it will cost the customer £1200 for a replacement frame.

Numerous emails, zero escalation within YT, total refusal to copy Markus or Stefan in to the issue and a point blank closing down on any questions regarding why it took 7 weeks to inform of the frame issue, nothing regarding the battery/motor issue. No proof of receipt of bike or contact/photos of the frame, box, damage or courier notes.

Deadlock was reached on Thursday this week (11th March 2020). Despite being overly patient and incredibly polite there is nothing, no goodwill (it’s my second YT bike). Nothing resembling customer service or bike electrical serviceability away from YT exists and I am left with a bike that has cost me £5 per mile to ride, I’ve ridden it for 6 months out of 9 and it is now, according to YT, scrap.

I’ve sent a direct message to Markus the CEO, Shimano UK are escalating within Shimano, the LBS is offering a Trek Rail in exchange for the scrap Decoy. This is why I was using the LBS, they need the business, even if it’s just handling diagnosis and tweaking. I did remind YT Service that the entire brand depends on its warranty and customer experience and that social media is no friend to a business model when it fails in customer service. That email resulted in a very strict response simply stating ‘if you don’t want to pay for the new frame we shall pack the bike up and send it back’. I’m not even sure the frame will arrive in one piece! It wouldn’t be sensible to send a customer a defective frame back would it?

Anyone got any ideas,? anyone in a position to ‘have a word’?

Anyone want a 6 month old Decoy Pro in black with a brand new motor and no frame?

I’m going to be a social media troll on any YT Decoy post if this sorry tale ends as it looks like it could.

One photo from YT that really helps me out!

Did you pay by credit card or on finance?

 

[khorn]

What a horror story!!

I would immediately take legal action towards YT and spam the Internet with your story - What a total shitty company.....

Good luck

Karsten

 

[minizoom]

Tragically bad news for us YT ‘believers’.

My faultless (until this) and superb 6 month old 1000 mile Decoy went to my LBS (Shimano approved) to diagnose an electrical motor issue in December 2020, speedo jumping to 20mph+ motor cutting out, then kicking in when speed dropped. Unrideable on any hills. Shimano UK got involved as LBS couldn’t diagnose from their software (see from about 19m in Rob’s video, this was my first little worry!). Shimano UK (Madison) did some over-the-phone and internet diagnostics with the LBS plugging the motor and software in directly to their computer and said the motor is at fault, send it to them. So we did. New motor supplied, Shimano asked YT for codes to sync battery, motor and bike. YT refused, despite Shimano UK protestations.

That’s correct. Zero Shimano capability to get the Shimano approved YT battery to work with a brand new E8000 motor. YT wanted the whole bike shipping back to Germany. YT emails have repeatedly stated to me that they DO NOT share any codes with third parties. Shimano are deemed a third party by YT!

YT box used by my LBS, YT postage and courier used, everything was sent to YT in January 2020, 1 month off the trails. Then a long silent wait.

March 8th 2020 YT send my LBS an email saying the frame is damaged and they are certain it was during the courier stage.

YT state that the f View attachment 27373 rame is not deemed safe to use and it will cost the customer £1200 for a replacement frame.

Numerous emails, zero escalation within YT, total refusal to copy Markus or Stefan in to the issue and a point blank closing down on any questions regarding why it took 7 weeks to inform of the frame issue, nothing regarding the battery/motor issue. No proof of receipt of bike or contact/photos of the frame, box, damage or courier notes.

Deadlock was reached on Thursday this week (11th March 2020). Despite being overly patient and incredibly polite there is nothing, no goodwill (it’s my second YT bike). Nothing resembling customer service or bike electrical serviceability away from YT exists and I am left with a bike that has cost me £5 per mile to ride, I’ve ridden it for 6 months out of 9 and it is now, according to YT, scrap.

I’ve sent a direct message to Markus the CEO, Shimano UK are escalating within Shimano, the LBS is offering a Trek Rail in exchange for the scrap Decoy. This is why I was using the LBS, they need the business, even if it’s just handling diagnosis and tweaking. I did remind YT Service that the entire brand depends on its warranty and customer experience and that social media is no friend to a business model when it fails in customer service. That email resulted in a very strict response simply stating ‘if you don’t want to pay for the new frame we shall pack the bike up and send it back’. I’m not even sure the frame will arrive in one piece! It wouldn’t be sensible to send a customer a defective frame back would it?

Anyone got any ideas,? anyone in a position to ‘have a word’?

Anyone want a 6 month old Decoy Pro in black with a brand new motor and no frame?

I’m going to be a social media troll on any YT Decoy post if this sorry tale ends as it looks like it could.

One photo from YT that really helps me out!

I'm glad I went with another brand even though I hear YT USA has great customer service. This is what concerned me about direct sales brand. YT battery is proprietary and that worried me for the future. I keep my bikes for a long time.

 

[Jedipip]

Did you pay by credit card or on finance?

Bank transfer - a year ago. Sadly. But not surprising given it was £5k.

It was a beautiful thing for 6 months. Then a very messy divorce.

 

[Jedipip]

I'm glad I went with another brand even though I hear YT USA has great customer service. This is what concerned me about direct sales brand. YT battery is proprietary and that worried me for the future. I keep my bikes for a long time.

In the UK we just don’t have any YT presence. I’m only a short flight over to Germany though. I’ll resort to that but have no doubt I’ll not get past security.

Social media and Shimano in support of the little customer is quite a powerful thing though. I’m nothing if not reasonable, but after 3 months and a bike frame horror story it’ll take Markus the CEO intervening to get me back on side.

 

[Doomanic]

Can you claim against the courier?

 

[Jedipip]

Can you claim against the courier?

YT giving no details when asked. Nothing!

‘Pay for a new frame or we ship it back’ and ‘we can’t approve the use of the frame’.

Simply spectacular!

 

[b45her]

All the direct brands are the same, once they have your money their email system immediately stops working. that wang industries battery YT uses was always going to be a massive issue.

I've worked on tons of YT bikes and nearly all have been total shite in the build quality and tolerances department.

 

[routrax]

Take the Rail.
I don't imagine you'll get it sorted anytime soon with the current global pandemic.

 

[Fx1]

Did you pay by credit card or on finance?

Bank transfer - a year ago. Sadly. But not surprising given it was £5k.

It was a beautiful thing for 6 months. Then a very messy divorce.

Bank transfer.... quite possibly the worst possible way to pay for anything ever.

When ever you post anything valuable also photo its condition and how you packed it. Couriers are terrible.

Is there a reason why YT couldnt just post you a motor and you return the motor? Seems excessive to send the frame too given its value.

I have done some research for you. You can sue YT in English court as the example given on the gov.uk website says that it's the location of the place of delivery. They use a french vendor of a motorbike being delivered to england.

I'd write to YT and state that you intend to take action in english court to recover the full value of the bike. This is your one and only chance required by law to rectify the situation and you have 7 days to respond. Failure to respond or agree will result in court documents being filed. (This is pretty easy) and the full sum being recovered.

Then see what happens..

Always pay £101 on credit card for any valuable item.

 

[steve_sordy]

What a horror story!

 

[Gary]

This any help?

This startup lets you send a box of shit to people you hate using bitcoin so you don't get caught - Startup Daily

 

[Punisher]

Sad. But legal point of view, YT assume the warranty. Not Shimano or whatever. So you have to respect their process. If you dont, issue become your.
I had an issue with my Pro Race 3 months ago. Motor dead. Bike was sent back. I call them every week. And they just answer they haven't start to look my bike. The customer service is bad. But as I respect their process, I could start legal action to get a compensation.

 

[Fx1]

Sad. But legal point of view, YT assume the warranty. Not Shimano or whatever. So you have to respect their process. If you dont, issue become your.
I had an issue with my Pro Race 3 months ago. Motor dead. Bike was sent back. I call them every week. And they just answer they haven't start to look my bike. The customer service is bad. But as I respect their process, I could start legal action to get a compensation.

3 months?

I'd have started legal action 2 months and 2 weeks ago.

You dont have to respect any process. They have to respect the contract you entered when you purchased the bike.

Ask nicely. Then when they dont act. You take them to task. Court documents landing on their lap is usually a good motivator. They get 30 days to respond so usually they fix the problem.

 

[Punisher]

3 months?
You dont have to respect any process. They have to respect the contract you entered when you purchased the bike.

Send back a defect product to the seller is a the classic legal way. This is the "process".
And I will not start legal action except if the situation became not professional and I am sure to win it. Now, I am.

 

[R120]

I dont see how Shimano can agree to see them their system, and YT expect back up from them, unless YT make the required information available back to Shimano - if I was Shimano and saw this kind of behaviour I would be telling YT that they can get stuffed with using their motors from now on - Shimano UK via Madison are generally very helpful, but I guess escalating it within Shimano to get someone who has clout to take it up with YT may be an issue.

I dont know if he still holds the job, but a guy called Mark Greshon heads up the UK side of the Steps programme at Madison. This is an email address that used to get straight though to the steps department , but again dont know if it still works:

[email protected]

 

[Fx1]

Sounds like a crazy stupid situation all caused by some code that is needed to make the battery work. Totally negates having a shimano motor.

 

[Slowroller]

I'm still not sure how if the carrier damaged your bike when returning it to them for warranty work, they are holding you liable for it? Do they want you to make a claim with the carrier? They're not being helpful there either

 

[R120]

Its not the first time we have seen this happen though with bikes running the steps motor with a 3rd party battery, as Shimano dont supply the battery it adds complexity to when you need to find a fault.

 

[Fx1]

Its not the first time we have seen this happen though with bikes running the steps motor with a 3rd party battery, as Shimano dont supply the battery it adds complexity to when you need to find a fault.

It shouldn't make any difference really. If they want to make life hard for their customers then they soon wont have any.

 

[R120]

You mean Shimano or the Bike brands?

Shimano in my experience are always keen to try and help, the problem comes if the bike brand doesn't play ball.

This has happened to a few Focus owners where they have had to be reliant on Focus rather than Shimano, and irrespective of the bike brand if you cant make full use of Shimano's local service centres it makes claiming at point of sale that you can a load of BS.

From recollection when I had my motors warrantied the LBS had to go through a set series of checks of each element of the system to eliminate problems that could be fixed at the LBS , before the motor gets sent off. A key one is checking the battery isn't the issue

This is the note that went off with my motor, that I did for my friendly LBS as I did all the checks myself, but the warranty had to go through an LBS with a Madison Account. Its a pretty accurate description of the on site test an LBS should do.

 

[Fx1]

You mean Shimano or the Bike brands?

Shimano in my experience are always keen to try and help, the problem comes if the bike brand doesn't play ball.

This has happened to a few Focus owners where they have had to be reliant on Focus rather than Shimano, and irrespective of the bike brand if you cant make full use of Shimano's local service centres it makes claiming at point of sale that you can a load of BS.

From recollection when I had my motors warrantied the LBS had to go through a set series of checks of each element of the system to eliminate problems that could be fixed at the LBS , before the motor gets sent off. A key one is checking the battery isn't the issue

This is the note that went off with my motor, that I did for my friendly LBS as I did all the checks myself, but the warranty had to go through an LBS with a Madison Account. Its a pretty accurate description of the on site test an LBS should do.

View attachment 27392

Bike brand. The contract isnt with shimano but the parts do have their own warranty I think. Either way this situation is avoidable if someone at YT has any brains.

 

[Mikerb]

Not sure from your photo what part of the frame is damaged but, without trying to resolve from a legal point of view, could not that damage be repaired by a competent ally welder?

 

[dobbyhasfriends]

damn.... I was seriously considering a YT or Canyon for my next bike simply because of the insane value for money but... there's no way they could ever match the customer service ive had as a spesh owner... really sorry to read this mate, hope you get it sorted

 

[Rich the gasman]

I had 3 YT Capra frames, all cracked. They lost my Bos shock, and forks went away for service and disapeared while at YT. I got a full refund after 9 month.

 

[Mikerb]

Not sure from your photo what part of the frame is damaged but, without trying to resolve from a legal point of view, could not that damage be repaired by a competent ally welder?

...without not...that should have read

 

[Fx1]

Not sure from your photo what part of the frame is damaged but, without trying to resolve from a legal point of view, could not that damage be repaired by a competent ally welder?

Its carbon.

 

[Gary]

yeah, a far easier repair

 

[Fx1]

yeah, a far easier repair

It likely wouldn't fail there anyway but that is not the point I suppose.

Nobody knows how it was transported or how well packaged. If it was dropped by YT or damaged by courier. 7 weeks is insane and it's their liability in more ways than one.

YT issues

Should never accept a package with damage.
Should not need to send frame back for motor problem
Should have allowed shimano to sort issue
Should not have taken 7 weeks to inform.
Should not require stupid code for battery to work.

Customers issues

Should not pay by bank transfer. (Seriously who does this)
Should always photo expensive items condition before posting.
Should ensure item is very well packaged when it's worth thousands of pounds.
Should have just sent the motor and not the frame (if possible)

This is the sort of problem that has to go legal. Unless they realise it's bad press and resolve it. Be interesting to see how this plays out.